[Kwisatz]

Remember, what you read online is not who she is, it's who she wants people who do not know her personally to believe she is. We can all curate and create a detailed, finely honed image online.

[lawliesugar]

(09-15-2017 05:48 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 03:20 PM)lawliesugar Wrote:  

I think I'm beginning to see that my original question was a symptom of why I'm not successful with girls, not the root issue. The harsh truth that came out of this reflection was that I didn't feel high status with certain type of girls so I needed to stalk them to gain leverage.

While gathering intel is not a bad thing, channeling low status behaviors is a one-way ticket to blue-balls land. The thing is that I'm fairly well-versed with the whole cultivating high status literature and movement. As the saying goes, it's one thing to know, but another to truly internalize.

I'm fairly comfortable with 6s and even 7s who, for whatever reason I find inferior to me. But it's the leap to 8s that I find myself struggling with. Would appreciate any insight from those who have faced and triumphed over this "next-level plateau" dilemma.

This was my experience, basically...

When I first started out, I didn't even try for the 8s. I spent a lot of time gathering intel, and sending thoughtful well tailored messages over OkCupid, hoping to get a date with a 6.

Then, when I'd finally go on a date (with a 6), much of the conversation would be about me trying to qualify myself to her. "I'm a lawyer, I do all this cool stuff, I drive a cool car, I go to cool concerts, I travel, and people generally think I'm cool." Basically, trying to slip in "cool stuff" any time that I could. I would also try and do the same thing you're doing and inject stuff from her Facebook, or be like "I saw on your profile that you went Greece. That seemed so cool!" It usually failed.

Gradually I got better at it, and wouldn't even bother to read profiles. I'd send out canned messages to any decent looking girls and try and line up in person dates. No need to look at the profile, just find a canned message and send it out to like 50 chicks.

Once the dates came, the key was to become a person of higher value.

Over time, I've found that the secret recipe is this...

- Be a bit mysterious. "What do you do for a living?" "I'm a fighter pilot." "Really?" "Really." "Are you serious?" [change of subject] I don't let her know what I do for a living for awhile into the conversation, if at all. You must keep your frame with this - no matter how hard she tries to get you to give her a straight answer, don't. "Why do you keep changing the subject?" "Because what you're asking me about is boring. Let's talk about something interesting. Like punk rock." (said with a smirk)

- Similarly, stop talking about yourself so much. A big mistake I made was waiting for an opening in the conversation to tell her how cool I am. "Oh, you traveled to Greece? Well I traveled to Thailand and did blah blah blah." If you're talking about yourself too much, you're basically trying to qualify yourself to her. Instead, send the message (subtly) that you're trying to glean enough information to determine whether she's worthy of you.

- Issue commands. "Tell me more about that." "Grab me a drink while you're up." "Do a shot with me." "Hand me a napkin." "Let's get out of here." If she balks, don't back down, instead act like she's weird for not doing it. It puts her on the spot.

- Pregnant pauses. A lot of times when there is a gap in a conversation, you'll rush to try and fill it in so it's not awkward. Let her fill in the pregnant pauses. Otherwise it seems like you're desperate to keep the conversation going. Make her put in the effort to keep the conversation going with you.

- If you're out at a restaurant or bar, game the staff a little bit. Be polite, charming, and charismatic. "Server: Hi, I'm Melanie and I'll be taking care of you tonight." "Hi Melanie. Darling, let me ask you this question. If this were my last meal on Earth tonight, what would you tell me to order?" Bring the server / bartender in as though they were your wing (without being overbearing or annoying). Do not ever be rude to a server or bartender.

- Similarly, if you're out with a group of people, same rules apply. Be charming and charismatic with her friends, like they're all part of an inside joke. Keep in control of the conversation by being interested in it, and saying stuff like "Tell me more about that." "Why did you do that?" "Then what happened?" Let everyone else talk more than you. Even though they feel they're in control because they're doing most of the talking, you actually are because they're talking to you, and trying to get you to understand how cool / funny / sad / whatever their story is.

- Posture is everything. Make eye contact. Take up as much possible space as you can. Manspread, and grab an extra chair just so you can have your arm out. Lean back, not into the conversation. You own the room.

- Do not touch your face, play with your hands, fake laugh (especially at your own jokes - do not ever laugh at your own jokes), look down, or smile too much. Not doing these things on a date is probably the most important thing. Just be very relaxed.

- Being bold is always better than being timid. Do not ever apologize for anything ever. If she gets pissed, laugh it off and act like she's weird. If you break frame for any reason, you're toast. Her being pissed at you for being a "jerk" is way better than being a supplicating beta.

Once you do all this stuff, you're a guy who "gets it." You're the type of guy who 8s and 9s feel comfortable around, just like the natural alphas they grew up banging.

Hotter girls are way more fun to hang out with. I find that they are way easier going, and there are very few men who "get it", so your actual competition is lower than the 6 who has every beta male sending her fucking emojis and stories about how his cat did this funny thing.

Hank, that was an epic response. I'm going to read and re-read this many times in the future because I think you nipped my issue right in the bud.

I'm naturally agreeable, so it'll take conscious re-wiring on my part to embody the persona you described. Do you have specific person (i.e. celebrity) who you've studied? I'm pretty visual learner so it would help if I can watch this being executed in action.

[The Wire]

(09-15-2017 05:48 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

- Issue commands. "Let's get out of here."

https://youtu.be/qU6mOhPxYAQ?t=1m41s

[pancakemouse]

(09-17-2017 04:45 PM)The Wire Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 05:48 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

- Issue commands. "Let's get out of here."

https://youtu.be/qU6mOhPxYAQ?t=1m41s

Ah, yes, Ryan Gosling, the "uber-player" who buys girls drinks. Hollywood blue-pill fantasy.

[Hypno]

The other reason why this reconoissance or stalking is a poor idea is one tends to want to do it more with girls you are more attached to. The more you have already decided "she's girlfriend material" or "She's the one", or whatever, the more you have already lost. You have mentally accorded her higher value than yourself and will supplicate on the date.

[lawliesugar]

(09-18-2017 04:37 AM)Hypno Wrote:  

The other reason why this reconoissance or stalking is a poor idea is one tends to want to do it more with girls you are more attached to. The more you have already decided "she's girlfriend material" or "She's the one", or whatever, the more you have already lost. You have mentally accorded her higher value than yourself and will supplicate on the date.

This is a very good point. As much as I'd like to be as neutral as possible regardless of her looks, it's hard to be completely indifferent. I've heard some hacks where you treat the girl as if she's your annoying little sister, or build an abundant/attractive lifestyle where you no longer care if it works or not. But once in a while there will be a kryptonite-grade girl that makes you act differently.

Anyone else got some tips on being ruthlessly indifferent with girls (especially ones who are attractive) that aren't run-of-the-mill PUA cliche bs? I'm looking for something more practical and maybe even unrelated. I know at the end of the day you tend to make progress from repetition and painful reflection, so I'm not necessarily looking for a "magic bullet" either.

[Hypno]

You need an abundance mentality

Text swipe indiscriminately- anything WB - and ask them to qualify themselves to you . This gives you good frame for this one plus some additional irons in the fire. Also some of the girls you meet that you think are marginal will pleasantly surprise you in terms of meeting what you are looking for

[SlickyBoy]

(09-14-2017 06:12 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

Oh cool, you need coffee in the morning. Oh cool, picture of you on the beach somewhere. Oh cool, motivational quote about your run. Oh cool, picture of food.

Once you've read one girl's Facebook profile, you've read them all, really...

Yep. Hence the maxim that if you took the average western female and attached a dick and a balls to her, she'd instantly turn into an uninteresting, loser of a guy.


Checking social media for SIF status and single mommery is a good quick safety measure, but if it starts to go beyond ONS territory, there's better tools.

Women use things like Instant Checkmate all the time, you should too. I used it to check out a prospective tenant recently. While it wasn't perfect it often finds major red flags like bankruptcies and legal problems that I don't want my tenants to have. After I did that, I started thinking "Hm, whatever happened to that girl, so-and-so?" Made a few checks for fun and wow, the info I got on a few of these past FBs is hilarious.

It isn't a bad idea to check yourself on these sites too in case there's incorrect information you want to flag.