[nek]

(10-13-2015 12:18 AM)T and A Man Wrote:  

The video started of with a scrum, but then on the 23:50 we had a line out which formed into a rolling maul.

As long as the ball carrier remains bound to the maul, its legal, even if bound to the very back of the maul and out of reach of the defenders.

The defence has to resist by pushing back the forward progress of the maul, as once it ceases forward progression it must eject (i.e. pass the ball out) from the maul.

Also, defenders can only join the maul at an imaginary line between his side and the most forward of their side, they can't run around to the back of the maul to grab the call carrier.

England under Clive Woodward were famous for this. They took the rules if bind to the extreme, Richard Hill was notorious as part of the "tractor/trailer".

I just read the Rugby Laws and wouldn't this qualify as leaving the maul?

Random question but somewhat pertinent: What if the maul rotates, how do the offsides rules apply then?

[Rush87]

(04-20-2015 08:28 PM)nek Wrote:  

3) If a defender isn't in contact with a player from the tackled player's team, then a ruck isn't formed according to the rules, yet in the matches I've seen, the players on the defensive side still line up like there is a ruck. What am I missing?

This is because the moment a player is tackled a ruck will invariably be formed. If you don't onside a penalty will be given.

Essentially just look at any tackled player as a ruck. The opposing team must get behind them. This is why space will always open up after a break because the opposing team must race to get onside.

Also: I'm 28. I've played rugby since I was four and I watch games today and am still left clueless about some of the penalties.

[T and A Man]

Would what qualify as leaving the maul?

If its what I think you're getting at, the very last guy, in that video, still has contact with teammates in front of him, thus he is still bound to the maul. This is the tractor-trailer bit, where it's very loose contact, and some some tightly bound grunting that you'd expect of the maul.

If the maul rotates, the defender has to peel off and rejoin the maul at an onside position.

[nek]

New question: Is it common for the "head and shoulders above hips in a ruck" rule not to be enforced? I was watching the England v. Ireland Six Nations match from this year and in several of the rucks players went to the ground and it didn't seem to be called.

[Rush87]

(04-28-2016 08:43 PM)nek Wrote:  

New question: Is it common for the "head and shoulders above hips in a ruck" rule not to be enforced? I was watching the England v. Ireland Six Nations match from this year and in several of the rucks players went to the ground and it didn't seem to be called.

It's almost exclusively never enforced

[nek]

(04-28-2016 09:17 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  

(04-28-2016 08:43 PM)nek Wrote:  

New question: Is it common for the "head and shoulders above hips in a ruck" rule not to be enforced? I was watching the England v. Ireland Six Nations match from this year and in several of the rucks players went to the ground and it didn't seem to be called.

It's almost exclusively never enforced

This is so bizarre about rugby. There's subjectivity in every sport but I've never seen one where explicitly written laws are simply ignored. I was watching another match (it was a super rugby match I think) and guys were joining the maul in front of the rearmost guy in the maul who was in possession of the ball, right in front of the refs, and it was ignored. I've played and watched many sports in my time, but this is by far the craziest with regard to rules be open for interpretation.

[Easy_C]

If you've ever played Rugby, you know it's hard to follow that rule even if you're trying It's fairly common you will feel like you have to get down that low if you want to live.

[nek]

(04-28-2016 09:54 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

If you've ever played Rugby, you know it's hard to follow that rule even if you're trying It's fairly common you will feel like you have to get down that low if you want to live.

That's what I don't understand. If it is hard to comply with, and rarely enforced, why not just remove it as a rule? To me it just creates the potential for a situation where the referee may strictly interpret the rule and completely fuck up how a team plays the game if they're use to the rule typically not being enforced. I've never played, and I'm from the states so learning about it is a real effort. The variance in rule application is definitely a challenge when it comes to learning about rugby.

[Saweeep]

Sometimes it feels like rugby is made unnecessarily complicated purely to stop the oiks who didn't play at school ever picking it up later in life.

Can't have the riff raff playing the gentlemen's game

[nek]

Next questions: what positions comprise the 8 substitutes typically?

Also, when clearing a ruck, are there specific techniques that gotta be used?

[Saweeep]

Well you can't just shoulder barge into a ruck; you have to use your arms too like in a tackle.

The ideal position is a low starting, upward drive whilst keeping your back straight and your head out of trouble. As a kid, it felt like we spent 99% of our time on the practice field drilling rucking...so it's an important skill. You must drive with your legs not your back or arms. You need to bind onto one or two opposition players.

[T and A Man]

8 subs are ... 1,2,3 new front row.

It used to be seven subs, with two front rowers, but the laws are unless you have three qualified front rowers, you cant have contested scrums. So increased.

Sub 4 is usually a lock (4,5)

Sub 5 is a loose forward (6,7,8 emphasis in 6 & 8)

Sub 6 is a scrum half (9)

Sub 7 inside back (10,12)

Sub 8 outside back (11,13,14,15)

[nek]

What are the skills/traits that are needed to be good at each position?

[T and A Man]

Front row, particularly tighthead prop, squat and strong to push in scrums.

Locks, tall to jump in lineouts.

Number 8 is a powerful runner ball in hand. Not so much speed but power through contact. Like a gridiron running back intended to ram through people.

Number 6 is a combo between lock and 8.

Number 7 is a running machine, borders on triathlete fitness. Gets to breakdown to contest rucks.

Number 9, passing from the ruck.

Numbers 10, 12 & 13 are treated differently depending on coaching style, but 10 is often a good punter. All should pass well while running.

11 & 14 speed and the ability to elude defense, stepping swerving... or run over the top I Pacific islander

15 catching punts, punting themselves, fair amount of speed and ball passing

[nek]

Next question:

I've noticed sometimes the #8 retrieves the ball from the scrum and sometimes it's the scrum half. In what situations is one preferred over the other? I can see the benefit of the #8 doing it, as it allows for greater attacking numbers by not having the scrum half occupied.

[Saweeep]

(06-18-2016 10:56 AM)nek Wrote:  

Next question:

I've noticed sometimes the #8 retrieves the ball from the scrum and sometimes it's the scrum half. In what situations is one preferred over the other? I can see the benefit of the #8 doing it, as it allows for greater attacking numbers by not having the scrum half occupied.

Just depends on the move being played really.

It's a hard question to answer specifically as there are so many moving parts and circumstances at play at any given moment.

[nek]

Total newb question but here it goes: How important is the scrum? Would it be better for a team to pick forwards that are better in open play than worry about their scrummaging abilities?

[T and A Man]

If you're non competitive in the scrum, its pretty much impossible to win.

That's said, really only five of the forwards determine the efficacy if the scrum.

[Saweeep]

(06-18-2016 11:33 AM)nek Wrote:  

Total newb question but here it goes: How important is the scrum? Would it be better for a team to pick forwards that are better in open play than worry about their scrummaging abilities?

That's Rugby League you've described there.

See yesterday's Aus Vs Eng to note the importance of scrums.

[Mr. Ripley]

Set pieces are important. Its vital to win your own ball, obviously.

[nek]

(06-19-2016 12:09 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(06-18-2016 11:33 AM)nek Wrote:  

Total newb question but here it goes: How important is the scrum? Would it be better for a team to pick forwards that are better in open play than worry about their scrummaging abilities?

That's Rugby League you've described there.

See yesterday's Aus Vs Eng to note the importance of scrums.

Watched the game. To my untrained eyes, what won the game for England was:

- Great defense by the English, esp. when Oz got near the try line.
- Timely and accurate kicking by England (Oz clearly won the possession game, but England did much better with quickly gaining chunks of territory).
- Handling mistakes by Australia that cost them possession.

As for the scrums, the only thing I could see was that the playing pitch sucked, and that penalty at the end that got England their last 3 points. At that point, however, the game was sealed anyways. So I'm not really sure how significant the scrum was in impacting the result of the match. Thoughts?

[Mr. Ripley]

Australia had a mountain of possession and failed to create and capitalise on scoring opportunities.

[nek]

When a free/penalty kick is issued, how is it declared what type of kick will be taken (kick to touch, quick tap, or in the case of penalty, a kick at goal)? Is there some sort of time frame outside a quick tap can't be taken?

[Saweeep]

A quick tap must be taken immediately and from the exact spot that the referee indicates (give or take a yard or so I guess).

The type of kick taken from an infringement point is a purely tactical decision; with lots of factors taken into account.

For free kicks, you rarely see a kick to touch as possession is lost so a tap and go, whether quick or not, is usually the preferred option along with a very long, very high downfield kick for territory..

From a penalty, it is usually unwise to tap and go unless the game clock has expired or your team is within striking distance of the try line; even then, a scrum is often preferred when penalties are awarded close to the line as it ties in more forwards to allow a set play from the backs or a back row move.

As for the actual declaration; it is the captain's job to tell the referee what his team intends to do with the penalty. Once a decision has been made, it cannot be changed.

[Saweeep]

Also, I didn't notice your last question to me on the Eng Vs Aus game; to be honest i don't really remember the game it's been so long.


There is an old adage in rugby; the forwards win matches...the backs determine by how much.

The scrum is the arena for forward dominance to be displayed; a dominant scrum will often, but not always, win matches.