[amity]

I realise there have been threads on similar topics before, but none I believe addressing a same sex referendum (correct me if I'm wrong).

We're having a referendum in May which will make same sex marriage legal in this country.
http://news.sky.com/story/1430730/irelan...riage-vote
(Comments are actually polite and rational, makes a change from the rabble on most Youtube clips pertaining to this topic)

Here, there are some rational voices on the 'Yes' side, but they're few and far between and get drowned out by the attention whores and gay faux celebrity voices like 'Panti', who conveniently painted himself as a victim in a talk show furoré last year, so as to elevate him from D/C-list to B-list in this country's incestuous media circus.

Generally, the narrative is that either you support this vote or you're (at least a closet) homophobe.
Most of the mainstream media and pretty much every political party are onboard the 'Yes' train so it's almost guaranteed to come in.
The narrative will not be denied and most people have bought into it, as much out of not wanting to be seen as "intolerant" as anything else.
I'm not religious, in fact I'm as good as an atheist at this stage, but only a fool could fail to see that it's the Catholic Church who are being singled out for "intolerance" as they're the only church giving their opinion on it.
Other churches are perceived to be lower down on the privilege tree and so are largely getting away scot free.

It's sad to see so many people so indoctrinated here, even among some friends/colleagues of mine, to bring up such views is 'not cool' at best or 'intolerant' or 'homophobic' at worst.
My older friends in their forties are a bit more open to logical arguments than my millenial buddies (who really are the brainwashed generation), but even they seem to apply the 'But why can you not just allow two people in love to marry' straw man argument, more often than not.
Needless to say, social media is a no-go for the most part if you're not fully down with 'Yes' crowd (aside from a few older mates who see through the propaganda).

What are your thoughts?
Similar experiences in your country?
How to counter the kind of 'emotional reasoning' you get from the gay lobby, and still avoid getting portrayed as a homophobic bigot(not easy in this country!)

[TheWastelander]

Arguing with people over this is a complete waste of time. If society wants to allow the most promiscuous group of deviants to further devalue the institution of marriage by letting them marry, let 'em. Maybe more men will wake up to the fact that it's a bad deal.

But just for grins, when someone says "'But why can you not just allow two people in love to marry?" you should throw "Do you think we should allow incestuous couples to marry?" back in their faces.

[N°6]

Referenda in the Republic of Ireland tend to keep happening until the citizenry gets so weary that it votes the correct way.

[amity]

(04-08-2015 11:17 AM)N°6 Wrote:  

Referenda in the Republic of Ireland tend to keep happening until the citizenry gets so weary that it votes the correct way.

Indeed. So much for democracy!
Won't be any need for second vote this time round though.
Most people will vote the "right" way.

[Sp5]

The Catholic Church overplayed its hand in Ireland during the first 50 years of independence, they ran the place the way Wahabis run Saudi Arabia.

There was huge abuse and coverups, things like the Magdalene laundries, where misbehaving (slutty) girls and single moms were confined and enslaved.

They even had an identical incident to one in Saudi Arabia, where girls in a convent school burned to death because they were locked in rather than allowed to escape and be seen in their nightclothes. That was in the 1940s.

Now a lot of Irish don't give a damn about marriage, Catholic doctrine or religion in general now because of this history.

[britchard]

How are people scared of showing their 'intolerance' in a referendum. Sure they might say they're pro-gay, but when they are in their own little space with just them and the voting card, no-one knows what they've done.

As a Catholic country, I don't think it will be passed.

[amity]

(04-08-2015 01:28 PM)britchard Wrote:  

How are people scared of showing their 'intolerance' in a referendum. Sure they might say they're pro-gay, but when they are in their own little space with just them and the voting card, no-one knows what they've done.

As a Catholic country, I don't think it will be passed.

That's an interesting point, one I hadn't considered.
You could be right in that much of rural Ireland, and the older generation might say one thing but vote the other.
I was surprised when I read that polls were predicting 70-75% in the 'Yes' camp, but who's to say these polls are being reported honestly by a media almost completely behind(Heh!) the 'Yes' people, with the GLBT ratio being significantly higher in the media than in the populace in general.

[SteveMcMahon]

[Atlantic]

Anything that is seen as moving away from the 'church' in Ireland is seen as progress. The newer generation want to look like they have moved on from old Ireland. My Facebook is full of pro-gay updates all week and I can see young people voting heavily towards a YES. Unless the older generation really comes out in numbers this will get passes. And if it doesn't they will probably just vote again next year.

[davyjose]

I'm voting yes.

Simple reason is that I don't really care what gay people do one way or the other, if they stay out of my way (which they do) they can do whatever the fuck they like with each other, it's none of my business.

I live by a philosophy that someone should be entitled to do whatever the hell they want, so long as they don't harm another person. Gay marriage falls into this category (gay adoption doesn't, a different thing entirely which I'm vehemently opposed to..)

But man, it's hard being on the same side as the SJW's, feminists and the Fade Street hipster crowd with their "straight up for equality" facebook photos and all-round smugness.

Not to mention how if you show any sort of dissenting voice you're essentially cast as some kind of intolerant monster.

The strong stench of it is enough to make me vote No just to piss them fuckers off.

[Libertas]

(04-08-2015 04:05 PM)davyjose Wrote:  

I'm voting yes.

Simple reason is that I don't really care what gay people do one way or the other, if they stay out of my way (which they do) they can do whatever the fuck they like with each other, it's none of my business.

I live by a philosophy that someone should be entitled to do whatever the hell they want, so long as they don't harm another person. Gay marriage falls into this category (gay adoption doesn't, a different thing entirely which I'm vehemently opposed to..)

But man, it's hard being on the same side as the SJW's, feminists and the Fade Street hipster crowd with their "straight up for equality" facebook photos and all-round smugness. Not to mention how if you show any sort of dissenting voice you're essentially cast as some kind of intolerant monster.

The strong stench of it is enough to make me vote No just to piss them fuckers off.

And that's the problem.

The left never stops at tolerance.

If it was simply about tolerating homosexuality I don't think many of us on the forum would have much of an issue with it. But we know that's not what the left wants.

[Nalka]

On principle I don't care ether way. If gays want to get married, go ahead. Its not like marriage means anything anymore. Other tan another way to screw men over.

In practice though, the more the left gets the more they want. Give them gay marriage today, they get to forcus their energy on pushing more sinister crap. The more pushback they get on gay marriage the longer it holds up the rest of their agenda.

Give them one hill and they will use it as a base to assault the next.

[Will N. Dowd]

Every marriage is same sex. Unless you're cheating, it's always the same sex with the same person. Yawn!

[scotian]

(04-08-2015 02:07 PM)Atlantic Wrote:  

Anything that is seen as moving away from the 'church' in Ireland is seen as progress. The newer generation want to look like they have moved on from old Ireland. My Facebook is full of pro-gay updates all week and I can see young people voting heavily towards a YES. Unless the older generation really comes out in numbers this will get passes. And if it doesn't they will probably just vote again next year.

I'm pretty sure that the older voters will come out in full force as they always do, so it may be hard to predict, didn't a lot of the young Irish people such as yourself fuck off abroad over the past few years?

[davyjose]

(04-08-2015 04:39 PM)Nalka Wrote:  

In practice though, the more the left gets the more they want. Give them gay marriage today, they get to forcus their energy on pushing more sinister crap. The more pushback they get on gay marriage the longer it holds up the rest of their agenda.

Yeah, that's precisely it. Couldn't really care less what gays get up to, if they want to marry each other then have it at. It won't affect me one way or the other.

But you're right - after gay marriage the SJW's will need a new "cause", whether it's gay adoption, campaigning for trans-people to have their own toilets or some other bullshit.

[Phoenix]

(04-08-2015 04:05 PM)davyjose Wrote:  

I'm voting yes.

Simple reason is that I don't really care what gay people do one way or the other, if they stay out of my way (which they do) they can do whatever the fuck they like with each other, it's none of my business.

One may not have a problem with giving ground, but give ground to the cunts and they'll take the rest of it.

You let them take this, next you hear they'll be adopting kids, having 'gay normality' taught in schools, and clamoring for 'equal treatment' (special privileges) for gays.

Vote no. These people are not benevolent whatsoever.

[amity]

(04-09-2015 07:42 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 04:05 PM)davyjose Wrote:  

I'm voting yes.

Simple reason is that I don't really care what gay people do one way or the other, if they stay out of my way (which they do) they can do whatever the fuck they like with each other, it's none of my business.

One may not have a problem with giving ground, but give ground to the cunts and they'll take the rest of it.

You let them take this, next you hear they'll be adopting kids, having 'gay normality' taught in schools, and clamoring for 'equal treatment' (special privileges) for gays.

Vote no. These people are not benevolent whatsoever.

Perhaps 'cunts' is a bit strong, I do think there are genuine people on the 'Yes' side too, but the general point Phoenix makes is spot on.
The thing is, mainstream media is pushing the LGBT agenda increasingly in recent years.
Essentially they are trying to 'normalise' something that is not normal.
I'm not saying gay/trans people are 'abnormal', simply that to be sexually inclined towards your own sex or want to change sex is inherently abnormal.
Of course, LGBT people should be treated with the same respect as hetero people, and have the same rights, etc, and generally speaking, in the West, they do.
Marriage by definition is a male female partnership, so we are changing the legal definition of the word 'marriage' now if we say yes to same sex marriage, it's something malleable.
It opens the door for all kinds of abnormal "marriages" in future.
Gay adoptions will come along in the near future, once gay marriage becomes 'normalised'.

There's also the fact that giving the green light to gay marriage encourages the hypergamous narrative so beloved of Sheryl Sandberg, as few gay couples are 'exclusive' so to speak.
The idea of marriage is that it's exclusive, this cannot be said of the average gay male couple, they're often open-ended relationships.

It's a form of cultural hegemony, perpetuated by mainstream media and rubberstamped by 'right-on' politicians.
I will not contribute to that narrative.

[britchard]

Davyjose, I also don't care what gay people do or want, but please vote no. I just can't stand the smugness of the SJW cunts.

[Phoenix]

(04-09-2015 08:12 AM)amity Wrote:  

I'm not saying gay/trans people are 'abnormal'

No no, they are.

We should first accept that they are abnormal, and progress from there. These are freaks, who are very different from the common man, who can't help it, and are attempting to resolve the cognitive dissonance by having everyone else 'accept' them as 'normal'.

I think the treatment of the sexually broken should be the same as that of other people with worrying diseases: if they constitute no risk to the general public, help them if appropriate, and if they do, and cannot be fixed, push and hold them down and out of society.

[davyjose]

(04-09-2015 08:18 AM)britchard Wrote:  

Davyjose, I also don't care what gay people do or want, but please vote no. I just can't stand the smugness of the SJW cunts.

Yeah. I may just do that after all.

[SheriffBart]

People may think that gay marriages don't affect them at all. And in a limited way, that's true. Gay people being married doesn't directly affect you.

However, a society that has embraced gay marriage has embraced the idea that marriage represents a vehicle for romantic love and not a vehicle for families and raising well adjusted and healthy children.

Your society has given up on raising people in the most effective way possible. And if you think that having lower quality citizens in your country doesn't affect you, then you have another problem, stupidity.

[Hyperion]

(04-09-2015 12:19 PM)SheriffBart Wrote:  

People may think that gay marriages don't affect them at all. And in a limited way, that's true. Gay people being married doesn't directly affect you.

However, a society that has embraced gay marriage has embraced the idea that marriage represents a vehicle for romantic love and not a vehicle for families and raising well adjusted and healthy children.

Your society has given up on raising people in the most effective way possible. And if you think that having lower quality citizens in your country doesn't affect you, then you have another problem, stupidity.

Amen. Vote no even if it's throwing a sandbag against a tsunami.

Resist the SJW's at every turn.

[DickDastardly]

delete

[davyjose]

(04-09-2015 02:08 PM)DickDastardly Wrote:  

Personally I am conflicted by this. I believe the Government should stay out of peoples lives as much as possible and this vote falls under that.

However I also believe that should this pass the SJW brigade will then use it to campaign for Gay Adoption of which I am vehemently against. A child should have the right to a mother and a father.

So, yeah as of now I am leaning towards a no vote purely on the basis of a Yes vote being seen as encouraging the SJW brigade.

And that's the dilemma.

Vote yes because I think people should be allowed do what they want so long as no one else is affected BUT side with the smug hipster "straight up for equality" fucks who clog up Wexford St/The Bernard Shaw on a weekend, or else vote no.

And as we know, it's not even a case of "siding" with the SJW's. These fucks will no doubt not stop with this either.

I dunno man, 'tis a tough one. I'm still leaning towards yes, but it's not set in stone certainly..

[Phoenix]

It is not a state interference issue. If you told them, "you can enjoy all the legal benefits of a married couple, but it will be called a 'civil union'", they wouldn't accept it. This is predominantly a definition hijacking issue. 'Marriage' is a word that has always labeled the concept of the social institution where one man and one woman commit to each other, for stable and effective child rearing. They dislike that this normality is denied to them by their nature, and instead of just accepting their nature, they demand that everyone else participates in their delusion of normality.

What the gays want is nothing to do with 'them being allowed to do what they want'. If it was, they would be satisfied with the term 'civil union'. But this isn't what they want - they want society to pretend that their relationship constitutes a 'marriage'.

This is not an individual rights question whatsoever, it is purely a cultural attack.