[Buddydowrongright]

Hey bros,

I've had a weird phenomena happen the last few months: I've lost about 50 lbs on my deadlift, and about 30 on my squat. My bench and overhead press have stayed relatively the same, only fluctuating when I miss a gym day or don't sleep well the night before I lift. But this is starting to really frustrate me and if anyone can share some insight or a similar experience, I'd be grateful.

First, I'm 6'1, 170, 12-15%bf. I eat about 2000-2500 calories per day (going for a recomp).

Mid-January, my lifts were:
Squat: 250
Deadlift: 310

Not great by any means but a lot better than what I'm lifting now. Over the course of about three weeks, where I had a few missed trainings due to being sick (food poisoning) and traveling (Europe to America and back), I suddenly couldn't pick up 300 lbs off the floor. Then I tried 295. Then 285. Then 275. Nothing.

After failing to even move the bar on all of these, I finally was able to squeeze up 260 for a set of five. Since February, I have not been able to deadlift more than this weight. At that time I was still squatting 250 for 3 sets of 5.

Now a strange and similar thing is happening to my squat as happened to my deadlift. I'm losing big drops of strength every time I go to the gym. I went from squatting 250 a month ago, to 240 two weeks ago, now down to 230 yesterday. I video taped my last set of squats (low-bar btw), and my ass is hitting just slightly above parallel on all five reps, which is telling me I'm cheating my way through the set and my true 5rm is probably more like 220.

I suspect a few things might be responsible, but I'm not sure.

- In December I got brutally sick with a virus for two weeks and couldn't lift at all. Since then my program has been playing "catch up" in the gym, to get back where I was, rather than being able to focus on forward progress.

- Last year I hurt my lower back squatting and, right around the time of my inexplicable dead lift strength loss, I started getting lower back pain again (I have some as I'm typing this). It's a chicken or egg thing for me, since I don't know if I got the pain by re-tweaking my lower back trying to pull up too much weight from the floor, or on a squat gone bad, or if it was caused by behavior outside the weight room - such as sitting down more at work, or on the bus. Either way, the pain has been persistent since mid-Feb. and it has made me miss a handful of workouts. Some nights I would put the bar on my back to squat just the bar or one plate, and I couldn't get into position because my back would start hurting.

- APT: I seem to be developing APT, which I don't remember having a few months ago. My posture is degrading visibly, and I feel more tired trying to walk up straight with my hips forward than before. I'm not sure if this is because of the strength loss, or a factor in it (it is also probably heavily exacerbated by sitting down all day at work).

- Sleep: I've had trouble sleeping a full eight hours for about a year now. I wake up 2-3 times per night. I'm trying to improve my sleep hygiene, but don't really know much about it other than the obvious things like no caffeine after noon, getting enough exercise, etc. But it could have caused me to lift with bad form a few times due to fatigue which caused or worsened whatever is causing my lower back pain.

I know this was a lot of reading, so thanks in advance to whoever responds. I know it's common for progress in weightlifting to be elastic and it isn't always a straight line, but I feel like the past year has just been one big step forward followed by two huge steps back. I'd like to get out of this hole and begin making progress again.

Thanks

-

[rhodey]

(03-23-2015 02:40 AM)Buddydowrongright Wrote:  

Hey bros,

I've had a weird phenomena happen the last few months: I've lost about 50 lbs on my deadlift, and about 30 on my squat. My bench and overhead press have stayed relatively the same, only fluctuating when I miss a gym day or don't sleep well the night before I lift. But this is starting to really frustrate me and if anyone can share some insight or a similar experience, I'd be grateful.

First, I'm 6'1, 170, 12-15%bf. I eat about 2000-2500 calories per day (going for a recomp).

Mid-January, my lifts were:
Squat: 250
Deadlift: 310

Not great by any means but a lot better than what I'm lifting now. Over the course of about three weeks, where I had a few missed trainings due to being sick (food poisoning) and traveling (Europe to America and back), I suddenly couldn't pick up 300 lbs off the floor. Then I tried 295. Then 285. Then 275. Nothing.

After failing to even move the bar on all of these, I finally was able to squeeze up 260 for a set of five. Since February, I have not been able to deadlift more than this weight. At that time I was still squatting 250 for 3 sets of 5.

Now a strange and similar thing is happening to my squat as happened to my deadlift. I'm losing big drops of strength every time I go to the gym. I went from squatting 250 a month ago, to 240 two weeks ago, now down to 230 yesterday. I video taped my last set of squats (low-bar btw), and my ass is hitting just slightly above parallel on all five reps, which is telling me I'm cheating my way through the set and my true 5rm is probably more like 220.

I suspect a few things might be responsible, but I'm not sure.

- In December I got brutally sick with a virus for two weeks and couldn't lift at all. Since then my program has been playing "catch up" in the gym, to get back where I was, rather than being able to focus on forward progress.

- Last year I hurt my lower back squatting and, right around the time of my inexplicable dead lift strength loss, I started getting lower back pain again (I have some as I'm typing this). It's a chicken or egg thing for me, since I don't know if I got the pain by re-tweaking my lower back trying to pull up too much weight from the floor, or on a squat gone bad, or if it was caused by behavior outside the weight room - such as sitting down more at work, or on the bus. Either way, the pain has been persistent since mid-Feb. and it has made me miss a handful of workouts. Some nights I would put the bar on my back to squat just the bar or one plate, and I couldn't get into position because my back would start hurting.

- APT: I seem to be developing APT, which I don't remember having a few months ago. My posture is degrading visibly, and I feel more tired trying to walk up straight with my hips forward than before. I'm not sure if this is because of the strength loss, or a factor in it (it is also probably heavily exacerbated by sitting down all day at work).

- Sleep: I've had trouble sleeping a full eight hours for about a year now. I wake up 2-3 times per night. I'm trying to improve my sleep hygiene, but don't really know much about it other than the obvious things like no caffeine after noon, getting enough exercise, etc. But it could have caused me to lift with bad form a few times due to fatigue which caused or worsened whatever is causing my lower back pain.

I know this was a lot of reading, so thanks in advance to whoever responds. I know it's common for progress in weightlifting to be elastic and it isn't always a straight line, but I feel like the past year has just been one big step forward followed by two huge steps back. I'd like to get out of this hole and begin making progress again.

Thanks

-

Your lower back may be the issue. It's vital to both squats and dead lifts. Get yourself checked out by a doctor or chiropractor.

Now assuming your lower back gets healthy....

What stands out to me:


You are on a borderline fat loss diet. Basically its:



Fat Loss = 12-13 calories per pound of body weight

Maintenance = 15-16 calories per #

Weight Gain = 18-19 calories per #

So on a weight loss diet you can expect to lose strength. The degree it affects people varies but it comes with the territory.

Losing weight and getting stronger at the same time doesn't work in the long run unless you are on the juice. Some say if you are morbidly obese or an abject beginner it's also possible - I dunno. So pick which way you are going to go and focus on that.

In other words if you are going for a recomp (fat loss) expect to lose (or at best maintain) strength in the long run.

If you are trying to get stronger then you should up your calories.

[iknowexactly]

Stress is cumulative, you're not a machine-- you've listed back pain, food poisoning, timezone crossing travel, what might be a marginally weight-loss diet, feelings of fatigue up stairs, disrupted sleep is a symptom of overtraining...your back hurt RIGHT WHILE YOU'RE TYPING YOUR QUESTION...

It seems wildly obvious you may very well be taking on more stress than you can absorb, and if your sleep has been poor for a YEAR you might want to really get examined carefully with an open mind. . Positive thinking, denial of how you actually physically feel, can't overcome physical reality. Back pain from damaged disks can be very serious, and something you deal with the rest of your life.

You don't meet people who say "I fucked up my back and can't lift weights any more" because they aren't in the gym any more. Nobody brags about the hernia operations they got from squats. The guy that works at the fish counter at the grocery store told me about his in offhand conversation. No, everyone talks about how "lifting heavy" makes them feel great. If you can handle the stress, great.

What about stopping lifting weights for 10 days and seeing what happens? Do you really think that will make a significant difference in your physique?

[H1N1]

(03-23-2015 03:18 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

Stress is cumulative, you're not a machine-- you've listed back pain, food poisoning, timezone crossing travel, what might be a marginally weight-loss diet, feelings of fatigue up stairs, disrupted sleep is a symptom of overtraining...your back hurt RIGHT WHILE YOU'RE TYPING YOUR QUESTION...

Exactly this. You've basically said that due to injury and travel you've not trained properly in months, and that when you do train it is sub par. All of your lifts are either stagnant or regressing.

I don't personally believe everyone needs 8 hours of sleep, certainly not their whole lives, so there may just be times where you require less sleep. For me personally, I have a high workload at the moment, I'm in a calorie deficit doing IF, and I'm training twice a day (cardio in the AM, weights in the evening), and I'm still bouncing out of bed fully energised after 6 hours sleep. I tried to lie in on the weekend and I was climbing the walls I was so awake and bored. A few months ago this wasn't the case, I needed more sleep. The body has a way of regulating by and large. Worth checking out if it is more serious than your post suggests, but I wouldn't sweat it if you just can't sleep 8 hours straight, I don't think that many people can.

The fundamental answer to your problem is almost certainly to eat more. If you've been ill, injured, and in a calorie deficit for months, how do you expect your body to recover? You need to provide it with the fuel to recover, or the cumulative fatigue will cause you to slide backwards. Eat some junk food for a while if needs be, fit a pizza in a couple of times a week for the next month, that sort of thing (much better to do it healthily if you can, just don't sweat it if you can't - bigger picture here) and I reckon you'll feel a lot better and your lifts will pick up.


As an aside, I personally find it perfectly possible to gain strength (but not muscle mass) whilst in a calorie deficit. I've gone 3 cycles on 5/3/1 (9 weeks) getting stronger at the end of each cycle than I've every been, all whilst in a significant calorie deficit. Personally I think carb timing and fat intake (high) are more important in many respects than protein intake (as long as a basic 1lb/2.2lbs of bodyweight is met).

[Hannibal]

Look on the lifters lounge thread, I wrote a post about how I fixed my APT.

As far as raising your squat and deadlift, I find that heavy partial reps help immensely in regaining lost strength after a forced break from lifting (vacation, traveling etc).

Basically, set the safety bars about a foot lower than where you normally squat. Set a barbell on it and load that fucker up with at least 1.5x, if not more, than what you normally squat. Get underneath it, rack it on your shoulders and do a partial. Lock out for a couple seconds and lower it. Do it until your legs and back are thrashed. Get some good sleep and test out your max in a couple of days.

You likely have the strength, your body simply forgot how to deal with heavier loads. A lot of that is adaptation of the central nervous system, which is why extremely heavy partials are beneficial.

Your deadlift is suffering. Simply handling heavier loads in the partial squat will help. I also find that quick lifts, such as cleans, help. Grabbing a weight and ripping it violently off the ground is good for teaching your body how to get the weight off the ground.

I am not a doctor, but everything I write works for me.

[H1N1]

(03-23-2015 05:04 AM)Hannibal Wrote:  

Look on the lifters lounge thread, I wrote a post about how I fixed my APT.

As far as raising your squat and deadlift, I find that heavy partial reps help immensely in regaining lost strength after a forced break from lifting (vacation, traveling etc).

Basically, set the safety bars about a foot lower than where you normally squat.

Good post, but for the OP's benefit, I think you mean higher here? Below parallel to lockout with 1.5x is one hell of a partial!

[Hannibal]

(03-23-2015 05:16 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 05:04 AM)Hannibal Wrote:  

Look on the lifters lounge thread, I wrote a post about how I fixed my APT.

As far as raising your squat and deadlift, I find that heavy partial reps help immensely in regaining lost strength after a forced break from lifting (vacation, traveling etc).

Basically, set the safety bars about a foot lower than where you normally squat.

Good post, but for the OP's benefit, I think you mean higher here? Below parallel to lockout with 1.5x is one hell of a partial!

Yeah I'm hammered, I mean where you take the bar off the pins.

Please don't ban me Tuth.

[Jneg]

(03-23-2015 02:40 AM)Buddydowrongright Wrote:  

Hey bros,

I've had a weird phenomena happen the last few months: I've lost about 50 lbs on my deadlift, and about 30 on my squat. My bench and overhead press have stayed relatively the same, only fluctuating when I miss a gym day or don't sleep well the night before I lift. But this is starting to really frustrate me and if anyone can share some insight or a similar experience, I'd be grateful.

First, I'm 6'1, 170, 12-15%bf. I eat about 2000-2500 calories per day (going for a recomp).

Mid-January, my lifts were:
Squat: 250
Deadlift: 310

Not great by any means but a lot better than what I'm lifting now. Over the course of about three weeks, where I had a few missed trainings due to being sick (food poisoning) and traveling (Europe to America and back), I suddenly couldn't pick up 300 lbs off the floor. Then I tried 295. Then 285. Then 275. Nothing.


-

Dude are you me?

I deadlifted 405 for 5 reps consistently and then I did some travelling (to China) where I got severe food poisoning and also ate at a massive calorie deficit for weeks. I started back deadlifting 225, then next time 275, will go for 315 next time and slowly work my way back up.

You will drasticly lose strength based on your experience, BUT muscle memory is real and you can get back quickly. Don't bite of more than you can chew though, even though its tempting. You're gonna need to grease the groove and just get back into your good habits and progressive overload.

We're all gonna make it brah

[Hades]

When you get back pain and injuries and whatnot it's a good time to ease off and do assistance work. My guess is that you should take some extra time to hit core (ab wheel or l-sits) and do some kind of mobility work.