[AntiTrace]

I have very little knowledge when it comes to weightlifting and macro-nutrient intake, so this thread serves as a discussion point where hopefully some more knowledgeable members can chime in.

I am trying to get a cutting routine solidified to bring my BF to sub 10%. I am guessing I'm in the high teens as I haven't done much in the past few months due to continuous injuries. I have never actually sat down and crunched the numbers of my diet, so bear with my here and let me know any advice.

I plugged 6 meals into excel and got all the nutritional information for each item. So far my diet comes to 2200 cals composed of 220g protein, 45g fat, 182g carb. I currently weigh approx 165. Plugged into: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/macronut...ulator.htm and it looks like I'm a little high on the protein and a little low on the carbs.

I workout 5x a week and am hoping to hit the BF goal in three months, so mid June, followed by a clean bulk routine maintaining the low BF. Of course to keep a good track of things I need to get my BF measured, that's in the works.

I'll post my meals if needed but it basically comes to:

BFAST: Oats, egg whites, bread, and a banana
Shake: 1 scoop protein with 8oz skim milki
Lunch: Spinach + chicken salad with sunflower seeds. An apple.
Shake: 1 scoop with water.
Dinner: Baked potato, broccoli, small steak
Shake: 1 scoop with 8oz skim milk

A cheat snack throughout the day would be beef bone broth with carrots/celery/potatoes/.

I will adjust the diet as needed as I go through the first couple weeks of it, but do any of these macro numbers look glaringly wrong? Ultimately, am I on the right track?

[MrXY]

Getting to under 10% bodyfat is very difficult to do and maintain and completely unnecessary. Body fat percentage is like the ratings of girls guys have banged-highly prone to exaggeration. The rule of thumb is that abs are clearly visible at 11%, which should be plenty lean enough. 12-13% is much more realistic to reach and maintain during your fitter periods over the long term.

You'll lose weight much more easily and quickly if you lower your carbs; 182g is in the maintenance range. Try to get your carbs under 100g at least; better if you get under 75g. I've done ketosis diets with carbs under 50g for up to 8 weeks, with one carb refeed meal per week. Eat your carbs early in the day and in your post workout meal. Avoid carbs entirely in the evening. Lowering your carbs allows you to up your fats so you won't get so hungry. Carbs make your appetite increase a few hours after you eat them; once your body learns to use fat for fuel more often you don't get those frequent appetite spikes.

[The Lizard of Oz]

(03-16-2015 07:13 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

Getting to under 10% bodyfat is very difficult to do and maintain and completely unnecessary.

Not only that, it is in fact unhealthy and very negative for your mood and libido. At a sufficiently low body fat your body starts producing less testosterone, and your immune system is compromised. You will feel bad in all sorts of ways. You need the fat for your brains and balls to be juiced right.

There is absolutely no reason for any guy to go below 12% body fat. As kosko noted in this excellent post, looking "shredded" is not the same as being healthy and optimally thriving.

[H1N1]

I completely agree with the guys above in principle. However, as I posted in the 'Be very lean...' thread, and indeed as Mr XY says, bf% is a guess if you're only going by eye. The problem with the idea of a percentage, or of 'visible abs' is it still means different things to different people. Given that you are most likely your own harshest critic (as are we all), you may well find yourself at the ideal point of leanness still looking at yourself thinking you're fat.

Again, to touch on a point I made elsewhere, lighting, and whether or not you are flexing, can totally distort the picture, and leave you clueless as to where you actually stand. For me, based on picture comparisons, I can be anywhere between single digit and 20% bf, depending on which bathroom I'm in, and whether I'm flexing or standing in the most unflattering pose I can manage.

Just looking at your diet, I would cut the bread and milk, and use it to add some rice/potato in at lunch time instead of the rabbit food. This has two advantages in my view - 1. A lot of people, me included, find bread and milk slightly harder to process, and more likely to add fat. This is pure bro science, but I know for me and other people I've helped, cutting bread and milk without cutting total calories has had a positive weightloss effect. 2. By adding in some more carbs, and putting them at lunch time, you are more likely to feel satisfied in between meals, and more likely to stick to your diet. (3. You're less likely to turn into a rabbit by doing this. 4. Skim milk is for hipsters, and porn enemas, not for grown men - whole milk or nothing).

The other change you could possibly make is to have bigger meals with more meat, and cut the shakes altogether. Personally I find that more effective, but I have a huge appetite and try to avoid protein shakes. There's no right or wrong here.

Finally, I realise that given what I've said in the first two paragraphs, I sound like some kind of fat internet weirdo giving you diet advice. My stats are: 6'1, 188lbs. Arms 15.2", Chest 43", Waist 32.1", Legs 25.5". My press/bench/squat/dead numbers are in the 1+/2+/3+/4+ plate range. This morning I was able to run a sub-6 minute mile in a fasted state (with poster Aer's help - thanks Aer). I post those details only so you can make an informed decision about whether my advice is useful to you on this subject.

Edit, one of the points of that last paragraph was supposed to be to suggest that you take photos and measure key points around your body to make sure you're losing weight in the right places. The tape measure is a much, MUCH better guide to progress/condition/leanness than the mirror is.

[AntiTrace]

carbs were easily the hardest thing to meet the percentage with, again basing my calculations off the body building calculator. That's why put in more bread, to try to boost the carbs. When I was lifting heavy I was on the whole milk grind. That was mainly to try to invrease calories while getting a little bit of extra protein. Now I'm trying to do the opposite, reduce calories while getting a little bit of extra protein, cue Skim milk.

BF will be measured, not "eye fucked" in a mirror.

Today is my first run through at the meal plan, I will no doubt have many corrections to make to it. Hopefully reducing the carbs, I have find that my typical diet is surprisingly low in carbs (I was only around 90 carbs when I first put a typical day in for me). If I can get away with reducing carbs I will definitely do so.

Appreciate everyones advice.

[StrikeBack]

(03-16-2015 03:44 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

I will adjust the diet as needed as I go through the first couple weeks of it, but do any of these macro numbers look glaringly wrong? Ultimately, am I on the right track?

Looks ok to start with, but you miss some critical info.

What are your current LBM and BF%? Go take a DEXA scan right now. Then schedule another in 3 months.

What's your history: training, diet and BF%?

Some people show a high tolerance for higher fat intake, some for higher carbs etc. due to genetics and history.

Generally if you want to cut AND maintain the BF% afterwards, you want to first rev up calories as high as possible (slowly) while maintaining the same-ish BF%. Don't start cutting calories too low, you'll have nowhere to go. i.e if you can maintain with 3000 calories, it's very easy to cut, while if you have to go down to 1800 cals to maintain the same BF%, cutting or even just staying there will be a royal pain and won't last long. The slowly increasing calories (while making sure you maintain) will also boost up your metabolism.

While the first two posters made some good points, they did miss a few things. Firstly, it's easier for a lighter guy to maintain a lower BF% (OP is 165lb, I'm around the same weight 163lb) than a bigger guy. Secondly, you can train your body to lose fat with a higher carb intake. I'm actually doing this right now and losing fat while gaining muscles with 187g of carbs (recently bumped to 200g). Last cycle I gained 1.89kg of LBM and lost just over 3kg of fats. My strategy is to reverse diet (ala Layne Norton) to as high carbs as possible. Fat is 77g and protein is 200g, FYI. I've done low carbs too and also lost a lot of fats (I was fatter though), but life is easier if you can tolerate high carbs.

[Bilboswaggins]

Although research has painted a dark picture of being in a low body-fat state, using IF and incorporating refeeds and cycling carbs/fat has let me cut down to 8-10% body fat without the negatives. It seems to be that calorie restriction is the main reason for the drop, not body fat. Martin Berkhan (founder of leangains) has actually answered the question here:

http://www.leangains.com/2009/08/questions-answers.html

Q: "My sex drive just winds down to nearly nothing when I'm running an intense caloric deficit. Is there some documented/anecdotal correlation on this, or is it random according to the individual?"

A: It's not random, it's a fact that weight loss/calorie restriction, even moderate in nature, causes a delayed response to gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH). This neurohormone is secreted in a pulsatile manner from the hypothalamus, and upon binding to receptors in the pituitary gland, it activates synthesis of reproductive hormones, luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone(FSH). This axis is partially under control by "master" hormones involved in sensing the general energy status of the body; leptin and insulin, for example.

An energy deficit lowers leptin, which in turn impacts the reproductive axis negatively. This makes complete evolutionary sense, when you consider that reproduction is such an energy costly process. Conversely, high body fat percentage also affects the reproductive axis negatively, through other mechanisms -insulin resistance being one major cause discussed in this context.

Looking at studies on this topic, the effect is proportional to the energy deficit. In one paper, they noted that the delayed response in GnRH pulsatility was "intermediate in extent" when comparing moderate weight loss (-1% body weight/week or some such) to that of anorectics or VLCD (400-800 kcal/day).

My personal experience is that a moderate deficit (i.e net deficit/week is moderate, say -3500 kcal) has no noticeable impact, while a high deficit (i.e -7000 kcal/week) has a negative impact. The latter is augmented on very low carb or straight ketogenic diets. Cyclical diets are superior in this regard.

End of quote.

That said, I think that getting to 6% body fat is pointless for the average dude simply because it takes a long time to get there and has no additional advantages in terms of attraction. However, getting to 8-10% is certainly worth it and getting there shouldn't be that hard if you incorporate leangains, calorie and carb/fat cycling in combination with a sensible training routine.

Before we can help you, we need more information such as height and strength in compound movements (squats, bench press, deadlift and weighted chins) to set up a solid routine (you aren't putting on muscle when cutting, so why train 5x/week??) and diet.