[DrewP]

[Putting this in Everything Else because I believe it qualifies as social commentary]

This is a misconception that needs to be cleared up; game cannot improve the collective plight of western men. I know people don't want to hear this, but our ideology is all about accepting hard truths, so it needs to be said:

Success with women is a zero-sum game.

There is a fixed amount of quality pussy to go around. Any man who improves his attractiveness does so at the expense of every other man out there. If the mediocre masses of men suddenly became game aware, no man's sex/love life would improve, because the limiting factor for men as a whole is the supply of good women.

That's not to say I'm some commie who thinks we should all just stop improving ourselves to foster equality. There is nothing morally wrong with enriching one's prospects at the collective expense of everyone else's. (Tangent- Even if you disagree with that statement, you still shouldn't be a commie because economics doesn't work like that.) My point is this:

To save western men, we must encourage WOMEN to focus on self-improvement.

Unless you live under a rock, you've probably noticed that these days, young women focus more energy on avoiding and/or belittling men they're not attracted to than on finding a man they would be attracted to. You've probably noticed that the idea of "pleasing men" is seen as a dirty phrase, and it's considered empowering to not give a shit about finding a man. You've probably noticed that any common place to meet someone of the opposite sex; be it a bar, party, club, or dating site; is a total cockfest where men fall all over themselves to try and impress the scarce supply of women who sit back and scrutinize from a position of comfort and indifference. Those who frequent the gym probably notice that for every fit girl who performs somewhat intense workouts, there are at least 20 such guys.

In previous generations, girls were stereotyped as being preoccupied with their appearance and obsessed with their ability to find a good guy to settle down with. Needless to say, we've lost that. Most girls these days are perfectly content with being overweight (or at least content enough not to do anything about it), and such girls who would amount to nothing more than comedy fodder in other cultures or time periods even have a laundry list of demands for any potential suitor. Most girls simply take for granted that they'll be able to find a man, regardless of what they themselves bring to the table.

What we have here is an imbalanced dating market, where one side of the coin is trying a lot harder than the other. I liken it to job fairs at the peak of the recession; it was ludicrous the length candidates would go to leave an impression, while the employers were overwhelmed with choice paralysis that made them indifferent and sometimes unpleasant to deal with. Anyway, disseminating game to the masses WILL ONLY EXACERBATE this market imbalance. Don't get me wrong, game is a fine tool for individual self-improvement, but making women give a shit again is the key to a more healthy society.

[Travesty]

If every guy had true game women wouldn't have a welfare state. It'd be shape up or fuck off.

You know women are not logical enough as a group to improve when they cannot comprehend the incentive. They love being cat ladies given the chance proof is in the pudding.

You basically need to box them into a corner due to lack of options to keep 'em in line.

[El Chinito loco]

I agree game is not the solution, the fundamental problem is culture. Anglo culture in the modern era is horribly broken.

It's a pale manifestation of its past with hidden neurotic victorian era values, ivory tower liberalism, and minimalization of the common man who is the backbone of all societies.

It's become a culture that celebrates degeneracy not just in itself but in others as well. There's no culture to speak of people are just imitations of pop culture and media shaping. The anglosphere is the only place where I see a lot of people regularly adopting the mannerisms and speech patterns from tv characters. It's sad. There is no identity left. It's all just an amalgamation of media produced shit.

[Saladin]

Only a small niche of guys will ever bother learning game.

It's pretty obvious even in Toronto.

There's a huge turnover rate. Very few guys have what it takes to stay in the game long term and achieve a high level of success. Many of them girlfriend up the first 7 that they fall for.

Game isn't a solution for the culture, but it's a vital and useful skillset. Not to mention it builds character.

So yes, for the small percent of men who actually apply red pill teachings and game, it's a godsend.

[Lion of Judah]

Good luck on trying to do that (getting women to "give a shit"). That's like saying we should go back to the 1950s- technology (birth control, home appliances, mass media) has changed society so much that we've passed the point of return where that's even possible.

One idea I do think could help a little bit would be the legalization of prostitution in the US. That would relieve some of the sexual frustration of men and place some onus on women to be better partners in the sexual market.

Besides, we'll all be uploaded to computer simulations/fused with cyborg technology anyhow in 100 years so all the inter-gender warfare won't even matter soon.

[DrewP]

(02-12-2015 11:31 PM)Saladin Wrote:  

Only a small niche of guys will ever bother learning game.

It's pretty obvious even in Toronto.

There's a huge turnover rate. Very few guys have what it takes to stay in the game long term and achieve a high level of success. Many of them girlfriend up the first 7 that they fall for.

Game isn't a solution for the culture, but it's a vital and useful skillset. Not to mention it builds character.

So yes, for the small percent of men who actually apply red pill teachings and game, it's a godsend.

To me, game just means behaving in a sexually attractive way, whether utilized to bed as many chicks as possible or wife up a 7. Guys with decent girlfriends typically have decent game.

[N°6]

I agree that it is not the solution. Game is most applicable up to the first time you have sex with a woman. In the shower the morning afterwards is when a man who has taken the time to learn game really believes if the woman he gamed is an 8+. She probably wasn't.

[Quintus Curtius]

(02-12-2015 11:22 PM)DrewP Wrote:  

[Putting this in Everything Else because I believe it qualifies as social commentary]

I know people don't want to hear this, but our ideology is all about accepting hard truths, so it needs to be said:

[b If the mediocre masses of men suddenly became game aware, no man's sex/love life would improve, because the limiting factor for men as a whole is the supply of good women.

That's not to say I'm some commie who thinks we should all just stop improving ourselves to foster equality. There is nothing morally wrong with enriching one's prospects at the collective expense of everyone else's. (Tangent- Even if you disagree with that statement, you still shouldn't be a commie because economics doesn't work like that.) My point is this:

To save western men, we must encourage WOMEN to focus on self-improvement.

Unless you live under a rock, you've probably noticed that these days, young women focus more energy on avoiding and/or belittling men they're not attracted to than on finding a man they would be attracted to. You've probably noticed that the idea of "pleasing men" is seen as a dirty phrase, and it's considered empowering to not give a shit about finding a man. You've probably noticed that any common place to meet someone of the opposite sex; be it a bar, party, club, or dating site; is a total cockfest where men fall all over themselves to try and impress the scarce supply of women who sit back and scrutinize from a position of comfort and indifference. Those who frequent the gym probably notice that for every fit girl who performs somewhat intense workouts, there are at least 20 such guys.

In previous generations, girls were stereotyped as being preoccupied with their appearance and obsessed with their ability to find a good guy to settle down with. Needless to say, we've lost that. Most girls these days are perfectly content with being overweight (or at least content enough not to do anything about it), and such girls who would amount to nothing more than comedy fodder in other cultures or time periods even have a laundry list of demands for any potential suitor. Most girls simply take for granted that they'll be able to find a man, regardless of what they themselves bring to the table.

What we have here is an imbalanced dating market, where one side of the coin is trying a lot harder than the other. I liken it to job fairs at the peak of the recession; it was ludicrous the length candidates would go to leave an impression, while the employers were overwhelmed with choice paralysis that made them indifferent and sometimes unpleasant to deal with. Anyway, disseminating game to the masses WILL ONLY EXACERBATE this market imbalance. Don't get me wrong, game is a fine tool for individual self-improvement, but making women give a shit again is the key to a more healthy society.

I strongly disagree with your premises and your conclusions. I will take your quotes, and respond to them.

1. "This is a misconception that needs to be cleared up; game cannot improve the collective plight of western men."

No one ever said game was a magic elixir that would solve all of men's problems. Just like getting your shoes shined will not fix your broken heels. But it sure will improve the overall presentation.

"Game" is simply a set of social habits and skills that help you sleep with women. Sleeping with women is an important part of the masculine experience. It has a place in the self-improvement universe. But it is not everything in the masculine experience, and no one ever said that it was.

2. "Success with women is a zero-sum game...There is a fixed amount of quality pussy to go around. Any man who improves his attractiveness does so at the expense of every other man out there."

This is nonsense. You are defeating yourself with this way of thinking. Success with women is not a zero sum game. You are not trading futures contracts here. You are developing yourself mentally, spiritually, and professionally. It is a game you are playing with yourself. For Christ's sake, man, what do you care what other guys are doing? Focus on yourself. Develop yourself. Stop fixating on what you believe to be the "big picture."

3. "We shouldn't spread the truths of game around because it will make things harder for everyone."

No. Your way of thinking displays a mentality of scarcity. You believe that there is a finite amount of pussy, a finite amount of goodies, a finite amount of compliments and good vibes out there in the universe. Wrong. This way of thinking reminds me of those people who secretly wish others would fail, so that their own perceived odds of success will rise.

It reminds me of those people who don't like to give compliments or praise to others because, being tortured by insecurity, they think praising others detracts from themselves.

4. "We should encourage women to improve themselves."

I'm frothing at the mouth as I read that. How can you say this?

Our job is not to encourage women to be the best they can be. Our job is to encourage ourselves to be the best we can be. Women are followers. Women want you to lead. They will follow if you, as a man, will lead. Your inner strength, your inner masculine core, is what they will key off of. All you need to do is improve yourself.

You have no business trying to improve Mary Jane Rottencrotch. You need to be focusing on yourself.

Defeatism is not the way to go. The overall impression given by your post is just that: defeatism.

My guess is that you're in a rut right now, or have hit a rough patch in your life, and are just venting. That's fine. But embracing the wrong thinking will only make things worse.

.

[DrewP]

(02-13-2015 12:42 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

I strongly disagree with your premises and your conclusions. I will take your quotes, and respond to them.

1. "This is a misconception that needs to be cleared up; game cannot improve the collective plight of western men."

No one ever said game was a magic elixir that would solve all of men's problems. Just like getting your shoes shined will not fix your broken heels. But it sure will improve the overall presentation.

"Game" is simply a set of social habits and skills that help you sleep with women. Sleeping with women is an important part of the masculine experience. It has a place in the self-improvement universe. But it is not everything in the masculine experience, and no one ever said that it was.

2. "Success with women is a zero-sum game...There is a fixed amount of quality pussy to go around. Any man who improves his attractiveness does so at the expense of every other man out there."

This is nonsense. You are defeating yourself with this way of thinking. Success with women is not a zero sum game. You are not trading futures contracts here. You are developing yourself mentally, spiritually, and professionally. It is a game you are playing with yourself. For Christ's sake, man, what do you care what other guys are doing? Focus on yourself. Develop yourself. Stop fixating on what you believe to be the "big picture."

3. "We shouldn't spread the truths of game around because it will make things harder for everyone."

No. Your way of thinking displays a mentality of scarcity. You believe that there is a finite amount of pussy, a finite amount of goodies, a finite amount of compliments and good vibes out there in the universe. Wrong. This way of thinking reminds me of those people who secretly wish others would fail, so that their own perceived odds of success will rise.

It reminds me of those people who don't like to give compliments or praise to others because, being tortured by insecurity, they think praising others detracts from themselves.

4. "We should encourage women to improve themselves."

I'm frothing at the mouth as I read that. How can you say this?

Our job is not to encourage women to be the best they can be. Our job is to encourage ourselves to be the best we can be. Women are followers. Women want you to lead. They will follow if you, as a man, will lead. Your inner strength, your inner masculine core, is what they will key off of. All you need to do is improve yourself.

You have no business trying to improve Mary Jane Rottencrotch. You need to be focusing on yourself.

Defeatism is not the way to go. The overall impression given by your post is just that: defeatism.

My guess is that you're in a rut right now, or have hit a rough patch in your life, and are just venting. That's fine. But embracing the wrong thinking will only make things worse.

I hate to say this man but it sounds like you didn't even read my post; and if you did, you entirely misunderstood it on the very most fundamental level.

1. I never said anyone claimed game was a magic elixir that would solve all men's problems, or anything remotely close. I said that it can't solve ANY of men's COLLECTIVE problems, even those related to sleeping with women; it can only enrich individual men at the expense of others.

2. My entire post is a commentary on the big picture of western society, and isn't intended to be about myself in any way. I don't understand why you're telling me to ignore the big picture on the subforum that's intended for commentary on the big picture.

3. What the eff dude, that's not even a quote. Nor did I even imply anything like that. That is seriously in bad form. And are you really denying that there's a finite amount of pussy to go around? Huh? So the population of females on earth is infinity?

4. Again it sounds like you didn't read the post you're responding to. The whole post is a commentary on society and you're trying to rally individuals to give themselves a leg up. Totally misses the point. Unless you're saying you believe women will decide to work hard to be thin, loving, and pleasant if more men cultivate game, which is the most far-fetched idea I've ever read on this forum.

Seriously man I know you're trying to help and instill the right ideas in people and all that good stuff, but the fact that you're railing against a commentary you made no attempt to even remotely comprehend, and making up fake quotes to respond to, is slightly irritating.

My OP is predicated on an idea that's as logically indisputable as the idea that 1+1=2. When there's a fixed amount of some resource (pussy), competition for that resource is a zero sum game. All the rah rah emotional ranting in the world isn't gonna change that.

[Quintus Curtius]

@DrewP:

I did read your post. And I'm responding directly to points you made. Every point I made was in response to things you yourself said. Other readers here can judge for themselves.

And yes, you are talking indirectly about yourself. Whether you know it or not. How do I know? I can feel it. That's how.

Our opinions of the world, our opinions of society, are reflections of our own states of mind.

I'll say it one more time, because I like to repeat myself: our job as men is not to improve women. This is a fool's errand.

Your purpose in life is to be the best man you can be.

There are millions of girls in the world. They're all there for the taking, if only you embrace the right mindset.

The potential for growth, achievement, and excellence in the world is unlimited. But it can only be tapped if you have the correct frame of mind.

And to me, you need an attitude correction. Your post radiates negativity and defeatism. If that irritates you, I'm sorry. But we need to be positive here, and encourage an atmosphere that promotes positive development.



.

[DrewP]

(02-13-2015 01:31 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

@DrewP:

I did read your post. And I'm responding directly to points you made. Every point I made was in response to things you yourself said. Other readers here can judge for themselves.

And yes, you are talking indirectly about yourself. Whether you know it or not. How do I know? I can feel it. That's how.

Our opinions of the world, our opinions of society, are reflections of our own states of mind.

I'll say it one more time, because I like to repeat myself: our job as men is not to improve women. This is a fool's errand.

Your purpose in life is to be the best man you can be.

There are millions of girls in the world. They're all there for the taking, if only you embrace the right mindset.

The potential for growth, achievement, and excellence in the world is unlimited. But it can only be tapped if you have the correct frame of mind.

And to me, you need an attitude correction. Your post radiates negativity and defeatism. If that irritates you, I'm sorry. But we need to be positive here, and encourage an atmosphere that promotes positive development.

You're still missing the original point. Let me put it differently- if western men all one day woke up and decided to get in fantastic shape, buy stylish clothes, learn a marketable skill and get a lucrative job, and hone their game/social skills, would western men be any more successful in attracting quality women?

Of course not. You would still see the same glut of frustrated guys who can't attract a decent woman. That's because the collective success of men (with women) is SOLELY dependent upon the supply of women! One man improving his prospects is merely shifting some of the success away from all other men and toward him. He is not creating any "wealth," so to speak. And again, there's nothing wrong with that in my book; I, like you, encourage all men here to use their knowledge to their advantage. But if we're to discuss ways to improve society, this truth must be acknowledged.

Another way to look at it is that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. For every man game saves from a life of sexual frustration, it condemns another.

And again, I'm talking about society, not me. I love that this community focuses on self-improvement, but what's so wrong with one thread about societal improvement? You seem to be working out of the SJW playbook and responding to logic with emotional ranting. It may be well received here because the values you're espousing in these emotional rants of yours are in line with those of the community (and mine, believe it or not), but nonetheless, when I lay out a logical argument, I don't see an impromptu motivational speech as a valid retort.

[Deluge]

Most men will never hear about game. Most who hear about it, will never act on it. Most who act on it, never become good at it. Most who become good at it, quickly lock down a 6 or 7 girlfriend and quit. Hell, most men end up overweight or obese despite the huge health repercussions. I would not worry about Game being "zero-sum".

[Legendver2]

I can understand looking at the big picture, but the points in the argument are going off a scenario that will never happen, so it's a moot point. There is only one fundamental rule of nature in terms of survival as a species and animal, and that is survival of the fittest. What you're basically saying is, what would happen to the world, or a specific species, if one they they all became the fittest, wouldn't there be a finite amount of prey/resources/food to go around since everyone is now fit to survive? That scenario will never happen, the same as the impossibility of all men in the anglosphere one day becoming game aware.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

All men are not going to magically become fully actualized red pill studs instantly. Magic is not real.

However, I believe red pill beliefs will spread over the coming years, since they are true, and the reality of the red pill will become more and more widely recognized.

When almost all men are red pill, we will not all be racking up triple digit notch counts and marrying sweet, loyal, low N women. However, I believe that in a red pill society, most women will be surrounded by the dominant men they need, and will not get out of control the way they are now.

Feminism and cuntish behavior by women is really just a shit test on a societal scale. Society is figuring this out, and is right now in the midst of agreeing and amplifying. As we all know, when a beta wakes up, and starts agreeing and amplifying or otherwise passing shit tests, the girl first doubles down with the shit tests, then sweetens up and starts getting wet for him. Woman-kind is doubling down right now, and when society starts passing their shit tests, better times will come.

Some would say that progressive government and birth control guarantee that the old days will never return, and they're right to some degree, but women want the D, and when a large majority of men refuse to settle for bullshit behavior, and are righteously confident and dominant as a man ought to be, then these bitches are going to shape up. All any woman needs to shape up is some decent leadership, and in the coming years, men are going to be able to provide it, and will insist on leading. Women can try to resist, but this is just a shit test, and when men pass this shit test, the women will be putty in their hands.

[Tuthmosis]

[lskdfjldsf]

I think the OP has a point - if every guy self-improves in the same areas, there's no differentiating factor separating you from the herd. This is more pronounced in the U.S., where you can walk into any club and see most of the guys wearing the exact same button-up shirts with the exact same fake gym muscle, prancing around with the exact same feigned alpha attitude. The PUA scene has saturated the market with lots of bullshit and girls have certainly picked up on this over the past few years.

However, I think your conclusion about the futility of self-improvement is incorrect. Consider this a phase of learning, just an obstacle on your path, and approach it the same way you would a job in a competitive hiring environment. The key is separating yourself as an individual and maintaining a competitive focus at all times. If guys wear the same shit, then dress better than them. If they all have good cars, learn a foreign language or spend time in a foreign country. If every guy in a club or bar has tight game, then walk up to a girl and deliver your intro in Slovak or Mandarin. Your life should be a resume or CV in immaculate form, where any hiring manager (or girl) can take a quick glance and easily separate you from the mountain of bullshit already sitting on her desk.

I think Tuthmosis said it this way in another thread, but your mentality when gaming a girl should be "I'm the most interesting motherfucker you're ever going to meet in your life, sit down and listen to the presentation."

Self-improvement isn't about going from point A to point B, it's about being better - in body in mind - than any competitor. When it comes to game, stop thinking of it as just a means to an end, and start thinking of it as a valuable asset for many areas of life; you'll find yourself negotiating better, being more assertive, more confident at work, and getting girls easier just becomes an added bonus.

[Norset]

(02-12-2015 11:28 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

If every guy had true game women wouldn't have a welfare state. It'd be shape up or fuck off.


You know women are not logical enough as a group to improve when they cannot comprehend the incentive. They love being cat ladies given the chance proof is in the pudding.

You basically need to box them into a corner due to lack of options to keep 'em in line.

Yes.

Game is the introduction to the red pill. I found, swallowed, and digested the red pill after stumbling into success with girls after getting practical game advice from a friend. The veil was lifted, the true nature of women revealed. What other interpretations of the world did I hold that were false? The shock of understanding women is of such a magnitude that it makes a lot of men begin to reflect. There are two fundamental driving forces of men, death and sex. To quote an escapee of the North Korean concentration camp system, "Freedom is fried meat". Freedom is access to young girls.

Therefore, of the men converted to the crimson arts, the natural evolution is to take off the rose colored glasses and see the world for what is really is. This may take months, or decades. Roosh is this journey personified.

And this leads us to the consequences of ALL mean at one point giving game an earnest try, under the guidance of the masters on this forum and other manosphere blogs..

Do you think fathers would spoil their little princesses, paying for their rent while they bang men like you and me?

Do you think fat girls would get less attention?

Do you think single mothers would collect tax-payer money for their mistakes?

Do you think divorce laws would allow women to trade their man for cash and prices?

Do you think women would have the right to vote?

Find a friend who is lost. Try to help him. He may reject you. That's OK. That is how the world changes. That is how you save your civilization.

This post was inspired by Tuth's insight: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-45018-...#pid954117 - connecting the dots?

[Lizard King]

You need to do more than 'swallow and digest'. You have to live it.

When life challenges you, you will know if you're living it or just reading it.


It's an individualistic philosophy, which is why we don't care about the 'collective value' of women or men. It is an individual's responsibility to work on their own life.

[Dr. Howard]

From the OP

Quote:

Let me put it differently- if western men all one day woke up and decided to get in fantastic shape, buy stylish clothes, learn a marketable skill and get a lucrative job, and hone their game/social skills, would western men be any more successful in attracting quality women?

My answer is yes to the above question. If western men became resource wealthy, self disciplined, worldly and socially aware en masse and the women around them still sucked...they would import.

Citizenship via marriage is not restricted in the united states and if every man had the self discipline to get into excellent shape and create more wealth for themselves they wouldn't throw their hands up and say "oh well, i guess I have to settle for the girl in the next office cubicle" when it came to a mate, they would start importing women. Why, because they have decided to to make difficult personal sacrifices to improve other areas of their lives would they suddenly throw in the towel when they came to women?

[Aer]

Game is not the solution to the problem, it is adaptation to the situation.

[Peregrine]

You're right. Game (like everything in this world) is zero sum. I'll even grant you that the solution is to improve women. And how do you do that?

You disseminate game! The more game/red pill-aware men there are in Western society, the more women will improve.

You started off well, but then you put the cart before the horse.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(02-13-2015 02:01 AM)DrewP Wrote:  

You're still missing the original point. Let me put it differently- if western men all one day woke up and decided to get in fantastic shape, buy stylish clothes, learn a marketable skill and get a lucrative job, and hone their game/social skills, would western men be any more successful in attracting quality women?
...

This is a limited viewpoint regarding Game - Game is not only pick-up lines, negs and overcoming LMR.

If all men on Earth would become Game aware AND Red Pill over night, then the whole feminine imperative, Alpha Fucks Beta Bucks, hypergamy, shit tests, feminism itself - all would be laid bare. ALL men would suddenly behave differently. This would have a major impact on women as no one would take their current mating strategies seriously and they would be shamed in a previously unforeseen manner.

We don't know what the exact implications of that would be - sudden massive fat-shaming, women starting to slim down as any man would call them out on their crap, almost total full stop of all marriages, men being super-careful not to impregnate women. The entire current perverted social dynamic might come to a screeching halt!

Attractive pussy might improve within weeks and months. But your perception of a zero-sum Game is unproven - plenty of girls go weeks or even months without a bang despite getting massive amounts of dick-offers. As someone has pointed out before men might actually start importing women from all around the world instead of looking for a fat, deluded princess. Women all around the world are not in short supply - everywhere on Earth only 6% of more men are born - that difference narrows down as men die in accidents, commit suicide, go to prison.

Also trying to change women is a futile endeavor. They follow just as they followed the social engineers who financed and unleashed feminism.

[TheWastelander]

(02-13-2015 01:12 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(02-13-2015 02:01 AM)DrewP Wrote:  

You're still missing the original point. Let me put it differently- if western men all one day woke up and decided to get in fantastic shape, buy stylish clothes, learn a marketable skill and get a lucrative job, and hone their game/social skills, would western men be any more successful in attracting quality women?
...

This is a limited viewpoint regarding Game - Game is not only pick-up lines, negs and overcoming LMR.

If all men on Earth would become Game aware AND Red Pill over night, then the whole feminine imperative, Alpha Fucks Beta Bucks, hypergamy, shit tests, feminism itself - all would be laid bare. ALL men would suddenly behave differently. This would have a major impact on women as no one would take their current mating strategies seriously and they would be shamed in a previously unforeseen manner.

We don't know what the exact implications of that would be - sudden massive fat-shaming, women starting to slim up as any man would call them out on their crap, almost total full stop of all marriages, men being super-careful not to impregnate women. The entire current perverted social dynamic might come to a screeching halt!

Attractive pussy might improve within weeks and months. But your perception of a zero-sum Game is umproven - plenty of girls go weeks or even months without a bang despite getting massive amounts of dick-offers.

Also trying to change women is a futile endeavor. They follow just as they followed the social engineers who financed and unleashed feminism.

Problem is it'll never happen.

No matter how much evidence most men are shown, they will not embrace or be open to it EVEN if they hit rock bottom.

It's a tale as old as time. Most men are blind as bats in regards to women and want to remain that way. Hell, both political "sides" in this country are that way. Republicans pedestalize women, Democrats pedestalize women and shame men. Questioning basic PC assumptions is considered heresy. Pointing out these things, outside of the "manosphere" is seen as insane or "misogynistic."

To me, game is not only a way to seduce women but to navigate a dishonest decaying society and system with minimal hassle. I'm coming around to the idea that deception isn't such a bad thing in an environment that encourages dishonesty anyway.

Things are going to get worse before they get better (if they ever do) and there's nothing you can do about it but either find a way to turn a profit or get the hell out.

[JustlookingForAGoodTime]

(02-13-2015 01:26 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(02-13-2015 01:12 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(02-13-2015 02:01 AM)DrewP Wrote:  

You're still missing the original point. Let me put it differently- if western men all one day woke up and decided to get in fantastic shape, buy stylish clothes, learn a marketable skill and get a lucrative job, and hone their game/social skills, would western men be any more successful in attracting quality women?
...

This is a limited viewpoint regarding Game - Game is not only pick-up lines, negs and overcoming LMR.

If all men on Earth would become Game aware AND Red Pill over night, then the whole feminine imperative, Alpha Fucks Beta Bucks, hypergamy, shit tests, feminism itself - all would be laid bare. ALL men would suddenly behave differently. This would have a major impact on women as no one would take their current mating strategies seriously and they would be shamed in a previously unforeseen manner.

We don't know what the exact implications of that would be - sudden massive fat-shaming, women starting to slim up as any man would call them out on their crap, almost total full stop of all marriages, men being super-careful not to impregnate women. The entire current perverted social dynamic might come to a screeching halt!

Attractive pussy might improve within weeks and months. But your perception of a zero-sum Game is umproven - plenty of girls go weeks or even months without a bang despite getting massive amounts of dick-offers.

Also trying to change women is a futile endeavor. They follow just as they followed the social engineers who financed and unleashed feminism.

Problem is it'll never happen.

No matter how much evidence most men are shown, they will not embrace or be open to it EVEN if they hit rock bottom.

It's a tale as old as time. Most men are blind as bats in regards to women and want to remain that way. Hell, both political "sides" in this country are that way. Republicans pedestalize women, Democrats pedestalize women and shame men. Questioning basic PC assumptions is considered heresy. Pointing out these things, outside of the "manosphere" is seen as insane or "misogynistic."

To me, game is not only a way to seduce women but to navigate a dishonest decaying society and system with minimal hassle. I'm coming around to the idea that deception isn't such a bad thing in an environment that encourages dishonesty anyway.

Things are going to get worse before they get better (if they ever do) and there's nothing you can do about it but either find a way to turn a profit or get the hell out.

I fully agree.

Game is more than mere seduction. One could say it is the basis of a new outlook that can be quite philosophical for modern males living in the current Kafkaesque paradigm.

[MMX2010]

Game isn't supposed to save Western men. The main reason Western Men are so beta is that they've been brainwashed from birth to sacrifice their own happiness for the sake of others, especially women. So worrying about whether Game will save Western men defeats the purpose of Game: to foster your own happiness, despite everyone else's attempts to stop you.