[Saweeep]

This is most definitely terrible game, but...


Man fined £800 ($1200) for inappropriate "proposition" to woman.

Thomas Rogers, 24, of Orchard Lane, Bilbrook, approached a 20-year-old woman in the Scottish town of Thurso at around 1am on September 21 last year, repeatedly asking ‘How much?’.

Wick Sheriff Court, in the north of Scotland, heard that Rogers repeated the inquiry, despite the woman being clearly taken aback.

David Barclay, prosecuting, said: “The woman made it clear that she was unhappy about such an approach and Rogers drove away.

“The lady involved was understandably distressed by such an approach and the remarks made”.

The incident was reported to the police and Rogers admitted using threatening or abusive behaviour.

He admitted he was responsible and described his remark as ‘childish’ and ‘a stupid thing to have done’ adding that it was ‘just a bit of banter’ for the benefit of his two passengers.

Sheriff Andrew Berry said: “It was an awful thing to do to a woman walking home on her own.

“She was entitled to feel she was safe from such boorish and truly pathetic behaviour which would grossly offend any level-headed person.”

Fiona MacDonald, defending, told the court that Rogers ‘deeply regretted’ the incident.

[Sp5]

I have no problem with this. It's a fine, not jail time. Appropriately and leniently penalized.

Soliciting for prostitution is also a crime in many jurisdictions.

Picture how it happened. This happened at 1 am. In a small town in the north of Scotland. Likely no people around. A young woman is walking on the sidewalk when a car with three men pull alongside her and the driver keeps asking "How much?" In a strange (English) accent, indicating not local guys. Repeatedly, while the car was following her. Damn right that is threatening in context.

[Deluge]

(02-09-2015 07:39 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  

I have no problem with this. It's a fine, not jail time. Appropriately and leniently penalized.

Soliciting for prostitution is also a crime in many jurisdictions.

Picture how it happened. This happened at 1 am. In a small town in the north of Scotland. Likely no people around. A young woman is walking on the sidewalk when a car with three men pull alongside her and the driver keeps asking "How much?" In a strange (English) accent, indicating not local guys. Repeatedly, while the car was following her. Damn right that is threatening in context.

Threatening or not (which it was) what he did was illegal in the first place. My guess is in typical British fashion he was hammered after a night out and decided to be a fucking idiot in public and behind the wheel too, I have zero sympathy.

If only the authorities in Rotherham took things so seriously.

[eradicator]

yeah, he was a moron, but for a variety of reasons. I don't even understand how he was caught? Couldn't he have just said "no you got the wrong car"? why was he so eager to incriminate himself?

[Sp5]

(02-09-2015 07:49 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 07:39 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  

I have no problem with this. It's a fine, not jail time. Appropriately and leniently penalized.

Soliciting for prostitution is also a crime in many jurisdictions.

Picture how it happened. This happened at 1 am. In a small town in the north of Scotland. Likely no people around. A young woman is walking on the sidewalk when a car with three men pull alongside her and the driver keeps asking "How much?" In a strange (English) accent, indicating not local guys. Repeatedly, while the car was following her. Damn right that is threatening in context.

Threatening or not (which it was) what he did was illegal in the first place. My guess is in typical British fashion he was hammered after a night out and decided to be a fucking idiot in public and behind the wheel too, I have zero sympathy.

If only the authorities in Rotherham took things so seriously.

That was my other thought. He almost certainly skated on what would have been a drunk driving charge had he been arrested on the spot.

(02-09-2015 07:54 AM)eradicator Wrote:  

yeah, he was a moron, but for a variety of reasons. I don't even understand how he was caught? Couldn't he have just said "no you got the wrong car"? why was he so eager to incriminate himself?

Who knows? Someone got the license plate, it was a small town, they knew where he was staying. The UK is full of cameras, too. Perjury is a crime. A plea bargain, leniency in response to his admission of guilt. It's not like every case becomes the OJ trial.

[Saweeep]

If I was given a fine for every time I said something stupid to someone I'd be very, very poor.

There is nothing threatening about what he did.

Loutish, yes. Low-class, yes. Pathetic, yes. Worthy of a huge amount of public expense and a consequent fine? No way.

[Saweeep]

(02-09-2015 07:55 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  

That was my other thought. He almost certainly skated on what would have been a drunk driving charge had he been arrested on the spot.

To be fair, you don't know that.

[Sp5]

(02-09-2015 08:06 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

If I was given a fine for every time I said something stupid to someone I'd be very, very poor.

There is nothing threatening about what he did.

Loutish, yes. Low-class, yes. Pathetic, yes. Worthy of a huge amount of public expense and a consequent fine? No way.

Three drunken young males on a deserted street at 1 am following a single female, hooting and hollering, wanting sex for money? Yeah, nothing threatening about that. Would you like that to happen to your daughter, girlfriend or mother?

There wasn't a huge amount of public expense. The police, courts and prosecutors get paid anyways. Likely the public comes out ahead when he pays the 800 quid.

[Deluge]

(02-09-2015 08:06 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

If I was given a fine for every time I said something stupid to someone I'd be very, very poor.

There is nothing threatening about what he did.

Loutish, yes. Low-class, yes. Pathetic, yes. Worthy of a huge amount of public expense and a consequent fine? No way.

If three drunk dudes in a car were following me down the street at 1 am with no one else around and refusing to leave me alone, I'd feel threatened for my safety. Most people would be too, except for Little Dark of course.

[Sp5]

(02-09-2015 08:12 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  

[quote] (02-09-2015 08:06 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

If I was given a fine for every time I said something stupid to someone I'd be very, very poor.

There is nothing threatening about what he did.

Loutish, yes. Low-class, yes. Pathetic, yes. Worthy of a huge amount of public expense and a consequent fine? No way.

Three drunken young males on a deserted street at 1 am following a single female, hooting and hollering, wanting sex for money? Yeah, nothing threatening about that. Would you like that to happen to your daughter, girlfriend or mother?

There wasn't a huge amount of public expense. The police, courts and prosecutors get paid anyways. Likely the public comes out ahead when he pays the 800 quid.

(02-09-2015 08:07 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

That was my other thought. He almost certainly skated on what would have been a drunk driving charge had he been arrested on the spot.

To be fair, you don't know that.

Not absolutely, but that is the most consistent explanation correlating to my 58 years of observing human behaviour. Strong circumstantial evidence, 1 am and bad behaviour - but not enough to convict.

You're not Mr. Rogers himself by any chance?

[Saweeep]

(02-09-2015 08:13 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 08:06 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

If I was given a fine for every time I said something stupid to someone I'd be very, very poor.

There is nothing threatening about what he did.

Loutish, yes. Low-class, yes. Pathetic, yes. Worthy of a huge amount of public expense and a consequent fine? No way.

If three drunk dudes in a car were following me down the street at 1 am with no one else around and refusing to leave me alone, I'd feel threatened for my safety. Most people would be too, except for Little Dark of course.

I forgot to put this line in the quote from the article:

Quote:

A Wolverhampton man has been fined £800 for making an inappropriate proposition to a woman as she left a nightclub

No mention of dark unlit Scottish lanes.

[Pinocchio]

Sounds reasonable to me

[Lizard King]

I think £800 is excessive.

That's a month's rent for some people in the UK.

£50-£100 would have been fairer in my opinion.

[aphelion]

This is a Hot Coffee. One of those cases that at first sounds ridiculous and overblown until you actually dig into the details a bit.

[Geomann180]

No one's feelings are worth £800.

Women wonder why they used to not be allowed anywhere unescorted.

G

[lavidaloca]

Fine is too low in my opinion. In this case the guy was being a complete jackass. The fine should be higher to deter acting in a similar way.

[Saweeep]

(02-10-2015 09:28 AM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

Fine is too low in my opinion. In this case the guy was being a complete jackass. The fine should be higher to deter acting in a similar way.

Was he?

We don't know a great deal. He seems to think it was very lighthearted and humorous.

Point is; all we have is a guy thinking he's being funny and a woman taking offence to it...no mention of witnesses or anything else.

I find it a worrying precedent.

[Kieran]

He was clearly just having a laugh. People need to lighten up.

[godfather dust]

Anyone who pursues his legal strategy (tell the police everything) deserves whatever they get, so they learn to shut the fuck up around cops.

[JWLZG]

(02-10-2015 07:18 AM)Geomann180 Wrote:  

No one's feelings are worth £800.

It's not as if she got to pocket the 800 quid. Unless she decides to file a civil suit against him, but that's another matter.

(02-10-2015 09:33 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 09:28 AM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

Fine is too low in my opinion. In this case the guy was being a complete jackass. The fine should be higher to deter acting in a similar way.

Was he?

We don't know a great deal. He seems to think it was very lighthearted and humorous.

Point is; all we have is a guy thinking he's being funny and a woman taking offence to it...no mention of witnesses or anything else.

I find it a worrying precedent.

It's not a simple matter of getting your feeeeelings in a knot just because some random bloke who could've been construed as a creep called out something you didn't like.
This was a repeated, threatening and aggressive advance in the small hours, in a matter where he thought he could show off how big his cock was.

Would your take on this incident have been the same if the target was a man? I've had sundry matter of less than savoury advances thrown my way by drunk dickheads around 01am, from the mildly bemusing to the genuinely threatening. Funnily enough, they've occurred overwhelmingly in the Anglosphere (and even then mostly here in Australia). Even if I could've reasonably kicked the perpetrator's arse, I'd have a right not to be under any form of threat in the first place.
If being drunk and disorderly and creating a public nuisance are criminal offences, I don't think they should be let off the hook any less just because the victim was a chick with a presumed 'snowflake' mentality.
It fulfils the definition of assault in any common law jurisdiction. I don't think the Scottish legal system has much of a white knighting complex.

Apart from being guilty of soliciting prostitution, he was also intoxicated while in control of a vehicle. I personally am not for harsh punishments, but he's got a pretty solid case stacked against him.

[UnW]

I wonder if he'll get a criminal record over this.