[Saweeep]

BBC: MPs say yes to three person babies

Quote:

The first attempt could take place this year, which could lead to the first birth in 2016.

Like many things we see around us, the initial reasoning for allowing a third parent's DNA to be sliced into an embryo seems sound enough; that less than a percent of a third party's DNA can prevent the inheritance of some less than pleasant conditions.

Quote:

Mitochondria are the tiny compartments inside nearly every cell of the body that convert food into useable energy. They have their own DNA, which does not affect characteristics such as appearance.

Defective mitochondria are passed down only from the mother. They can lead to brain damage, muscle wasting, heart failure and blindness.

The technique uses a modified version of IVF to combine the DNA of the two parents with the healthy mitochondria of a donor woman.

It results in babies with 0.1% of their DNA from the second woman and is a permanent change that would be passed down through the generations.

However, like many things we see around us, once the cat is out of the bag, the potential consequences don't seem quite so benign:

Quote:

Fiona Bruce, the MP for Congleton, countered: "[This] will be passed down generations, the implications of this simply cannot be predicted.

"But one thing is for sure, once this alteration has taken place, as someone has said, once the gene is out of the bottle, once these procedures that we're asked to authorise today go ahead, there will be no going back for society."

Quote:

Last week the Catholic and Anglican Churches in England said the idea was not safe or ethical, not least because it involved the destruction of embryos.

Other groups, including Human Genetics Alert, say the move would open the door to further genetic modification of children in the future - so-called designer babies, genetically modified for beauty, intelligence or to be free of disease.

David King, from the campaign group, said: "Once you cross the ethical line, it is very hard not to take the next step of designer babies."

Dr Gillian Lockwood, a reproductive ethicist, told the BBC it was a "small change" in the legislation.

"The biggest problem is that this has been described as three-parent IVF. In fact it is 2.001-parent IVF," she said.

"Less than a tenth of one per cent of the genome is actually going to be affected. It is not part of what makes us genetically who we are.

Quote:

"It doesn't affect height, eye colour, intelligence, musicality."

Yes, but for how long?

Now, like all scientific discoveries and techniques, it won't be long before this technique is available in the private sector around the world; a place where if you have enough $$$, anything and everything is available.

Perhaps I am being slightly ridiculous, but I can't help but think of HG Wells' prediction of a two-tier human race taking one step closer as a result of these techniques,the Eloi and Morlocks foretold by Wells in his 1895 novel The Time Machine: a genetic upper class and a dim-witted underclass.



Will my children be able, if they can afford it, to have their unborn embryo's spliced with the DNA of a world class sportsman, a nobel winning scientist, a Victoria Secret's model?

There are just too many fucked up scenarios one can predict from widespread application of this technology.

[Foolsgo1d]

If someone gave me the opportunity to have a son(s) I would want to ensure they have the best foundation to start from.

If this procedure were to advance and allow gene manipulation;

Stronger, faster, smarter, better looking? Sure, why not. I just don't have the money to pay for such things but to say how its a matter of right and wrong is delusional. Every person in the world would want their children to have this procedure if it meant them having a far better life.

Poor people don't like being poor and they won't be able to have this. This is a case of haves and have nots. And if it leads to a system where superior human beings are grown then thats just a fact of nature. A superior species will always rise above its lesser counterpart.

[Saweeep]

(02-04-2015 06:37 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

If someone gave me the opportunity to have a son(s) I would want to ensure they have the best foundation to start from.

If this procedure were to advance and allow gene manipulation;

Stronger, faster, smarter, better looking? Sure, why not. I just don't have the money to pay for such things but to say how its a matter of right and wrong is delusional. Every person in the world would want their children to have this procedure if it meant them having a far better life.

Poor people don't like being poor and they won't be able to have this. This is a case of haves and have nots. And if it leads to a system where superior human beings are grown then thats just a fact of nature. A superior species will always rise above its lesser counterpart.

I agree; I am all for elitism.

If anything, this should just be another wake up call for all RVFers to get their shit together and ensure they are in or as close to being in the 1% as is possible.

It will just become another cost of parenting along with private education, dental care, sports lessons etc.

What the social costs and implications will be is another matter altogether though

[SteveMcMahon]

Really, I don't know why they're bothering with this expensive and complicated nonsense.

If women want superior sperm, I've got loads of jizz and can deliver.



As long as they're not fat or old.

[ChrisPitts]

I don't understand why this kind of shit is necessary. There are already 7 billion of us. We reproduce just fine. Infant mortality is at an all-time low and the vast majority of babies grow up into normal, healthy adults.

Quote:

Fiona Bruce, the MP for Congleton, countered: "[This] will be passed down generations, the implications of this simply cannot be predicted.

"But one thing is for sure, once this alteration has taken place, as someone has said, once the gene is out of the bottle, once these procedures that we're asked to authorise today go ahead, there will be no going back for society."

This is what scares me. Sure, now it's a simple change to interject someone else's mitochondria into the baby, but what happens after several generations? What are the unintended consequences once this gets into the mainstream? New diseases formed from having different mitochondria? Less immunity from existing diseases? What if it it turns cancerous?

There are too many things at risk for this to be taken seriously and little to nothing to gain.

[Mage]

Another implication is that this will make physical sex obsolete and will make it easier to outlaw it.

Society already hates sex. It only tolerates it because of the need to have babies and because it sells.

Although an illusion is created that sex is being popularized to sell consumer goods, but actually marketers prefer people to stay sexless and frustrated in real life.

Now if genetically/mitohondically modified laborotory babies become the norm, it wouldn't be long before all normal sex will be called rape even regardless of consent. Sex might also be declared evil and backwards because it creates "inferior" or even "non-standard" or "non-pattented and registrated genome type" babies.

[Saga]

This reeks of hubris and dystopia...so naturally it's been approved. But I suppose you can win support for any lunacy so long as you dress it up in the rhetoric of 'progress'.

[JJ Roberts]

Seems like progress to me.

[Saga]

(02-04-2015 06:37 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

A superior species will always rise above its lesser counterpart.

AI is often superior to humans in many areas. Should we therefore acquiesce to robotic dominance? Should we welcome it as progress? We can all disagree but let's be clear on where this path leads: the potential end of humanity as a distinguishable species.

[dispenser]

(02-04-2015 06:43 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(...)
If anything, this should just be another wake up call for all RVFers to get their shit together and ensure they are in or as close to being in the 1% as is possible.
(...)

This.
I'd give it twenty years or so to see what goes wrong with the first batch before trying it, though.

The obvious (legal) problem is that women will find it 'creepy' that we don't necessarily want their defective mitochondria for our heir.

[AntiTrace]

Quote:

Defective mitochondria are passed down only from the mother.

Those trifiling ass bitches.

[Dark Knowledge]

Nice scientific advancement if it can produce some medical benefit for the child.

Otherwise it's completely unnecessary.

I can picture a scenario where a woman can convince her side boyfriend and her cuckold husband into doing this

[freeuser]

(02-04-2015 06:37 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

Poor people don't like being poor and they won't be able to have this. This is a case of haves and have nots. And if it leads to a system where superior human beings are grown then thats just a fact of nature. A superior species will always rise above its lesser counterpart.

Have you seen Gattaca? Maybe you should give it a watch.

[Pinocchio]

I'm all for medical advancements

[zigZag]

So this is Essential GMO Babies. It's Quite funny that you'll see the same people who are Fighting tooth and nail against GMO Foods are gonna suddenly support GMO Babies.

[TheWastelander]

I don't really have a problem with preventing birth defects or correcting congenital diseases, because I know I sure as shit don't want them and wouldn't want my children to suffer from them.

I am concerned about the other implications of this sort of technology, though. Will we all be ruled over by super intelligent Übermensch in the future? Will being a normal, unmodified person be seen as quaint and outmoded? Will they get special privileges in society?

[TravelerKai]

And people were worried about AI.

Let them play God. Everything they try to do backfires hardcore. Allergies and Hormone disruption is still laughing at the human race right now for our high-tech hygiene practices, and these dumbass scientists cannot even figure that out. Now they think they can overcome this and more with this shit? Any babies like this will be missing something key, have a shorter life, or have something else go very wrong. Mark my words.

[TheWastelander]

(02-04-2015 09:58 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

And people were worried about AI.

Let them play God. Everything they try to do backfires hardcore. Allergies and Hormone disruption is still laughing at the human race right now for our high-tech hygiene practices, and these dumbass scientists cannot even figure that out. Now they think they can overcome this and more with this shit? Any babies like this will be missing something key, have a shorter life, or have something else go very wrong. Mark my words.

I don't know. For example, a lot of the failed clones were due to the scientists using adult cells. They've switched to using embryonic cells when possible and now have a pretty decent success rate. They're going to figure this all out and perfect it sooner or later.

The future is going to be weird as hell.

[TravelerKai]

(02-04-2015 10:07 AM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(02-04-2015 09:58 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

And people were worried about AI.

Let them play God. Everything they try to do backfires hardcore. Allergies and Hormone disruption is still laughing at the human race right now for our high-tech hygiene practices, and these dumbass scientists cannot even figure that out. Now they think they can overcome this and more with this shit? Any babies like this will be missing something key, have a shorter life, or have something else go very wrong. Mark my words.

I don't know. For example, a lot of the failed clones were due to the scientists using adult cells. They've switched to using embryonic cells when possible and now have a pretty decent success rate. They're going to figure this all out and perfect it sooner or later.

The future is going to be weird as hell.

Perfect it? You must not be an engineer or some discipline that designs anything for a living. There is no such thing. The best things are designed to be fault tolerant, durable, or stress resistant to some degree. Never perfect.

I can only think of German engineered cars as being designed to be perfect. Yeah and when they break they break badly!

[zombiejimmorrison]

If it works, it will be helpful to many people and create better genes for humans. If they don't make it work now, it will be left to future generations that will make it work. This is the next step of evolution, humans will make evolution faster than nature. It's progress in the species.

I don't see how this could become dangerous, if its left in the private sector it will become cheaper every year, if there is a demand for it. This will happen eventually just like how cars replaced carts, there will be no going back if its safe and takes off in this century.

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

I see nothing wrong with this. On the contrary, it is another chance given to us by science and modern technology to improve our genes, the lives of our successors/heirs/children, and that of humanity as a whole if this becomes widespread. The possibilities are truly endless; this isn't limited to preventing diseases linked to certain genes. It makes me a bit sad that we were all born before this astounding discovery but it is still a very goof thing that future generations will be able to enjoy this technology's possible benefits. Sure, we'll never achieve perfection as such a thing is humanly-possible but we'll get a bit closer.

Has anyone thought of a potential disadvantage? As an eternal cynic I'd like to know what could possibly go wrong with this procedure.

[big poppa]

'Brave New World', anyone?

Can't see how people can support this idea.

[GeroMeroHero]

This will be interesting...
I predict lots of people will be giving their kids blonde hair and blue eyes (since sperm donors with those features get sold out) and then someone will cry racism.
That will be the end of that.

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

(02-04-2015 08:49 PM)GeroMeroHero Wrote:  

This will be interesting...
I predict lots of people will be giving their kids blonde hair and blue eyes (since sperm donors with those features get sold out) and then someone will cry racism.
That will be the end of that.

And in a hundred years' time or so we'll realise just how foolish we were; we'll remember the first century of this millennium as humanity's return to mob 'justice' and the century that saw the rise to political correctness and third-/fourth-wave feminism. Or maybe we'll realise our foolishness soon and revert at least some of the damage. The considerable amount of growth this community experienced in that past year gives me hope even if just a little.

[Paracelsus]

This whole discussion keeps sending me back to Michael Crichton, and in particular what his mouthpiece David Malcolm had to say about science and unintended consequences in Jurassic Park.