[Catch 22]

I'm kinda kinda new to this, so I'd appreciate any thoughts.

I was at Continental in Arlington (DC/VA) tonight, not the best venue but a 7.5 caught my attention. She was with a 5 and a guy. The guy seemed to be focusing more on the 5 (weird) more and the 7.5 looked bored, so I figured it was a decent chance to approach. So when my friends left, I was in dolo mode with a pretty full drink left, so I walked up and opened with Roosh's standby "You guys look you're having the most fun out of everybody here." That seemed to go ok and they brought me into the group - and I managed to tease the 7.5 a little and work in a disqualifier about how we'd never work. But admittedly I was hardly in control of the conversation. Turns out the girls were friends and the guy had approached them before me.

I've had a few approaches lately where I let them get away without even a number close, but later regretted it. So when they said they had to leave, I went for an admittedly desperation number close. She said earlier that she was getting her Master's Degree in a couple days, so I said "I normally don't date girls without Master's Degrees, but once you get yours we should go grab a drink." She said she had a boyfriend.

I seem to be getting the "I have a boyfriend" response more than I would have expected. Do you think I happen to just be picking women that have boyfriends? Or is this just a line meaning "you didn't impress me quickly enough"?

Any thoughts, mistakes, or tips on what I could have done better? At this point, I'm just pleased I approached, but I'd like to step it up here pretty soon.

I'm pretty f'ing picky, which is a problem (for now, but could be an asset later). I went up to a big group after this and got some obvious IOI's from a 5/6 (multiple arm touches within minutes when I spat zero game and she asked my name), but I just wasn't that interested. Can't seem to get myself to ladder up from the easy to land 6s yet. It's been tough when I'm only interested in 7+s but my game isn't back there yet (spent 7 years with a LTR).

[Tuthmosis]

(05-04-2011 11:03 PM)Catch 22 Wrote:  

I seem to be getting the "I have a boyfriend" response more than I would have expected. Do you think I happen to just be picking women that have boyfriends? Or is this just a line meaning "you didn't impress me quickly enough"?

I've definitely noticed a marked spike it its use. It seems the "I have a boyfriend" line has become fashionable again with the bitches. That's my humble conclusion, anyway, based on my observations and the word on the street. I think it's a cyclical thing, or they meet at an annual convention and discuss this shit.

We should probably innovate some new ways to handle it (apart from ignoring it and just barreling through it, which is what I've been doing since this latest re-emergence).

The old stand-bys are tired as shit:

Girl: "Sorry, I have a boyfriend."

Player:

1. "I just met you and are you're already telling me your problems."

2. "So what." a.k.a. "I don't care."

3. "Where is he tonight?" [supposed to create doubt in her mind; complete bullshit that never worked]

4. "Me too!" [supposed to be funny/disarming]

[gringochileno]

(05-04-2011 11:16 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(05-04-2011 11:03 PM)Catch 22 Wrote:  

I seem to be getting the "I have a boyfriend" response more than I would have expected. Do you think I happen to just be picking women that have boyfriends? Or is this just a line meaning "you didn't impress me quickly enough"?

I've definitely noticed a marked spike it its use. It seems the "I have a boyfriend" line has become fashionable again with the bitches. That's my humble conclusion, anyway, based on my observations and the word on the street. I think it's a cyclical thing or they meet an annual convention and discuss this shit.

We should probably innovate some new ways to handle it (apart from ignoring it and just barreling through it, which is what I've been doing since this latest re-emergence).

The old stand-bys are tired as shit:

Girl: "Sorry, I have a boyfriend."

Player:

1. "I just met you, and are you're already telling me your problems."

2. "So what." a.k.a. "I don't care."

3. "Where is he tonight?" [supposed to create doubt in her mind; complete bullshit that never worked]

4. "Me too!" [supposed to be funny/disarming]

I'm not convinced every girl has heard those stock answers a million times, you'd be surprised how many guys will just shut down, take the girl at her word, and assume they have no chance instead of continuing to spit game. However, I'm down to get some more solid responses out there. What do you think of these?

"So does my girlfriend."

Or:

Player: "I have a goldfish."
Girl: "Huh?"
Player: "I thought we were talking about shit that doesn't matter."

Or:

"Cool, I bet he's awesome. He can totally do the dishes and take care of the dog while we're getting drinks."

Or:

"Do you always flirt with guys when he's not around?"

[Screwston]

Yeah, the boyfriend line is starting to annoy me. Those lines will make her laugh but how do u convince her to still give u her number?

[gringochileno]

(05-04-2011 11:54 PM)houston Wrote:  

Yeah, the boyfriend line is starting to annoy me. Those lines will make her laugh but how do u convince her to still give u her number?

Cut the thread and keep gaming like she never said it. The subtext of all of these is that it's a silly little shit-test that you just swatted away.

[Gmac]

(05-05-2011 12:01 AM)gringochileno Wrote:  

(05-04-2011 11:54 PM)houston Wrote:  

Yeah, the boyfriend line is starting to annoy me. Those lines will make her laugh but how do u convince her to still give u her number?

Cut the thread and keep gaming like she never said it. The subtext of all of these is that it's a silly little shit-test that you just swatted away.

Yeah, the worst thing you can do is swat the shit test and then start talking/asking about the boyfriend again.

[Roosh]

Quote:

"I normally don't date girls without Master's Degrees, but once you get yours we should go grab a drink.

Needy close line... you just asked her to date you. You might as well ask her to be your girlfriend.

Next time just ask if she wants to grab a drink.

Your goal seems to be numbers... therefore you will not be getting more than numbers. Unless you kiss a girl, number is close to worthless, especially these days.

[gringochileno]

(05-05-2011 10:25 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

"I normally don't date girls without Master's Degrees, but once you get yours we should go grab a drink.

Needy close line... you just asked her to date you. You might as well ask her to be your girlfriend.

Next time just ask if she wants to grab a drink.

Your goal seems to be numbers... therefore you will not be getting more than numbers. Unless you kiss a girl, number is close to worthless, especially these days.

Roosh, what do you mean by this exactly? When I only get a phone number with no kiss, I've actually been getting the girl out on a date a reasonable proportion of the time, between 1 out of every 3 and and 1 out of 2. Obviously it's better to try and bang on the same night, but these numbers still don't seem "close to worthless" to me. Are you saying something different, like that it takes more work to convert that date into a notch when you haven't already kissed the girl?

[Gmac]

(05-05-2011 10:38 AM)gringochileno Wrote:  

(05-05-2011 10:25 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

"I normally don't date girls without Master's Degrees, but once you get yours we should go grab a drink.

Needy close line... you just asked her to date you. You might as well ask her to be your girlfriend.

Next time just ask if she wants to grab a drink.

Your goal seems to be numbers... therefore you will not be getting more than numbers. Unless you kiss a girl, number is close to worthless, especially these days.

Roosh, what do you mean by this exactly? When I only get a phone number with no kiss, I've actually been getting the girl out on a date a reasonable proportion of the time, between 1 out of every 3 and and 1 out of 2. Obviously it's better to try and bang on the same night, but these numbers still don't seem "close to worthless" to me. Are you saying something different, like that it takes more work to convert that date into a notch when you haven't already kissed the girl?

Absolutely, its more work. You're starting out with less attraction and comfort built. Numbers without a kiss are fairly meaningless for night game.

[gringochileno]

(05-05-2011 11:41 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

(05-05-2011 10:38 AM)gringochileno Wrote:  

(05-05-2011 10:25 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

"I normally don't date girls without Master's Degrees, but once you get yours we should go grab a drink.

Needy close line... you just asked her to date you. You might as well ask her to be your girlfriend.

Next time just ask if she wants to grab a drink.

Your goal seems to be numbers... therefore you will not be getting more than numbers. Unless you kiss a girl, number is close to worthless, especially these days.

Roosh, what do you mean by this exactly? When I only get a phone number with no kiss, I've actually been getting the girl out on a date a reasonable proportion of the time, between 1 out of every 3 and and 1 out of 2. Obviously it's better to try and bang on the same night, but these numbers still don't seem "close to worthless" to me. Are you saying something different, like that it takes more work to convert that date into a notch when you haven't already kissed the girl?

Absolutely, its more work. You're starting out with less attraction and comfort built. Numbers without a kiss are fairly meaningless for night game.

I agree, but that still means that maybe I make out on date 1 and bang on date 2 or 3 instead of getting the notch on the first date. For me at least, that's still far from worthless. I'm wondering if Roosh has a different experience than this or if he meant something different from what I'm interpreting his statement to mean.

[Roosh]

I don't want to bash numbers. It's given me the bulk of my lays, but flake percentage is so high that if you're solely going for numbers, you're missing on a lot of potential hookups.

gringochileno: what percentage of numbers what you say is getting to the first date?

My point is that guys would do themselves a favor is they go as far as they can the night they meet her instead of hoping to see her again in the future.

[gringochileno]

(05-05-2011 02:02 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

gringochileno: what percentage of numbers what you say is getting to the first date?

Assuming I didn't kiss her, somewhere between 1/3 and half. Don't get me wrong, I know how important it is to push for as much as you can get and my odds have definitely gone way up when I get something to go along with the number like a makeout, venue change, or going home with her. I'm just saying a girl is far from a lost cause just because she only gave you her number.

[Roosh]

Quote:

I'm just saying a girl is far from a lost cause just because she only gave you her number.

Agreed. When I wrote my earlier comment, it was in the tone of "Don't get excited about getting a number, since more than 50% of the time it won't lead to a date."

[gringochileno]

(05-05-2011 02:13 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

I'm just saying a girl is far from a lost cause just because she only gave you her number.

Agreed. When I wrote my earlier comment, it was in the tone of "Don't get excited about getting a number, since more than 50% of the time it won't lead to a date."

At a 50% conversion rate, get 5 numbers and there's a 97% chance that you'll get a date out of at least one of them.

[Roosh]

Yes but most guys get under 25%.

33% is a good goal.

[gringochileno]

Even at 25% you're still at a 76% chance of a date after 5 numbers. For a 33% conversion rate it's 86%. Like any other part of this stuff it's a numbers game and if you get enough phone numbers you will get laid, just like approaching until you hit your fuck number.

[CupCake]

(05-05-2011 10:25 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Your goal seems to be numbers... therefore you will not be getting more than numbers. Unless you kiss a girl, number is close to worthless, especially these days.

*epiphany* O_O

[Catch 22]

(05-05-2011 10:25 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Next time just ask if she wants to grab a drink.

Shit, that would be a lot easier. Why's that the way to go?

Agreed though, number close was just a last resort because they were leaving and I didn't have a chance to isolate. Wouldn't have been surprised if she flaked and wasn't that surprised by the bf comment. The best I came up with in response, unfortunately, was "He wouldn't be ok with that?"

So gmac, I like the idea of ignoring the shit test and continuing gaming. So what would that mean in this situation? Just repeat the question?

Tuthmosis, we gotta send some moles in and fix that convention.

[gringoed]

I'm starting to think that if you're not at least like 75% direct with your game, then night game is not for you since you'll prolong the interaction until all that's left is a flaky phone number.

[CJ]

(05-05-2011 10:25 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

"I normally don't date girls without Master's Degrees, but once you get yours we should go grab a drink.

Needy close line... you just asked her to date you. You might as well ask her to be your girlfriend.

Next time just ask if she wants to grab a drink.

Your goal seems to be numbers... therefore you will not be getting more than numbers. Unless you kiss a girl, number is close to worthless, especially these days.

Most of those lines came off as kind of amateur to me, except maybe the Goldfish one.

As for going 75% direct, it varies, but that sounds about right. Every situation is different though, so you need to know how to flip quickly between direct and indirect at times. Only way to get good is practice, practice, practice.

[Gmac]

(05-05-2011 11:36 PM)Catch 22 Wrote:  

(05-05-2011 10:25 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Next time just ask if she wants to grab a drink.

Shit, that would be a lot easier. Why's that the way to go?

Agreed though, number close was just a last resort because they were leaving and I didn't have a chance to isolate. Wouldn't have been surprised if she flaked and wasn't that surprised by the bf comment. The best I came up with in response, unfortunately, was "He wouldn't be ok with that?"

So gmac, I like the idea of ignoring the shit test and continuing gaming. So what would that mean in this situation? Just repeat the question?

No, I would pretend she never brought up the boyfriend and take the flow of the conversation somewhere else. If she's leaving anyway just keep pushing for it (what do you have to lose)? Just don't sound desperate.

"Well give it to me just in case."
"Write it on my arm" (girls love this shit, just remember to bring a marker/pen).
"Are you always this difficult?" (overly exaggerated/sarcastic for effect)