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France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets
#1

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

France hands out first fines for anti-gay tweets

http://m.thelocal.fr/20150121/twitter-homophobic-france

Three French Twitter users were fined this week for sending tweets that included homophobic hashtags. It's the first time a French court has handed out convictions for homophobic abuse on Twitter.

The convictions date back to offences committed in 2013 when several homophobic hashtags appeared on Twitter in France, including "Gays must die because...", (#Lesgaysdoiventdisparaîtrecar).

The three who were convicted in the Paris court this week posted tweets using the hashtag "let’s burn the gays on..." (#brûlonslesgayssurdu).

The case against the three had been brought by French charity Comité Idaho, which organizes the International Day Against Homophobia in France.

It had filed a complaint against the users for inciting hatred and violence on the basis of sexual orientation.

The punishments handed down however were fairly light - one was fined €300 while the other two were forced to pay €500 - given the maximum punishment is up to a year in prison and a €45,000 fine.

Although all three were forced to pay the same amount to Comité Idaho, which welcomed the ruling this week.

“It’s a significant victory,” Alexandre Marcel, president of the Comité Idaho, told The Local. “But it’s a small amount to pay for calling for the death of homosexuals.”

Gay rights groups in France regularly report homophobic hashtags, which Twitter then removes from trending topics to make them less visible.

But in August 2013 the hashtag #lesgaysdoiventdisparaîtrecar (Gays must die because), was displayed at the top of the list, and wasn't immediately taken down. France's then government spokeswoman Najat Vallaud-Belkacem was forced to step in and took to Twitter herself to denounce the trend.

“I condemn homophobic tweets. Our work with Twitter and groups against homophobia is essential,” she said at the time.

Wednesday's court ruling was also welcomed by "SOS Homophobie", which reports on homophobic tweets.

“We’re positive that this will send out the message that the Internet is not a place with no rules where you can do whatever you want,” Yohann Roszewitch, president of the association told The Local.

Last year the anti-homophobia association released a report revealing that the number of homophobic acts in France had increased by 78 percent in 2013, the year in which gay marriage was legalized.

According to the association the huge surge in the number of homophobic incidents was without doubt linked to the bitter row over the legalization of gay marriage, which divided France and led to mass demonstrations that frequently ended in violent clashes between police and extremists.

This isn’t the first time that Twitter has been embroiled in controversy in France surrounding hateful messages.

In July 2013, The Local reported how the website was forced by a French court’s ruling to hand over information identifying Twitter users who had published anti-Semitic comments, including under the term #UnBonJuif (A good Jew).

Speaking after the court’s decision, lawyer Philippe Schmidt told The Local that remarks made on Twitter should be treated the same as if they were made in any public forum.

by Simone Flückiger

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#2

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

It's okay... these fines will prevent a terrorist attack.
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#3

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

I mean, the fact that they were saying that gays should be burned alive steps over several boundaries, gay or not.

Now if it was something slightly less harmful, then I think there's a freedom of speech issue.
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#4

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

Yup. Because protecting the feelings of .01% of the population is top priority.

[Image: tinfoilhat.gif]

Team Nachos
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#5

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

I'm guessing these tweeters were NOT Muslims. Muslims would probably be given a pass for homophobic posts.
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#6

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

Free speech is dead in France...unless you're Muslim then the French government cowers before you.
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#7

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

First the mayor of Paris claims they are going to sue Fox News because they "insulted their city" with the no-go zone coverage, and now they are handing out fines over gay tweets?

Yet the only response to a terrorist attack is a lame ass march through the city?

What a bunch of pussies.
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#8

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

Ahhh... France... always the first of us to fall.

[Image: french.jpg]
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#9

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

^^

[Image: mr_chang_senor_chang_laugh_spits_milk.gif]

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#10

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

''Gays must die because...'' is hate speech. Hate speech is not covered by free speech. The fines are in order. What is to argue about?
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#11

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

The lack of civil liberties in France gives me the crepes.

Founding Member of TEAM DOUBLE WRAPPED CONDOMS
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#12

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

Quote: (01-22-2015 02:55 AM)Switch Wrote:  

The lack of civil liberties in France gives me the crepes.

[Image: laugh3.gif]
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#13

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

Hate speech should be free too. It was in America when it was a free country, and may still be, for a little longer, if you're not in the belly of the PC beast. For example, StormFront is a legal website.

The traditional way of addressing this is to say "I disagree with what you are saying, but I will fight for your right to say it". Sadly, these values are not held by the SJWs, and they are fighting hard to remove free speech.

The fines are shameful.

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#14

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

Okay, "hate speech" as a concept is total bullshit. Actions, not words, are what matters.

If I say "I hope you die in a fire while rabid porcupines are raping your ass because you have red hair" you can be offended, and that's the end of it.

There's no threat there. There's no harm done. And there's absolutely no reason for the government to get involved.

If I said "I'm going to set you on fire while my pack of angry trained porcupines runs a train on your ass," and I not only own a porcupine farm but have some gasoline cans, rope, and a road flare in the back of my truck, okay, you might consider that a credible threat and want someone to step in.

Once you say that having the wrong opinions and daring to voice them is a crime, you open up the floodgates that hold back massive government abuse.

Do I think gays should die because of whatever reason? No. Do I think these guys should say that? No. But I am not going to stop them from saying it, because that is their right. And until they takes harmful action, either by planning attacks on gays--and I'm still pretty fucking skeptical of calling planning a crime a criminal act--or actually going out and curbstomping them, I do not support any government action against them.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Sound familiar?

I find it amazing that I have to say this sort of thing over and over again on this forum. This forum, where our opinions are so out of the mainstream and controversial that there are absolute hordes of haters who would happily ruin the lives of the membership and close the forum for good if given half a chance.
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#15

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

Quote: (01-22-2015 02:55 AM)turkishcandy Wrote:  

''Gays must die because...'' is hate speech. Hate speech is not covered by free speech. The fines are in order. What is to argue about?

Because they're issuing fines on the basis of speech being "anti-gay", not "violent".

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#16

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

Quote: (01-22-2015 04:17 AM)weambulance Wrote:  

Okay, "hate speech" as a concept is total bullshit. Actions, not words, are what matters.

If I say "I hope you die in a fire while rabid porcupines are raping your ass because you have red hair" you can be offended, and that's the end of it.

There's no threat there. There's no harm done. And there's absolutely no reason for the government to get involved.

If I said "I'm going to set you on fire while my pack of angry trained porcupines runs a train on your ass," and I not only own a porcupine farm but have some gasoline cans, rope, and a road flare in the back of my truck, okay, you might consider that a credible threat and want someone to step in.

Once you say that having the wrong opinions and daring to voice them is a crime, you open up the floodgates that hold back massive government abuse.

Do I think gays should die because of whatever reason? No. Do I think these guys should say that? No. But I am not going to stop them from saying it, because that is their right. And until they takes harmful action, either by planning attacks on gays--and I'm still pretty fucking skeptical of calling planning a crime a criminal act--or actually going out and curbstomping them, I do not support any government action against them.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Sound familiar?

I find it amazing that I have to say this sort of thing over and over again on this forum. This forum, where our opinions are so out of the mainstream and controversial that there are absolute hordes of haters who would happily ruin the lives of the membership and close the forum for good if given half a chance.

I don't think you have a total grasp of what hate speech is. If I say to you ''I wanna rip your head off'', it is neither hate speech nor threat. It's covered by free speech. If I say to you ''I'm going to break in to your house and murder you in your sleep'' it's a threat, it's not covered by free speech. If I say to you ''You and other gays deserve to die'' it is hate speech. It's NOT hate speech because it involves a serious threat, since it doesn't, it's a hate speech because it's inciting violence or prejudicial action against a GROUP, which in this case is gays. Nobody will come kill you based on this hate speech, but in the future you will face more prejudice and hostility from the society as a result of my hate speech. That's why hate speech is not covered by free speech anywhere in the world. Is it always prosecuted? No, of course not. In fact, that is the only thing you can criticize France for, cherry-picking what to prosecute in order to protect gays. But in terms of the notion of free speech, it is legally justified to prosecute someone for saying ''gays must die because...''

Now I don't mean to advocate gays or anything. There is a heavy gay agenda behind these prosecutions. But it's not right to say this speech is covered by free speech.

Quote: (01-22-2015 04:33 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Quote: (01-22-2015 02:55 AM)turkishcandy Wrote:  

''Gays must die because...'' is hate speech. Hate speech is not covered by free speech. The fines are in order. What is to argue about?

Because they're issuing fines on the basis of speech being "anti-gay", not "violent".

Fair enough. Their intent is despicable. I agree.
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#17

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

Hate speech laws aren't about punishing "hatred."

Hate speech laws might be about many things, but the primary impulse is to silence opinions. Using the cover of banning "hatred" -- aka, non-liberal opinions -- certain opinions can be muted.

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why you wonder how many man another man bang? why you care who bang who mr high school drama man
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#18

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

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#19

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

Quote: (01-22-2015 04:47 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  

Hate speech laws aren't about punishing "hatred."

Hate speech laws might be about many things, but the primary impulse is to silence opinions. Using the cover of banning "hatred" -- aka, non-liberal opinions -- certain opinions can be muted.

Reminds me of a post by a guy named Robin Hanson, "Politics isn't about policy":
Quote:Quote:

Food isn’t about Nutrition
Clothes aren’t about Comfort
Bedrooms aren’t about Sleep
Marriage isn’t about Romance
Talk isn’t about Info
Laughter isn’t about Jokes
Charity isn’t about Helping
Church isn’t about God
Art isn’t about Insight
Medicine isn’t about Health
Consulting isn’t about Advice
School isn’t about Learning
Research isn’t about Progress
Politics isn’t about Policy

The above summarizes much of my contrarian world view. (What else should go on this list?) When I say “X is not about Y,” I mean that while Y is the function commonly said to drive most X behavior, in fact some other function Z drives X behavior more.
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#20

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

France and other other Western European countries are prisoners of their constitutions (post WWII) and have to abide by different standards than the US. They are all caught in a never ending loop of acceptance, tolerance and silent disagreement. The US is the only country in the world where freedom of speech triumphs everything else. This makes the US an exception and many forget that the nation states of Europe, even though may have some of the same morals and principles that Americans possess are in fact very different in the way they perceive free speech.

Whereas Americans believe that actions, not words, constitute a criminal offense, European nation states believe both words and actions can be criminalized.
This in essence explains the difference b/w the two: The First Amendment.
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#21

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

Quote: (01-21-2015 08:36 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

The convictions date back to offences committed in 2013 when several homophobic hashtags appeared on Twitter in France, including "Gays must die because...", (#Lesgaysdoiventdisparaîtrecar).

By these standards, I wonder how many fines we can throw at #KillAllMen ?

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#22

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

Just one more proof France really is a world leader........In The Race To The Bottom™.
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#23

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

One of the fundamental things I believe separates the US and Europe is their treatment of free speech and incidents like this just further confirms it. If there's something I'm proud about being a citizen in the US is that we are so willing to defend free expression that we'll defend the rights of Neo Nazis to march through a Jewish neighborhood:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_So..._of_Skokie

Remember free speech is designed to protect the right to express the most reviled and unpopular opinions and it's only when it's used for that it means anything. Saying popular, feel-good platitudes such as "Fat shaming is bad" does not require such protection.
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#24

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

That post I made in the other thread about the terrorism in France now makes me look really dumb. They definitely did something radical and different all right. In the wrong fucking direction.... One of the first places to adopt principles of freedom of speech and they just took a huge dump on it.

We cannot laugh too much longer. As soon as the US forces IP addresses to real names, we will be in the same boat.

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#25

France hands out fines for anti-gay tweets

Quote: (01-22-2015 02:54 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Just one more proof France really is a world leader........In The Race To The Bottom™.

Ha - on the other hand the people of France are much more Red Pill and less feminism indoctrinated. You can be caught making dick-jokes & rape jokes in public and don't get fired by some feminist shit-storm.

Besides - the fines will likely come to anywhere in the world in one form or another. Big Brother never sleeps and plans decades ahead.
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