[Mekorig]

Quote:

The body of AMIA special prosecutor Alberto Nisman was found in the bathroom of his apartment in the Buenos Aires City neighbourhood of Puerto Madero late on Sunday.

Nisman, who was expected to take part in a closed-door hearing in Congress today to reveal the details of explosive allegations that involved President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner and Foreign Minister Héctor Timerman, was found minutes before midnight.

The prosecutor reportedly committed suicide, according to sources, who say he was found in a pool of blood. That information has yet to be confirmed.

Nisman, who was appointed 10 years ago by the by the president’s late husband Néstor Kirchner, had revealed to some members of the opposition that he was ready to appear at the congressional hearing with more documents to back his allegations.

He had accused Fernández de Kirchner of ordering impunity for the Iranian suspects in the 1994 AMIA attack in order to boost trade with Tehran. According to Nisman, Argentina wanted to import oil and export grains Iran.

Government allies had been pushing for today’s congressional hearing to be open to the public.

Buenos Aires Herald

A little background: AMIA Bombing

Shit just hit the fan. The guy was only 12 hours from giving a hearing in the national Congress about a cause against the President and some important members of her entourage. No one kill thenself in the eve of something like that.

[Luvianka]

It says Mossad all over!

[ElBorrachoInfamoso]

So do Argentines generally believe that CFK ordered this? What's the feeling on the street?

[Sp5]

(01-19-2015 10:00 AM)Luvianka Wrote:  

It says Mossad all over!

Nah.

http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article...-complaint

Quote:

The recently-deceased prosecutor claimed that the Kirchnerite administration planned to “erase” Iran out from the AMIA case, deciding to “not incriminate” ex officials of the Islamic Republic in the bombing that left 85 people and hundreds injured almost 21 years ago with President Cristina Kirchner deciding a “geopolitical” rapprochement with Tehran, “establishing trade relations to mitigate the Argentine severe energy crisis, through an exchange of ‘oil for grains’.”

This will be interesting.

[Akula]

I knew CK was kinda out there but this is crazy. So she presumably had the lead government prosecutor in a case against her and her party killed? The fact that it happened means she really should think about stepping down from office.

[Mekorig]

Cui bono? That is the question. The more obvious answer would be CFK and her entourage (that is the feeling in the street ElBorrachoInfamoso), but to "suicide" the guy just hours from a hearing in the Congress lacks subtlety, even for the peronistas (that usually lacks subtletly in their actions). Other posibilities goes into the "tinfoil hat" territory.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

Probably they had been trying to use all sorts of different pressure to get the guy to change/amend his report, and maybe he agreed to it, and they thought all was well.
And maybe he changed his mind last minute, and they didn't have enough time to set up a car crash or anything plausible, and just went with an implausible suicide hours before a major presentation, which is only marginally better than having a uniformed policeman beat him to death on camera while CFK watches and cackles.
I could see non tinfoil hat reasons why they would have to go with a hurried and somewhat sloppy murder as opposed to something more subtle.

[getdownonit]

Economist article

I hadn't been following this story before, but this is terrible news and is going to deepen the rift in Argentine society against CFK.

Nisman evidently only made his allegations public on January 14, which wouldn't have given Argentine or Iranian secret agents much time to plan a more plausible murder than a forced suicide. On the other hand, it seems likely that Argentine intelligence would have had some knowledge of what he was investigating prior to him going public with the 300 page report.

It looks to me like Nisman was threatened with violence against himself and loved ones if he went through with his investigation, and was forced to kill himself. No note, no personal reasons for suicide. This was orchestrated from behind the scenes. We'll never know the details.

[freeuser]

This is fucking terrible. I hope we find out what really happened. It´s hard to think that they killed him just a day before the hearing. It´s just too obvious. Now people are even more interested in what really happened. Kind of like the Streisand effect.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

I was thinking about this last night before I went to sleep. And what occurred to me was how perfect would it be if his mother or brother or someone paranoid had hidden a little HD spy camera somewhere in the guy's apartment and kept quiet about it and told no one at all not even him...and then in a day or two the footage hit the internet. Imagine the uproar, scandal and shock if there was a video with audio showing 2 or 3 Argentinean or Iranian agents showing the guy threatening pictures of the family, telling him what he had to do, and then forcing him to pull the trigger. Then afterwards casually and methodically going through the apartment removing evidence and setting up the scene. An extra bonus if they were caught on tape making a call back to one of their government handlers saying the problem had been neutralized.

[ThrustMaster]

[YossariansRight]

(01-20-2015 09:41 AM)ThrustMaster Wrote:  

Fantastic movie!!!

[getdownonit]

Nothing has yet become clear, but there are some updates in the case. Most news on the case is in Spanish of course, so that's what I've been reading. I'll try to summarize the events as concisely as possible.

English language article

El Pais, more information

Clarin article, locksmith testifies, states that service door was not locked

La Nacion, gunpowder analysis

First, no traces of gunpowder were found on Nisman's hands, as one would expect from a suicide. This could be because the firearm used was a Bersa .22 caliber which does not always leave such traces. Experts are testing the gun.

In addition, a third entrance to Nisman's apartment has been 'discovered'. First, there is the main entrance, which can only be opened by alphanumeric keypad code and was not opened on Sunday night. Next we have the service entrance, which the locksmith used to enter when Nisman's mother called him up on Sunday at approximately 22:00. Finally, there is a third passageway which goes between Nisman's apartment and another, property of a foreign citizen, where the air conditioning units are located.

There are two potential leads here:

First, unidentified foot and fingerprints have been found in the passageway outside the third entrance. These may belong to a serviceman; they are being analyzed.

Second, the locksmith has testified before the court, and spoke to the media after his testimony. He stated that the service door was not locked, but that the key was simply in the door, unlocked. He spent more time putting away his tools and was there for less than ten minutes, never entering the apartment. This type of lock is not common in America, where a door is either locked or unlocked, so I'll explain. With this type of lock, you can't open the door from the outside without a key (or lockpicking tools) even if the door has not been 'locked' from the inside or outside. You'll just have to turn the key more times if it's been locked. If the key is in the door from the inside, a key inserted from the outside won't function, and you'll need lockpicking tools to move the key out of the way. Thus the door could have been closed by anyone leaving the apartment.

La Nacion, photos of passageway

These are all recent developments that have not yet come to any resolution, but I don't see how this could be anything less than an assassination.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

The annual male suicide rate in Argentina per 100,000 is 12.6 as of 2008, or .0126%.
There is a lifespan for men in Argentina of 72.5 years.
Let's say 50 of those years are potential suicide years.
So, a lifetime suicide risk for an Argentinian male would be 50 x .0126% = 0.63%
To put it another way, the chance of an Argentinian male committing suicide on a particular day would be that original figure of 12.6 per 100,000 per year divided by 365, which would be .0000345%.
So, either we believe that an event that has a .0000345% chance of occurring happened, or we believe that this man, who happened to be in the process of exposing some very powerful people, was murdered.
Even if you were to say that his profession as a lawyer/prosecutor gave him a risk factor 100x greater than average, he would still only have a .00345% chance of committing suicide on a random day.

[Seamus]

I'm in Buenos Aires right now, and this is what every cab driver wants to talk about when I get in.

When cabbies give a shit about something, that's a pretty good sign it's penetrated through to the wider masses. I don't expect this to die down any time soon.

[berserk]

(01-19-2015 10:00 AM)Luvianka Wrote:  

It says Mossad all over!

This has jewry written all over it:

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewi...s/1.618225

Quote:

“The Jewish institutions that always support us, they turned against us,” Fernandez told the General Assembly. “We asked Iran to cooperate with the Argentinian Justice Ministry several times. Then we signed a Memorandum of Understanding which is a tool to cooperate. We want the Iranians to declare the facts to the judge. When we signed the agreement it seemed that the internal and external demons were unleashed. Jewish institutions who had accompanied us turned against us. When we decided to cooperate they accused us of complicity with the State of Iran.”

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewi...m-1.502701

Quote:

Argentine President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner publicly attacked the head of Buenos Aires' Jewish community, hinting he was in contact with a "foreign espionage agency that knows of a new terror attack planned against Argentina."

Yep, just the 'allies in the middle east' doing business as usual.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

^^^

Are you fucking serious? I am by no means an Israel supporter, but what you seem to be alleging (some sort of conspiracy by "Jewry") is completely irrational.
Israel objected to that approach (the joint Iran - Argentine investigation) because its pretty goddamn obvious Iranian linked groups carried out both the 92 embassy bombing and the 94 AMIA bombing, either with the blessing or under the direct orders of Tehran. Any investigation that had Iranian participation would conclude that Iran was innocent of involvement.

[berserk]

(01-21-2015 05:17 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

^^^

Are you fucking serious? I am by no means an Israel supporter, but what you seem to be alleging (some sort of conspiracy by "Jewry") is completely irrational.
Israel objected to that approach (the joint Iran - Argentine investigation) because its pretty goddamn obvious Iranian linked groups carried out both the 92 embassy bombing and the 94 AMIA bombing, either with the blessing or under the direct orders of Tehran. Any investigation that had Iranian participation would conclude that Iran was innocent of involvement.

Yes, clearly there is more than meets the eye here and there are loads and loads of stories about CFK and jewish groups. Smoke meet fire.

It seems Kirchner might have fallen into bad standing after her decision to co-operate with Iran on solving the crime.

Here is the timeline from ADL itself:

1994 - terrorist attack

2012 - ADL is 'appalled' at talks of a joint investigation with Iran

2013 - Kirchner agrees with Iran to investigate

2013 - Nisman, who is jewish himself, claims that Iran and Hezbollah is behind the attack - which certainly fits well into Israel's long standing desire for a war with Iran and Hezbollah.

2014 - Nisman puts the screws on trying to smear the President.

2015 - Nisman ends up dead

The case stinks of geopolitics.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(01-21-2015 05:33 PM)berserk Wrote:  

(01-21-2015 05:17 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

^^^

Are you fucking serious? I am by no means an Israel supporter, but what you seem to be alleging (some sort of conspiracy by "Jewry") is completely irrational.
Israel objected to that approach (the joint Iran - Argentine investigation) because its pretty goddamn obvious Iranian linked groups carried out both the 92 embassy bombing and the 94 AMIA bombing, either with the blessing or under the direct orders of Tehran. Any investigation that had Iranian participation would conclude that Iran was innocent of involvement.

Yes, clearly there is more than meets the eye here and there are loads and loads of stories about CFK and jewish groups. Smoke meet fire.

It seems Kirchner might have fallen into bad standing after her decision to co-operate with Iran on solving the crime.

Here is the timeline from ADL itself:

1994 - terrorist attack

2012 - ADL is 'appalled' at talks of a joint investigation with Iran

2013 - Kirchner agrees with Iran to investigate

2013 - Nisman, who is jewish himself, claims that Iran and Hezbollah is behind the attack - which certainly fits well into Israel's long standing desire for a war with Iran and Hezbollah.

2014 - Nisman puts the screws on trying to smear the President.

2015 - Nisman ends up dead

The case stinks of geopolitics.

So, your theory is that Israel carried out the AMIA bombing in 1994, and presumably the embassy bombing in 1992 as well? All with the express purpose of provoking a war with Iran and Hezbollah?
Seems like an awful lot of trouble. Since in your world the Israeli government and the Mossad were the ones behind this, the extensive security measures in place to prevent attacks in Israel would not be an issue affecting operational viability...so why didn't they just park a car bomb outside a nursery in Tel Aviv, make it look like Hizbollah and call it a day? That would be plenty of reason to go to war with Iran. Why go through all the trouble of carrying out a bombing in Buenos Aires and then waiting twenty years to make it look like Iran did it?

[berserk]

(01-21-2015 05:44 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

(01-21-2015 05:33 PM)berserk Wrote:  

(01-21-2015 05:17 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

^^^

Are you fucking serious? I am by no means an Israel supporter, but what you seem to be alleging (some sort of conspiracy by "Jewry") is completely irrational.
Israel objected to that approach (the joint Iran - Argentine investigation) because its pretty goddamn obvious Iranian linked groups carried out both the 92 embassy bombing and the 94 AMIA bombing, either with the blessing or under the direct orders of Tehran. Any investigation that had Iranian participation would conclude that Iran was innocent of involvement.

Yes, clearly there is more than meets the eye here and there are loads and loads of stories about CFK and jewish groups. Smoke meet fire.

It seems Kirchner might have fallen into bad standing after her decision to co-operate with Iran on solving the crime.

Here is the timeline from ADL itself:

1994 - terrorist attack

2012 - ADL is 'appalled' at talks of a joint investigation with Iran

2013 - Kirchner agrees with Iran to investigate

2013 - Nisman, who is jewish himself, claims that Iran and Hezbollah is behind the attack - which certainly fits well into Israel's long standing desire for a war with Iran and Hezbollah.

2014 - Nisman puts the screws on trying to smear the President.

2015 - Nisman ends up dead

The case stinks of geopolitics.

So, your theory is that Israel carried out the AMIA bombing in 1994, and presumably the embassy bombing in 1992 as well?

I'm not going to bother replying when you begin your reply with an obvious strawman that you can't find an ioata of justification for in my post.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

Hey dude, you did get the part about it being geopolitics correct...you just pointed the finger at "Jewry" instead of real politik in support of Argentine national interests.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/22/world/...-iran.html

Quote:

Intercepted conversations between representatives of the Iranian and Argentine governments point to a long pattern of secret negotiations to reach a deal in which Argentina would receive oil in exchange for shielding Iranian officials from charges that they orchestrated the bombing of a Jewish community center in 1994.

The transcripts were made public by an Argentine judge on Tuesday night, as part of a 289-page criminal complaint written by Alberto Nisman, the special prosecutor investigating the attack. Mr. Nisman was found dead in his luxury apartment on Sunday, the night before he was to present his findings to Congress.

But the intercepted telephone conversations he described before his death outline an elaborate effort to reward Argentina for shipping food to Iran — and for seeking to derail the investigation into a terrorist attack in the Argentine capital that killed 85 people.

[getdownonit]

@berserk: I'm not 100% clear on what you're hypothesizing happened behind the scenes, but it's totally implausible that Jews would be behind this when Jews and Israel haven't benefitted from the attack from two decades ago.

Equally implausible is CFK's personal spin on the incident:

Quote:

President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner took to social media once again to express her thoughts on the death of AMIA special prosecutor Alberto Nisman this morning, making reference to “the suicide which -I am sure- was not a suicide.”
...
In another long letter — the second she has written since Nisman’s death —, the president said that the “real operation against the government was the prosecutor’s death” and she added: “They used him while he was alive and then they needed him dead. It is that sad and terrible.”

[Mekorig]

Last analisis of the head wound says that the gun was at least at 10-15 cm from the head.....

[getdownonit]

(01-24-2015 09:59 AM)Mekorig Wrote:  

Last analisis of the head wound says that the gun was at least at 10-15 cm from the head.....

I'm seeing reports that the analysis shows the gun was pressed against his head. Do you have other sources?

La Nacion

[LaCobra]

So the prosecutor stops abruptly his vacations, leaves his daughter in the airport and rushes to hand a 350 pages novel to another judge (not the AMIA Judge) in the middle of the judicial recess. Then this IT he pushed to get hired hands him the gun he got killed with.

My guess is that he promised something big to someone big and got fed bullshit.
Judge Zafaroni on the 350 pages report:

Lanacion