[Ryan James]

This is why you should train a live Martial Art like Boxing, Muay Thai, Judo or Jiu Jitsu were every training session you are being really tested by someone trying to beat you in sparring. Unlike dead martial arts like Karate, Kung fu, Aikido, Krav Maga etc.. were you just become a deluded fool like the guys in this video, you're not facing reality head on.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(01-17-2015 03:12 AM)Ryan James Wrote:  

This is why you should train a live Martial Art like Boxing, Muay Thai, Judo or Jiu Jitsu were every training session you are being really tested by someone trying to beat you in sparring. Unlike dead martial arts like Karate, Kung fu, Aikido, Krav Maga etc.. were you just become a deluded fool like the guys in this video, you're not facing reality head on.

To be fair - that guy is capable as he trained with Bruce Lee, but somewhere along the lines delusions started to set in.

The test is simple - if you cannot move inanimate objects with your "chi" then you won't be able to move humans without hypnosis-style abilities which are more self-created than based on anything real.

However there is maybe more to it than it seems:

The problem is that it is likely very rare and any serious researcher would be laughed at and have his career ruined, so that's why we won't know anything definitive soon on the topic.

Also - it's likely much easier and faster to learn to hit harder than to try hit with chi even if it is possible to learn it.

[Saweeep]

Martial arts trolling.

Bullshido is -----------> way

[Rangarr]

No sparring/no contact martial arts = trolling McDojos

for proper self defense, you only need to learn 1 style where you're standing on your feet and 1 style where you're on the ground

so just take any random combination of boxing/muay thai and jiu jitsu/BJJ/samba/wrestling and you're set for a life situations

[Atticus]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That first video was cringe-worthy.

Any "live" art is worth doing, and ultimately it comes down to the martial artist rather than the art.

Not all Karate is useless. Try a Kyokushin sparring session and you'll know you've been in a fight.

My 2 cents worth is that you can't go past Judo. Anyone who's been thrown full force knows that sensation- like the ground has opened up and you're being sucked down to the center of the earth. Or that light bulb moment when all your movements are perfectly coordinated and you throw a much larger opponent with minimal effort. The spill over effect into all areas of life is amazing. I find myself standing at a bar and being aware of how the guy next to me is standing, subconsciously sizing him up, thinking about the best way to slam him into the ground. You can't help but carry yourself more confidently.

Gentlemen, do Judo!!

[Ryan James]

Look at the guys in this vid and compare them to the original vid above. These guys are facing reality on a daily basis unlike the deluded out of shape guys were no one is challenging them. Game and live martial arts are similar there's nowhere to hide.

[Saweeep]

I can't resist:

I have been involved in the martial arts industry my entire life...and you know what?

They're fundamentally all the same.

There are only so many ways to punch, kick, lock a joint etc.

The only difference is how they are taught and by whom.

[Ryan James]

(01-17-2015 09:06 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

I can't resist:

I have been involved in the martial arts industry my entire life...and you know what?

They're fundamentally all the same.

There are only so many ways to punch, kick, lock a joint etc.

The only difference is how they are taught and by whom.

Let me guess you do Kung Fu! LOL

[Foolsgo1d]

My experience takes into account what fights are like in reality.

So you want to Judo? Ok, go fight on a hard surface and not the mats you are comfortable with. lets say concrete. You and your opponent are going to use throws, knees, elbows, fists and heads.

MMA fighting? Same story. No holds barred.

Now do you have a fighting spirit, a killer instinct or just passive? If you have the latter you're going to lose and lose badly.

Its all well and hunky dory when you're sparring with fellow fighters or trainees but its an exercise in bullshit. If your opponent is capable of swinging a hook do you think you can do a drop on him so easily?

What about his friends? Its best to be a brawler than a fighter.

[Saweeep]

(01-17-2015 09:26 AM)Ryan James Wrote:  

(01-17-2015 09:06 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

I can't resist:

I have been involved in the martial arts industry my entire life...and you know what?

They're fundamentally all the same.

There are only so many ways to punch, kick, lock a joint etc.

The only difference is how they are taught and by whom.

Let me guess you do Kung Fu! LOL

I am a full contact kickboxing/K-1 coach and have lived in Thailand training MT. I have also been a writer for MMA magazines.

Sorry to disappoint.

[Dalaran1991]

Are you sure you are not trolling just to get some macho aggression-filled validation?

Try doing your Judo/Jujitsu off the mats where the ground are full of tables and obstacles, with an opponent who refuses to take the fancy fall and probably have 40lbs on you. Try using any of the tricks you know against someone who's trying to bite your arms, grab your jaws and poke out your eyes.

The whole discussion on martial arts effectiveness is hoax. All the stuffs you see in UFC, cage-fighting and pro-wrestling are for entertainment. Self defense is about threat nullification and not getting in trouble in the first place. Most people even when pissed off won't use full force/full on aggression on you. In such situation it's best to defuse and redirect.

If somebody really wants to hurt you, it matters little what their skills level is. You both are gonna get hurt and die, and probably get into trouble with the law. If somebody wants you dead, you probably won't even see the blow coming. And you must really be one hell of a dumbass to be in either of those situations.

Ask a guard at a psych ward what a crazy frail woman who is trying to escape could do to you and herself, and you will know what I mean.

Why the hell do you think security and bodyguard is about being armed with a firearm? Bruce Lee himself carry a gun on his person all the time.

[Low Status Beta]

How does QiGong/Chi Kung weigh up in respect to other martial arts?

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Quote:

“Someone with only a year of training in boxing and wrestling could easily defeat a martial artist of twenty years experience.”
–Bruce Lee

http://www.returnofkings.com/48159/why-k...artial-art

Boxing in combination with some wrestling moves when your opponent grabs you are probably the most efficient fighting styles.

Some of the best guys I saw in real life - various masters in several Eastern martial arts - they relied heavily on hard hits very very similar to boxing moves - effectively they were boxers with slightly different foot-work. Back then I did not see it, but now I think that Bruce Lee was right.

[Rangarr]

as far as I can tell, you simply need to learn a couple of things through martial arts for it to be relevant to real life self-defense

1) how to throw a punch. not just the movement, but actually moving some physical object through space by force. punching bag is cool, a human face is better. makes you realize that the skull is fucking hard and painful, trains you to not fear hurting someone and how to not hurt yourself

2) how to take hits. no matter how perfect your fighting, if you've never actually taken a full hit it'll leave you bewildered, disordered and confused when you actually get hit for real. better start desentesizing yourself against that early on. also good just for the sheer realization that a punch doesn't actually hurt that much

3) how to deal with the adrenaline. your technique can be super perfect in theory, but once the adrenaline surges your mind numbs and your discipline goes out the window and you start randomly flailing around. if you've experienced the adrenaline surge in the past many times, you start to get accustomed to it. as far as I can tell, the ONLY way to get this realistic surge is to actually fight (sparring). at some point, your thought process will change from a chaotic emotional "that fucker just hit me! what the fuck?! how dare he?! I'm gonna fuck him up fuck!" to a more methodical "ok you got hit. look at him. what's his stance, what's he doing? jab or punch? are any friends of his around?"

4) how to fight on the floor. will do you 0 good if there are more than 1 person around, but gold against 1 opponent. or, at least it teaches you how to get off the ground again. most of the street fights end on the ground after about 20 seconds anyway

if you've learned these 4 components, you're basically ready for battle. if a martial arts of your choice doesn't teach you those, drop it and try another one. especially how to deal with getting punched and the adrenaline surge, these 2 things will turn you into a full on retard if you've never gotten accustomed to them

(01-17-2015 09:50 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

If somebody really wants to hurt you, it matters little what their skills level is. Ask a guard at a psych ward what a crazy frail woman who is trying to escape could do to you and herself, and you will know what I mean.

Your post is kinda pointless. So what's your alternative suggestion what one should do, simply not train any martial arts because it's all pointless in the end when someone wants to kill you or has a gun? Can't prepare for everything in life, but you can still give your best effort to prepare for most instances

[Dalaran1991]

I do martial arts extensively, Aikido and Jujutsu. All of my masters have told me stories about how they got robbed and beaten in a street fight. My 4th dan Jujitsu master got robbed the other day and he did fight back. The robber knew how to throw a punch and in the end he pulled out a pepper spray. Game over. My master said he was lucky the guy didn't pull a knife.

In only one stories I've heard, the master is a 4th dan in Karate and successfully disarmed his attacker, but he himself admitted the guy was not intent on hurting him, just thought it was easy money.

I train marital arts to stay fit and keep my mind healthy, and I think lots of people who train do the same. I talked to a pro boxer and he said he would gladly give his wallet and walk away if robbed with a weapon or by multiple attackers. It only takes one mistake to get maimed and no $ is worth it.

Quote:

it's all pointless in the end when someone wants to kill you or has a gun?

Are you seriously gonna fight someone who has a gun on you? Have you ever done so or at least, know people who have done so?

Why would somebody wants to kill you in the first place?

Definitely learn a martial art/self defense but don't go gang ho on it unless it's fight or die. And most of the time it's not.

You want an alternative? Learn how to recognize danger from afar (a good master will teach you this first and foremost) and GTFO, and don't go into dangerous places unless you absolutely have to and are well prepared to do so. Or, learn to stay calm, hold frame and defuse a potentially dangerous situation instead of flying in in fist-first.

[viajero]

If you're so worried about self defense I suggest you buy a gun.

Also, maybe worry about making more money and living in a nice area with little violence.

Most people talking about 'self-defense' seem to be more interested in 'I want to beat the fuck out of some drunk idiot at the bar who talked shit to me.'

Also, CrashBangWallop makes great points, as always.

[Vaun]

Trying to decide what to choose as a martial art to practice. Have several friends who are fighters, instructors, boxers, but I have never really done it myself. I want to, but I want to maximize my time and effort in the learning process. Not in a cheating Tim Ferriss kind of way, but a true study, but in a very time efficient way.

Went to a few Systema classes and was very disappointed, just hundreds of repetitions of these movement drills that supposedly mimic body movements to evade/flow into and out of defensive moves. The only real test I had was falling on the floor hundreds of times a class. Ok so you learn how to fall. I wrestled as a kid so most of these moves already made sense to me, not like I was a novice or havent done that before. I found it to be pretty nerdy, and not practical in any way for life in the streets.

Is Krav Maga dead? Why? What can I expect there?

In boxing gyms, they make you do a lot of BS that I dont need. Learn how to jump rope.. Check. I can jump rope well. Conditioning. Check. Aside from a few extra pounds, I am good there. I am going to learn how to fight, not exercise in a boxing gym. I feel like most boxing classes/sessions are geared toward the newbie who will get a thrill out of jump roping and v ups on the ring. I want to learn how to punch.

BJJ - my only hesitation as a 40 yo man is getting arm barred by a young buck, in a random sparring session. Then limping back to the office in a cast and no use of my arm for several weeks.

Any recommendations?

[Rangarr]

Whenever the topic of self-defense arises on ANY kind of forum, it's always the same clusterfuck and the same points appear over and over again:
"Learn the antique Aikido art to flow through your enemies like my sensei said!"
"Why you gonna learn punching huh? BUY A GUN!"
"Pfeh, self-defense, my hanzo steel katana will simply cut through my foes!"
"Bro all self-defense is pointless, just learn to run away from any comfrontation, never visit anything even remotely dangerous, live in a safe sheltered neighborhood and in a castle and never go out!"
"Pleabians, just become a millionaire and then you won't ever have to worry about self-defense, just hire an army of bodyguards!"
"Self-defense is good, but self-reliance is better! Start by doing 8 sets of 12 reps of eating cockroaches and bugs in the forest, supplement with reading the Turner Diaries in the evening"
"Man you can get mortally injured by just falling on concrete and breaking your skull open, so thus I conclude that all self-defense is pointless!"
Every single time these arguments get brought out, and every single time they're pointlessly irrelevant to the topic at hand

Or, you know, you could just learn to fight, feel like a man who could defend himself if push comes to shove and move on with your life while assessing the usefulness and danger of each hostile encounter you'll ever be part in

[viajero]

(01-17-2015 11:34 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

In boxing gyms, they make you do a lot of BS that I dont need. Learn how to jump rope.. Check. I can jump rope well. Conditioning. Check. Aside from a few extra pounds, I am good there. I am going to learn how to fight, not exercise in a boxing gym. I feel like most boxing classes/sessions are geared toward the newbie who will get a thrill out of jump roping and v ups on the ring. I want to learn how to punch.

No.

Most boxing gyms are full of guys who love to fight. I mean LOVE it. I mean the guy who weights 150 lbs and wants to spar heavyweights, or the guy who runs to the gym because he doesn't have a car, or the old guy who will stop you to show you some special trick he likes after 30 years in boxing.

You either are going to a boxercise gym, and not a boxing gym, or you're being too impatient.

As far a conditioning, it's extremely important. I guarantee you that you cannot spar more than 2 minutes without becoming exhausted right now. How are you expecting to learn to fight if you can't actually fight?

Sure, street fights are short, and you don't need to be prepared for 12x3 minute rounds. But to actually LEARN to fight you need to be fit enough to get in there and spar. The more you can do, the faster you will improve.

[Vaun]

(01-17-2015 11:44 AM)viajero Wrote:  

(01-17-2015 11:34 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

In boxing gyms, they make you do a lot of BS that I dont need. Learn how to jump rope.. Check. I can jump rope well. Conditioning. Check. Aside from a few extra pounds, I am good there. I am going to learn how to fight, not exercise in a boxing gym. I feel like most boxing classes/sessions are geared toward the newbie who will get a thrill out of jump roping and v ups on the ring. I want to learn how to punch.

You either are going to a boxercise gym, and not a boxing gym, or you're being too impatient.

Thanks for the info. I think thats the case, they are very popular now. I think I need to seek out better gyms, or classes/training thats for the more serious. The impatience is probably a factor too.

[viajero]

(01-17-2015 11:39 AM)Rangarr Wrote:  

Or, you know, you could just learn to fight, feel like a man who could defend himself if push comes to shove and move on with your life while assessing the usefulness and danger of each hostile encounter you'll ever be part in

I love the boxing gym. I'm an addict.

I miss wrestling. I wish I'd done more of it.

I think learning to fight is great! Every man should have experience in a combat sport.

I just also know grown men who haven't been in a fight since grade school (most of them, in fact). No one walks around calling them pussies because they don't regularly whip some ass in a bar.

Maybe one day I'll need a good left hook to put on someone's jaw. For now, I just don't hang out in places that are that violent. Or, when I travel in 3rd world countries, I leave my credit card in a safe at the hotel and go out with enough cash for the night. If I get robbed, who cares?

[viajero]

(01-17-2015 11:46 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

(01-17-2015 11:44 AM)viajero Wrote:  

(01-17-2015 11:34 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

In boxing gyms, they make you do a lot of BS that I dont need. Learn how to jump rope.. Check. I can jump rope well. Conditioning. Check. Aside from a few extra pounds, I am good there. I am going to learn how to fight, not exercise in a boxing gym. I feel like most boxing classes/sessions are geared toward the newbie who will get a thrill out of jump roping and v ups on the ring. I want to learn how to punch.

You either are going to a boxercise gym, and not a boxing gym, or you're being too impatient.

Thanks for the info. I think thats the case, they are very popular now. I think I need to seek out better gyms, or classes/training thats for the more serious. The impatience is probably a factor too.

Find out if your gym has people who currently compete. If the answer is yes, find out at what level. That will tell you 99% of what you need to know.

[Ryan James]

removed

[Ryan James]

(01-17-2015 11:34 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

Trying to decide what to choose as a martial art to practice. Have several friends who are fighters, instructors, boxers, but I have never really done it myself. I want to, but I want to maximize my time and effort in the learning process. Not in a cheating Tim Ferriss kind of way, but a true study, but in a very time efficient way.

Went to a few Systema classes and was very disappointed, just hundreds of repetitions of these movement drills that supposedly mimic body movements to evade/flow into and out of defensive moves. The only real test I had was falling on the floor hundreds of times a class. Ok so you learn how to fall. I wrestled as a kid so most of these moves already made sense to me, not like I was a novice or havent done that before. I found it to be pretty nerdy, and not practical in any way for life in the streets.

Is Krav Maga dead? Why? What can I expect there?

In boxing gyms, they make you do a lot of BS that I dont need. Learn how to jump rope.. Check. I can jump rope well. Conditioning. Check. Aside from a few extra pounds, I am good there. I am going to learn how to fight, not exercise in a boxing gym. I feel like most boxing classes/sessions are geared toward the newbie who will get a thrill out of jump roping and v ups on the ring. I want to learn how to punch.

BJJ - my only hesitation as a 40 yo man is getting arm barred by a young buck, in a random sparring session. Then limping back to the office in a cast and no use of my arm for several weeks.

Any recommendations?

That's why you tap.

[Vaun]

(01-17-2015 12:00 PM)Ryan James Wrote:  

(01-17-2015 11:34 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

BJJ - my only hesitation as a 40 yo man is getting arm barred by a young buck, in a random sparring session. Then limping back to the office in a cast and no use of my arm for several weeks.

That's why you tap.

in theory, but I know a lot of guys that would show you otherwise