[RawGod]

As a Christmas gift I gave my ex-wife (who is an avid sailor like myself) the DVD of "All Is Lost", a well-crafted piece of cinema about a man alone on a boat. It's a great movie for those who love sailing, but I had forgotten one thing when I gave it to her: she's a woman, and this is a movie with no relationships at all in it. I should have known she wouldn't enjoy it.

It's a truism in the manosphere that men are interested in things and ideas, but women are only interested in the social world.

That is, men are engaged with ideas and abstractions, and have passions for things which only peripherally involve the social hierarchy. Men create art, music, science, technology, are fascinated by philosophy and systematisation, appreciate beauty for its own sake, and solve problems. Whereas women's experience of the world is mediated through other people. They need to be part of a group, and are at all times concerned with what others think of them. They fall into the frame of the strongest leader, or the media narrative, and are constantly anxious and seeking reassurance that they are a valued part of a tribe.

I have always agreed with this, but the more I think about it, the more it seems an absolute truth. Men are also concerned with status in the pecking order, group membership, etc, but the strongest and most intelligent, the ones that drive society, create their own new frame and new paradigms. Some of them are willing to become outcasts or even celibate rejects, in order to follow their inner light.

I don't see this at all with women. Where are the women of past and present obsessed with their pursuit of art and science? Where are the women who contemplate the wonders of nature or our cultural heritage? When I look at the art of Vermeer, I'm moved in a strange way by the colors and textures. Women on the other hand seem only to want to know who exactly the girl with the pearl earring was and whether Vermeer married her.

Which women do you know that are "going their own way", blazing a trail, engaging with the universe and the world of ideas without concern for social status? Tell us about the exceptions. They have to be out there.

[pheonix500000]

NO

[GeroMeroHero]

Offhandedly, but not primarily.

[Cincinnatus]

   

[Pontifex Maximus]

Just putting this up for debate. I am not very familiar with objectivism and Atlas Shrugged. I've read it twice for entrepreneurial purposes but still need to fully understand it.

[turkishcandy]

(01-12-2015 11:22 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

As a Christmas gift I gave my ex-wife

You lost me there.

[Paracelsus]

Therese of Lisceaux? Catherine of Siena? The exceptions seem to be mystics in the field of religion.

[Old Fritz]

Nope. Don't know any women like this personally.

[Plato]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test

Quote:

The Bechdel test asks if a work of fiction features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man. The requirement that the two women must be named is sometimes added.

Originally conceived for evaluating films, the Bechdel test is now used as an indicator of gender bias in all forms of fiction. Less than half of all contemporary films fail any given test.

[Only One Man]

This is so true. I am an avid skier and I can't think of any girls I know who love skiing/snowboarding simply for the joy of the activity.

Me and my friends get up there early, try to figure out where the best snow is, explore the mountain looking for the coolest spots, hiking to get to them in some cases, and just skiing our asses off until we are dead tired or the lifts close, ect.

Every girl I know of who is a skier or snowboarder makes sure everyone on social media knows she is on the mountain that day and spends more time in the lodge than on the mountain, content to go down the same lame run a few times and call it a day.

This is why ski town locals are 90+% guys.

[Only One Man]

Also, this isn't womens' fault, it's just a part of their nature. Of course feminists would say that women are just as interested in these things as men and when confronted with statistics to the contrary would just say it's because of patriarchy and social conditioning.

[RawGod]

(01-13-2015 12:28 AM)Only One Man Wrote:  

This is why ski town locals are 90+% guys.

Exactly. You won't find women relocating to some cool location with good skiing, hunting and learning to brew the best beer they can. We laugh as of course women are not like this...only the social world is real to them.

I know all this, just frustrated...need to blow off some steam.

[GreenHills]

(01-12-2015 11:22 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

As a Christmas gift I gave my ex-wife (who is an avid sailor like myself) the DVD of "All Is Lost", a well-crafted piece of cinema about a man alone on a boat. It's a great movie for those who love sailing, but I had forgotten one thing when I gave it to her: she's a woman, and this is a movie with no relationships at all in it. I should have known she wouldn't enjoy it.

It's a truism in the manosphere that men are interested in things and ideas, but women are only interested in the social world.

That is, men are engaged with ideas and abstractions, and have passions for things which only peripherally involve the social hierarchy. Men create art, music, science, technology, are fascinated by philosophy and systematisation, appreciate beauty for its own sake, and solve problems. Whereas women's experience of the world is mediated through other people. They need to be part of a group, and are at all times concerned with what others think of them. They fall into the frame of the strongest leader, or the media narrative, and are constantly anxious and seeking reassurance that they are a valued part of a tribe.

I have always agreed with this, but the more I think about it, the more it seems an absolute truth. Men are also concerned with status in the pecking order, group membership, etc, but the strongest and most intelligent, the ones that drive society, create their own new frame and new paradigms. Some of them are willing to become outcasts or even celibate rejects, in order to follow their inner light.

I don't see this at all with women. Where are the women of past and present obsessed with their pursuit of art and science? Where are the women who contemplate the wonders of nature or our cultural heritage? When I look at the art of Vermeer, I'm moved in a strange way by the colors and textures. Women on the other hand seem only to want to know who exactly the girl with the pearl earring was and whether Vermeer married her.

Which women do you know that are "going their own way", blazing a trail, engaging with the universe and the world of ideas without concern for social status? Tell us about the exceptions. They have to be out there.

It's not that black and white. If there's one thing that's true about life, it's that whatever kind of person you can imagine within some limits, that person exists.

Since you're talking about art. I took some drawing lessons some time ago and the owner of the drawing studio was a woman, completely obsessed with art. Not the nicest woman, neither one that I liked, but here we go - she was obsessed and putting an extreme amount of time into it and it's a thankless craft where people struggle financially.

I wondered whether drawing and painting are a feminine thing, a masculine thing, or something neutral. I'm not very familiar with art history, but a lot of the masters are men AFAIK. Men really seem to be able to put an inordinate amount of time and dedication to a craft, as I have too, for my real profession. On the other hand, my teacher was a woman and a renowned painter. So, I didn't come up with a gender conclusion for art.

And my fantasy of hot art students was shattered. The ones that are dedicated are mostly not hot!

[Plato]

On my philosophy course - there were just two chicks.

One had some massive birthmark on her face.

The other was lesbian.

And not hot.

I dropped out.

[deerhunter]

She is your ex wife. Be done with it. No contact unless you have to because of kids. No surprise that she actually does not want to sail, travel, hunt, explore.

[trian1]

(01-13-2015 12:28 AM)Only One Man Wrote:  

This is so true. I am an avid skier and I can't think of any girls I know who love skiing/snowboarding simply for the joy of the activity.

This is why ski town locals are 90+% guys.

I do. I used to snowboard with a lesbian coworker. It was great -- we liked the same music, had the same haircut, handled the same trails and liked the same type of girls.

Plus, she filled her hydration pack with home-made amaretto liquor.

[spokepoker]

Who cares?

[Tactician]

Quote:

Whereas women's experience of the world is mediated through other people. They need to be part of a group, and are at all times concerned with what others think of them. They fall into the frame of the strongest leader, or the media narrative, and are constantly anxious and seeking reassurance that they are a valued part of a tribe.

This is why a man who doesn't care what others think or acts aloof is such an attractant to women; he's doing something they cannot do!

Related: That's also the reason women buy luxury products. Expensive bags etc. are not purchased to attract men, or even for the direct enjoyment of the women doing the purchasing. Rather, luxury products are bought as a way for women to signal to other women that she is a sexual threat.

-

Now, to address the question you posed, at the highest levels of play, it is EXTREMELY rare to find women acting on their own initiative. Here is an example taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World's...aires_2014:

Quote:

A total of 1,645 people made the 2014 billionaire list, represented combined wealth of $6.4 trillion. Of those, a record 268 were newcomers, surpassing 2008's 226 newcomers. The list included 42 female newcomers. One hundred people listed in 2013 failed to make the list. The number of women on the list rose to a record 172 in 2014, up from 138 the previous year. However, only 12 of them were completely self-made without the help of parents or spouses. Overall, 66% of the list was self-made, 13% achieved their wealth through inheritance alone, and 21% through a mixture of the two. The combined wealth of the top 20 rose from $714.5 billion to $838.6 billion.

Let's break this down!

Out of 268 newcomers, only 42 were women. 42/268 = 15.6% of newcomers were women. Further, only 12 were self-made. Contrast this to (268 newcomers - 42 female newcomers) = 226 male newcomers *average of 66% of the list being self-made = about 150 self made men (it's actually higher because the 66% is brought down by non-self-made women from previous years).

Even with the higher post-secondary education enrollment rates and all the scholarships and entrepreneurial programs specifically designed for women, they still don't have the right combination of guts, drive, and smarts to play at the highest levels.

However, I think the main reason women won't make it to the top is that their biology itself doesn't want to. I recommend reading this highly insightful post by The Reactionary Tree. It's full of gems that can be applied to more than one area: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-43...#pid921157

Quote:

Women use coercion and persuasion over men as a means to get things done. This is the anatomy of female power. Women have always avoided positions of authority because with being in a position of authority comes responsibility and accountability. Women have a strong aversion to responsibility and accountability. You see this in even the most mundane social interactions like, "where should we go for dinner?"

-
p.s. I think women also inherit their way into billionaire status in less numbers than men do. If we assume a 50/50 male/female population spread, this suggests that billionaires are less inclined (read: know better than) to trust a women with that much money. However, the math is a bit hand-wavey because the data takes some digging to find and this post is getting long.

Edit: i can't spell

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Women don't do their own thing or forge new paths, because it is not in their nature.

It's pure biology - if women were like men in that regard - taking risks, having a strong urge to explore and live on the edge - well we as humans may not have survived.

Women are designed to be herd animals following men or other herds of women. That is their nature and it is good so.

Don't expect them to behave like us - have good friends to do all the things and enjoy the time with a woman doing things that they like - fucking her brains out, some minimal level of socializing (hate that crap), quality family time. Personally I don't want to spend too much time with a LTR - better to have an intense 2 hours than boring 10 hours daily.

[Redwood]

As far as I know, no. Even the lower dregs of society will still have the herd mentality.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I don't need a woman to be independent and not following the social context, just to have the ability to know which social context is good and which is bad, and to possess long-term thinking so to not confuse the two. That's enough.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

One of the things I think of as a specifically male quality is the ability to take a piece of equipment or software and find a use for it that the maker hadn't intended, but enhances it.

I've been transferring some rare, old out-of-print vinyl albums to the MP3 format because I'm part of a collective who does this sort of thing and swaps them.

I remove clicks and crackle from the discs with a program called ClickRepair. It's the best program out there. But it's not perfect -- no program is. There are some scratches you just can't remove from a WAV file -- not even if you zoom in on the file and try to do it manually.

Usually they're the scratches that are wedged into the music on an individual channel. And if you set the program too high you "blur" the sound, so that's not an option.

So I came up with an idea: What would happen if I split the left and right channels of my WAV file and made them individual mono files, then ran them separately through ClickRepair? After that I could put them back together in my main editing program (Audacity) and recreate the stereo WAV file. Would this work?

Worked like a charm. In fact, it worked so well that now I also do general noise reduction this way too.

[Suits]

(01-13-2015 04:50 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Women don't do their own thing or forge new paths, because it is not in their nature.

To be fair, most men don't forge new paths either. Women shouldn't feel left out.

At the same time, it's only fair to acknowledge that every improvement found in the world was created by a man.

[Dr. Howard]

(01-13-2015 12:03 AM)turkishcandy Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 11:22 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

As a Christmas gift I gave my ex-wife

You lost me there.

I know. The only thing I've ever given my ex wife for christmas are child support checks and this facial expression


She however, makes sure to give me ulcers on any occasion, not just the holidays.

[dads]

I think this a slightly ignorant question to ask. In a forum of so many intelligent, reasonable guys, I find it strange that it took me, 20 posts in to mention that, at the very least, there is a plethora of females striving to be the top in their sex-respective athletic endeavors. I know some female college athletes and they have more drive and passion for their sports than a lot of the men I see have for anything. Yeah, some are sluts, and some might have "concern for status", but I think that describes a lot of guys. Hell, I can tell you that of the hundreds of men I've really met and talked to in my life, maybe less than 1% fit into what you describe below.

Quote:

That is, men are engaged with ideas and abstractions, and have passions for things which only peripherally involve the social hierarchy. Men create art, music, science, technology, are fascinated by philosophy and systematisation, appreciate beauty for its own sake, and solve problems. Whereas women's experience of the world is mediated through other people. They need to be part of a group, and are at all times concerned with what others think of them. They fall into the frame of the strongest leader, or the media narrative, and are constantly anxious and seeking reassurance that they are a valued part of a tribe.

I have always agreed with this, but the more I think about it, the more it seems an absolute truth. Men are also concerned with status in the pecking order, group membership, etc, but the strongest and most intelligent, the ones that drive society, create their own new frame and new paradigms. Some of them are willing to become outcasts or even celibate rejects, in order to follow their inner light.

The average american male really isn't significantly better than the average woman. I haven't even mentioned some of the female musicians out there: