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Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis
#1

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

Hey folks! So this is mostly for people familiar with my epic beta oneitis post.:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-34397.html

On this thread it was strongly recommended that I read the book No More Mr. Nice Guy, which I just finished reading (also just read the game for the first time; highly entertaining), and I've decided to reach out to some local psychotherapists through the NMMNG website.

Below is a letter that I plan to send them, which outlines my recent troubles, which include fitness, dieting and medical issues. I wanted to share it here in case anyone has special insight, and also just to provide caution about some of my methods so others can avoid what I went through.

One the specific topic of fitness I want to share another one of my posts on a different site where I was previously receiving some guidance. Half way through the post there is a link to pics of body progress. I'm sharing that in case anyone relates or wants to discuss this particular fitness dilemma:

http://www.4hbtalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39282

Now here is the letter to the NMMNG doctors, which summarizes everything I've been struggling with, and where I am with everything now.

Cheers

--

I'm 33 and 2014 was a difficult year for me. I broke up with my best friend, who I had been close to for 17 years. I realized that I was in love with her and it was creating a lot of turmoil, so I had to let her know. She was sympathetic but didn't know how to react and never gave me a clear indicator of how she felt about it. Many months past with the issue on the back burner, and then I was blindsided by the fact that she'd left her boyfriend of 5 years and was seeing new people.

I told her that our friendship was in serious trouble because I couldn't get over her, or handle watching her date again. She responded that she needed time to reflect, and then never followed up. Then she began seeing a close friend of one of my friends, and I realized the relationship was extremely toxic. After a couple meltdowns I just stopped communicating with her all together one day. She was flabbergasted and sent me a number of dramatic messages. It took every bit of strength that I could muster, but per the advice on a men's online support group (where "No More Mr. Nice Guy" was recommended to me), I resisted the urge to respond until she finally gave up. It was the hardest thing I've ever done.

This was a serious personal paradigm shift, so I used it to kick my life into gear with some other changes and goals for self improvement. I had suffered throughout my teens self-conscious and overweight, with many friends both male and female, but never a girl friend, which led to years of low-self esteem, self-hate and binge eating disorder. In college I lost nearly 50lbs, but didn't use the best fitness methods and ended up with what's known as a "skinny-fat" appearance. This always bothered me. It was time to finish the job once and for all and reach the level of fitness I'd always desired.

I began an intensive strength training program on a strict paleo diet with intermittent fasting. I also started meditating, reading more, going for daily walks in the sun, standing at my computer stations at work and at home. After several months I began to see significant changes in my body composition. I could even see abdominal muscles for the first time in my life. The progress continued for several more months, and then my health took an unexpected turn.

It started with overly frequent urination, and then one day my sex drive disappeared by around 80-90%. Everything still worked but there was no spontaneous arousal, morning or nocturnal erections. I began seeing my doctor as well as a urologist to identify the problem and it was eventually determined that this was likely a side effect of a hair loss drug I was taking called finasteride; a condition called post finasteride syndrome (PFS), which for some causes permanent sexual dysfunction. I thought that life was over as I knew it. I was a healthy horny thirty-something man in LA, who could see countless attractive women and feel nothing at all. This was a very dark period.  

I stopped taking the finasteride immediately and began taking natural testosterone enhancers, as well as Xanax to improve my quality of sleep. This brought back my libido by around 40%, but I had no idea if I would continue to make improvements, and the urinary irregularities persisted. I continued on my diet and exercise program, but began having more and more relapses of binge eating. I couldn't understand how it was possible to feel such a loss of control over food.

So I began doing research in how to treat BED, and one day I stumbled across some new resources including Avishek Saha's http://www.stopbeingconfusedabouthealth.com/blog/, Matt Stone's 180degreehealth.com, and Jon Gabriel's http://www.thegabrielmethod.com. Through their books, videos and articles I learned about the real dangers of restrictive dieting such as veganism or Paleo nutrition, along with fasting and over-training.

According to this research calorie restriction can cause all kinds of unwanted side effects such as frequent urination, erectile dysfunction and fertility problems in women, after a honeymoon period of rapid fat loss, high energy and muscle gains. Once this period ends many people experience a metabolic crash, which causes their body temperature to stay abnormally low, sending stress levels through the roof, and causing uncontrollable cravings for sugar, starch and fat, which leads to excessive binging and eating disorders. The fitness progress then plateaus, often resulting in a higher amount of body fat than the dieter initially started with, and the destructive cycle continues. 

To treat my symptoms I've been using a recommended counterintuitive method called RRARF, or rehabilitative rest and aggressive refeeding, while monitoring my body temperature. This involves taking a break from intensive exercise and consuming large amounts of calorie dense foods, including certain "junk foods" for a period, until your regular body temperature reaches a healthy level and raises your metabolism.

This process does come with a period of fat gain, but ultimately neutralizes your appetite for "unhealthy" foods, promptly eliminating the need to binge, and primes your body for optimal and sustainable fitness, without ever dieting again and using balanced nutrition. More importantly the process is said to fully eliminate the sexual side effects of restrictive dieting and I am relieved to report that my sex drive has now been restored by around 80 to 90%.

So now I am trying to reintroduce myself into the dating scene after 4 years of being single as well as celibate. I have severe approach anxiety. I've decided to make an attempt at "nice guy recovery" to improve this aspect of my life among others, and reach my full potential as a man. As the book recommends I will need help working through some of my baggage that brought me to this point and address some of my deeper psychological issues.

I believe the eating disorder is finally under control with my current diet recovery program. But I still have problems with body image, as I'm regaining some body fat. A part of the recovery process requires that I not let myself worry about it and guide myself towards optimal fitness with visualization, keeping stress levels as low as possible and eating as much as I want to without guilt. The idea is to let go and use the low stress levels to your advantage, raising your metabolism so you become a fat burning machine.

It's just a challenge to get through the initial phase. People like me are terrified of becoming fat. Along with my nice guy issues, these concerns have always plagued me and gotten in the way of reaching any healthy level of confidence.

The other part of my physical recovery and fitness goal that I'm struggling with is sleep. I need to do it a lot more. I'm trying my best, but so far I'm almost always waking up after 6 hours, often feeling anxious and having to eat in order to get back to sleep for an additional hour or two. Ideally I'd be getting 8-10 hours to get the full benefits of the recovery process. It also might be extra difficult because I stopped taking Xanax.

In addition to the sleep issues and disordered relationship with food and body image, I have a marijuana addiction that I probably need to shake as a part of my over all recovery process. I had stopped recently for several weeks and I was feeling good about it. Then an event came up and I ended up with some weed, which I was able to have in the house without smoking, so I felt under control. Unfortunately this didn't last as I began using it to get myself back to sleep, and take the edge off after work, and it's a daily habit again.

I'm sure that this ties in with my other issues, which is why I should probably quit, at least for a long stretch of time. I feel dependent, or at least more than I'd like to. I worry that I'm just not as much fun, or relaxed and witty without it, so I feel pressure to get high for certain social occasions. When I'm fully sober I feel bored and anxious, which makes me less fun, energized or engaging. But it's irrational, because I know I'm the same person either way.

Despite everything, I do feel positive. There is a new sense of hope and self confidence that I've never felt before. I can feel myself changing rapidly after my recent shifts and revelations, and I believe I'm finally moving in the right direction. It's just that I'll probably need a little help along away.

Please let me know if I can schedule a free consultation with you or one of your colleagues and thank you for your time and consideration thus far.
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#2

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

I'm not sure what your post is asking-

I too live in LA (west LA), what's up?
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#3

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

You've got issues in your head, but they are solvable. Just don't expect to find the answer in a doctor's office.
Cut out the fad diets and exercise trends and all the useless crap that Tim Ferriss types want to sell you. No supplements, vitamins, and especially no addictive drugs like Xanax or placebo pills like anti depressants. Definitely stop smoking pot too...I'm the biggest pothead I've ever met and after many years of smoking non stop, am now 8 months sober, so it is very possible and will make your life so much better, richer, fuller, and more manageable.
Eat a balanced, healthy whole food diet with plenty of fruits and vegetables.
Focus on outdoor exercise like biking, hiking, and jogging. This will have a highly positive effect on your mood.
If you want, throw in some gym based weight training too, maybe 2-3 times a week...but I wouldn't recommend this for a while. You really want to focus on positive health and mental energy and do outdoor cardio exercise combined with body weight strength training like pushups, pullups, situps.

"Me llaman el desaparecido
Que cuando llega ya se ha ido
Volando vengo, volando voy
Deprisa deprisa a rumbo perdido"
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#4

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

Exactly.

Back to basics.

They're basics for a reason.
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#5

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

As far as food goes, I have baked chicken, pinto beans, rice and vegetables. Its almost impossible to binge on those, because theres nothing like tasteless chicken, pinto beans and unbutteres rice to ruin an appetite.

Can't be tempted to overeat when you limit your easy options
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#6

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

Wonderful thank you guys very much. Sorry I didn't make a TLDR version, I know that was kind of all over the place. But greet feedback. Very encouraging. You're right my docs are all useless, tired of throwing my money away.

I'm excited to use the "back to the basics" with a natural whole food based diet, getting out side for "fun" exercise. Gotta love being in socal where it's sunny almost year round. I look forward to taking advantage even more and just focusing on feeling great.

Happy to say I haven't felt the urge to do any bingeing since I began experimenting with this method, and by eating primarily the types of foods suggested I believe the problem will finally disappear for good. I also ran out of weed a few days ago so I'm going to go for it again and try to kick the habit completely.

Couple questions; I've heard before that supplements are pointless and I'm more than happy to stop taking them. However do you guys see any benefits to using probiotics to improve digestion? I still hear a lot of people say they're worth it. Wondering what you guys think.

How about a whole food multivitamin, D3 or alphalipoic acid? Any of those worth keeping? Or fuck all vitamins?

Lastly, my docs had me taking lipator because I had pretty high cholesterol. I resisted it for a while but I finally let my doc scare me into giving them a try. They worked well brining it way down almost immediately. But I hate being forced to spend money on big pharma meds, and I've read that it's unnatural to just sweep your high cholesterol under the rug with medication.

Do you guys think it's safe to quit taking my statin? I raised this question on another forum and got the following advice

--

A friend of mine plotted his cholesterol and glucose levels when his doc put him on a statin… cholesterol dropped like a rock – as desired – but glucose went through the ROOF.
When the Doc suggested a diabetic drug next, he told him he’d rather stop taking the statin… so that’s what they decided to do. Cholesterol levels went back up a little after that, but not to their previous levels.

You can listen to your Doc’s advice, but it’s still YOUR health. Don’t forget that cholesterol is a necessary building block of life… including being used by the brain for all sorts of cognitive functions.

From here: http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topic...nd-or-foe/
“Memory loss is one of the side effects of cholesterol-lowering drugs.”

--

Thanks again! I hate that we live in a world where doctors and the medial community are so unreliable. I appreciate you guys helping me out on this.

cheers
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#7

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

I took a 30 dolla 60 day probiotic from Costco, can't say definitively that it was a huge help but it did noticeably change my digestion.

I take flaxseed, fishoil and a multivitamin. All are pretty cheap and can't hurt so why not

Never dealt with cholesterol so no clue
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#8

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

I would say fuck all vitamins and supplements.
They only make sense if you either don't have the time or don't have the money to eat real food, but I think those are bullshit excuses people make because of being lazy or falling victim to propaganda by the supplement industry and its shills. Maybe they're useful if you're at sea in the 18th century and your teeth are falling out from scurvy and there's no fresh fruit.
Think of it this way - on a hundred dollar a month budget what would provide more nutrition and usable nutrients/vitamins - 100 bucks worth of vegetables and fruit from the farmer's market or 100 bucks worth of pills from GNC or the internet? Keep in mind that when you spend 100 bucks on vitamins at the retail level, at best the ingredient cost is probably about 7 or 8 bucks, and realistically maybe only like 2 or 3 bucks. The rest is marketing, transport, and profit. Your vitamin was likely made in a factory in China. Even if it wasn't, even if it was made by NASA with an unlimited budget in a sterile clean room, there is simply no man made pill that can come close to matching, let alone be superior to quality fresh fruits and vegetables.
As for cholesterol, maybe gradually getting off of the med you are taking as you improve your health naturally is the safest bet.

"Me llaman el desaparecido
Que cuando llega ya se ha ido
Volando vengo, volando voy
Deprisa deprisa a rumbo perdido"
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#9

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

^They don't really have them in LA, but Grocery Outlets have an excellent inventory of NatureMade vitamins for cheap. If you could spend 100 dollars a month there I'd like to know how, it's like 3-5 dollars for almost anything they have. I stay away from GNC because the prices are bullshit
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#10

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

Can you tell us the dosage of Finasteride you took? How were the results?

My understanding is 0.5mg 2 or 3 times a week should be sufficient but different doctors suggest different amounts.
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#11

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

Quote: (01-11-2015 03:23 PM)saturn Wrote:  

Can you tell us the dosage of Finasteride you took? How were the results?

My understanding is 0.5mg 2 or 3 times a week should be sufficient but different doctors suggest different amounts.

Finasteride, at any amount, will fuck your shit up. If you want a limp noodle, difficulty orgasming, and watery cum go right ahead and take it. I took it for about a year and it was a miserable experience.

Buy that foam minodoxil and massage it into your scalp every night before bed. It works at maintaining and growing hair all over your head but you have to use it religiously.

Benefit of it is that it doesn't mess with your libido or hurt your dick.

"Men willingly believe what they wish." - Julius Caesar, De Bello Gallico, Book III, Ch. 18
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#12

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

Quote: (01-11-2015 04:25 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

Quote: (01-11-2015 03:23 PM)saturn Wrote:  

Can you tell us the dosage of Finasteride you took? How were the results?

My understanding is 0.5mg 2 or 3 times a week should be sufficient but different doctors suggest different amounts.

Finasteride, at any amount, will fuck your shit up. If you want a limp noodle, difficulty orgasming, and watery cum go right ahead and take it. I took it for about a year and it was a miserable experience.

Buy that foam minodoxil and massage it into your scalp every night before bed. It works at maintaining and growing hair all over your head but you have to use it religiously.

Benefit of it is that it doesn't mess with your libido or hurt your dick.

can you tell us the dose. For me 0.5mg 3 times a week seems to have no side effects
Reply
#13

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

Quote: (01-11-2015 04:38 PM)saturn Wrote:  

Quote: (01-11-2015 04:25 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

Quote: (01-11-2015 03:23 PM)saturn Wrote:  

Can you tell us the dosage of Finasteride you took? How were the results?

My understanding is 0.5mg 2 or 3 times a week should be sufficient but different doctors suggest different amounts.

Finasteride, at any amount, will fuck your shit up. If you want a limp noodle, difficulty orgasming, and watery cum go right ahead and take it. I took it for about a year and it was a miserable experience.

Buy that foam minodoxil and massage it into your scalp every night before bed. It works at maintaining and growing hair all over your head but you have to use it religiously.

Benefit of it is that it doesn't mess with your libido or hurt your dick.

can you tell us the dose. For me 0.5mg 3 times a week seems to have no side effects

I was instructed to take 0.5mg every day by my former doctor. I cut back and it still gave me problems.

"Men willingly believe what they wish." - Julius Caesar, De Bello Gallico, Book III, Ch. 18
Reply
#14

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

Stop smoking dope completely.You sound like the people I use to take mental health hospitals when I worked on Ambulance.The Docs told me the biggest issue was dope abuse starting from when these people were 14 to 16.It takes away your drive and edge
I thought it was harmless till I dealt with a thousand fucked up users a year.
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#15

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

I was taking 1.5mg daily for years (using a pill splitter) and yes there were some decent results. But please please PLEASE be careful. It's SOOOOOO not worth it. Research Post-Finateride Syndrome (PFS). It's fucking gnarly bro. If you get it really badly it takes an average of around 50 months for the side effects to wear off. Some have permanent side effects and have committed suicide as a result. Nothing is worth killing your wiener. Going through ED will put you in a very dark place, believe me.

I think my issue was mostly related to my strict paleo diet, fasting and over training, but I know the finasteride played a part as well. When I stopped taking it, my sex drive started coming back (around 40-50%). Then it came roaring back (around 80-90%) when I went into diet recovery mode and started fixing my metabolism (if anyone else has experienced this, read Matt Stone's Eat for Heat, Diet Recovery 2, and 12 paleo myths). I was going entire weeks without jerking off. I would try to do it once/week just to make sure everyting still worked but it didn't bring much pleasure. Now it's a challenge not to do it every day.

There's a new product that's all natural called Revivogen. It's the only "natural" product that has clinical studies to back it up (about an 80% rate of success). I thought I'd give it a try and it seems to be working. But I can't be sure, because hairloss is also a side effect of wrecking your metabolism, so some of the regrowth might have to do with me working on that.

I'm also using the minoxidil foam, but only because I'd bought a few months worth a while back. I'll probably stop once it's gone, and I haven't decided if I'll continue with the other stuff. We'll see how it goes, but I seem to be hanging on to what I have for now and seeing some more thickness.

Ultimately it's probably best to just roll with it and accept baldness. I know it's hard. I hate losing my hair and I've had a complex about it for so long. But we're men after all and bald men are sexy. Look at all the manly celebs who are bald, and I see hot women with bald dudes all the time. I'm still experimenting with it, but I'm on the verge of just letting go so it doesn't stress me out.

I also firmly believe that nothing will speed up the process of hair loss like thinking and worrying about it. Meditate on total self acceptance and you might just find that the hair stays around much longer. Eating very well can't hurt, and I've heard that vitamin D is helpful too, but who knows if that's actually true.

Hope this helps!

Quote: (01-11-2015 03:23 PM)saturn Wrote:  

Can you tell us the dosage of Finasteride you took? How were the results?

My understanding is 0.5mg 2 or 3 times a week should be sufficient but different doctors suggest different amounts.
Reply
#16

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

I'm sorry to hear that you went through that man. How are you doing with it today? Feel free to shoot me a message if you want me to send you any links about ways to treat PFS, and what i found effective.

Quote: (01-11-2015 04:58 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

Quote: (01-11-2015 04:38 PM)saturn Wrote:  

Quote: (01-11-2015 04:25 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

Quote: (01-11-2015 03:23 PM)saturn Wrote:  

Can you tell us the dosage of Finasteride you took? How were the results?

My understanding is 0.5mg 2 or 3 times a week should be sufficient but different doctors suggest different amounts.

Finasteride, at any amount, will fuck your shit up. If you want a limp noodle, difficulty orgasming, and watery cum go right ahead and take it. I took it for about a year and it was a miserable experience.

Buy that foam minodoxil and massage it into your scalp every night before bed. It works at maintaining and growing hair all over your head but you have to use it religiously.

Benefit of it is that it doesn't mess with your libido or hurt your dick.

can you tell us the dose. For me 0.5mg 3 times a week seems to have no side effects

I was instructed to take 0.5mg every day by my former doctor. I cut back and it still gave me problems.
Reply
#17

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

I actually didn't smoke until I was around 20, but I agree with you it's not doing me any favors. Haven't bought any since I ran out. Gonna keep at it.

Thanks!

Quote: (01-11-2015 09:42 PM)Green-On-GO Wrote:  

Stop smoking dope completely.You sound like the people I use to take mental health hospitals when I worked on Ambulance.The Docs told me the biggest issue was dope abuse starting from when these people were 14 to 16.It takes away your drive and edge
I thought it was harmless till I dealt with a thousand fucked up users a year.
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#18

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

Quote: (01-12-2015 03:31 AM)EpicBeta Wrote:  

I'm sorry to hear that you went through that man. How are you doing with it today? Feel free to shoot me a message if you want me to send you any links about ways to treat PFS, and what i found effective.

Quote: (01-11-2015 04:58 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

Quote: (01-11-2015 04:38 PM)saturn Wrote:  

Quote: (01-11-2015 04:25 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

Quote: (01-11-2015 03:23 PM)saturn Wrote:  

Can you tell us the dosage of Finasteride you took? How were the results?

My understanding is 0.5mg 2 or 3 times a week should be sufficient but different doctors suggest different amounts.

Finasteride, at any amount, will fuck your shit up. If you want a limp noodle, difficulty orgasming, and watery cum go right ahead and take it. I took it for about a year and it was a miserable experience.

Buy that foam minodoxil and massage it into your scalp every night before bed. It works at maintaining and growing hair all over your head but you have to use it religiously.

Benefit of it is that it doesn't mess with your libido or hurt your dick.

can you tell us the dose. For me 0.5mg 3 times a week seems to have no side effects

I was instructed to take 0.5mg every day by my former doctor. I cut back and it still gave me problems.

This was years ago. Took about a month to get back to normal.

"Men willingly believe what they wish." - Julius Caesar, De Bello Gallico, Book III, Ch. 18
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#19

Cautionary tale about fitness, hair loss and oneitis

That's great! Very glad to hear that. cheers

Quote: (01-12-2015 10:00 AM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

Quote: (01-12-2015 03:31 AM)EpicBeta Wrote:  

I'm sorry to hear that you went through that man. How are you doing with it today? Feel free to shoot me a message if you want me to send you any links about ways to treat PFS, and what i found effective.

Quote: (01-11-2015 04:58 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

Quote: (01-11-2015 04:38 PM)saturn Wrote:  

Quote: (01-11-2015 04:25 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

Finasteride, at any amount, will fuck your shit up. If you want a limp noodle, difficulty orgasming, and watery cum go right ahead and take it. I took it for about a year and it was a miserable experience.

Buy that foam minodoxil and massage it into your scalp every night before bed. It works at maintaining and growing hair all over your head but you have to use it religiously.

Benefit of it is that it doesn't mess with your libido or hurt your dick.

can you tell us the dose. For me 0.5mg 3 times a week seems to have no side effects

I was instructed to take 0.5mg every day by my former doctor. I cut back and it still gave me problems.

This was years ago. Took about a month to get back to normal.
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