[Handsome Creepy Eel]

(01-10-2015 06:58 PM)JustlookingForAGoodTime Wrote:  

Known fact #2 -ALL SLOT MACHINES have pretty high odds but some have a better ROI.

How hard is this to understand?

OK.

Known Fact #3. It is impossible to know which machines have the better ROI.

Known Fact #4. "Better" does not have the same meaning as "positive".

[JustlookingForAGoodTime]

(01-12-2015 11:02 AM)1818Steve Wrote:  

(01-10-2015 06:58 PM)JustlookingForAGoodTime Wrote:  

Known fact #2 -ALL SLOT MACHINES have pretty high odds but some have a better ROI.

How hard is this to understand?

OK.

Known Fact #3. It is impossible to know which machines have the better ROI.

Known Fact #4. "Better" does not have the same meaning as "positive".

Known Fact #5-All machines in the high roller area have the better ROI

Known Fact #6-No casino machine has positive ROI.

Known Fact #7-No Risk, No reward.

[AneroidOcean]

(01-14-2015 05:20 PM)JustlookingForAGoodTime Wrote:  

Known Fact #6-No casino machine has positive ROI.

Actually, there are machines that can have a positive expected value in certain situations. One example outlined here:

http://www.winthebet.com/slotsadvantageplaymethods.php

Also, casinos do make mistakes and in some rare cases have the payouts setup in such a fashion that playing the right strategy can give you a positive expected value (albeit not by much but it can be enough that some people make meager to modest livings out of exploiting this).

There are times that a casino machine can have a positive ROI. It's just rare and not at all what CattleRustler was talking about.

(01-14-2015 05:20 PM)JustlookingForAGoodTime Wrote:  

Known Fact #7-No Risk, No reward.

This might sound nice and make you feel better, but it doesn't have any relevance on the factors involved.

(01-10-2015 05:54 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

I just reread his post and still didn't get the "reliable" income angle.

Hopefully he doesn't think that way but if he does no one here will talk him out of it. Some people need to learn through experience.

Okay, let's break down his post. My bold for emphasis:

(01-06-2015 09:37 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

After reading this post by JustLookingForAGoodTime's post here http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-43776-...#pid924232

Quote:

The best payouts in any casino are the high roller areas. You know, the ones where $5 is the minimum play. Those machines are the loosest in joint since the max play is so much higher compared to regular machines that you can hit more often and more profit. Takes some priming of the well but when the going is good, you are going to get paid lovely.

I was motivated to write a post that turned out rather detailed and hits the topic right away. This summer I went gambling quite a bit, learned from a high roller, and managed to make some decent coin.

The implication here and with the thread being titled a "data sheet" is that he learned something which resulted in him making money.

(01-06-2015 09:37 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

In order to win at the casino you need to have a modest amount of money, 500 at least. The more the better the chances. Some here know of my casino stories but there have been times where I went with a broad and got 15k a day.. And 10k the next day. There was a "stop" period and had a good amount to start with.

Max and hit the middle leagues. Fuck one dollar bets. Do $5-$50 slots. I've hit $1,200 just by betting 15 dollars at a time.

Again, he states that in order to win (make money) you need to do x. This is categorically untrue. The amount of your bankroll does NOT affect your "chances" (probability) at all. What it can do is minimize your variance but even that won't affect your ROI.

(01-06-2015 09:37 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

You will always hear the high roller area machine's buzz all the time. The best times to win are Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights; the probability to win goes down on weekdays as there is less traffic which means the machines aren't churning as much.

Again, a statement that is completely false. Barring methods like I linked above (which are not what CattleRustler is laying out in this "data sheet"), the probability of winning does not change without the Casino changing a chip in the machine.

(01-06-2015 09:37 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

Here's the thing with slots, they have a "payout" period where they will constantly give you money and a period where you won't win and the machine will keep taking your money. The key is knowing the periods, it's like stocks....you will never "hit it", it's more intuition and "how you see things sliding".

Some machines payout all night long. I remember playing one fucking machine from 10pm until 5am. Got a nice payout. Whenever I saw the non-winning period I would step back and let another sucker lose their money until they got pissed and left....I would lose some money but eventually the machine starting spitting money again.

Wrong again. There is no predetermined payout period. This is like people coming up to a roulette table and seeing that it has hit black 5 times in a row and then betting on red, thinking that certainly since it has hit black 5 times already, it's bound to hit red.

Below is actually a section with a bunch of USEFUL information. While I wouldn't really call it a "data sheet" if there's ANY defending his post, it would be the things I highlight in bold below:

(01-06-2015 09:37 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

Also, as I just mentioned, there will be people watching you closely if they see you win a lot. They will sit near you and wait until you leave so they can start playing the machine. Use this to your advantage when you see the slot not spitting money. Some are sneaky little fuckers, one tried to get on my seat just as I got up and tried to take my ID out. At this point I had a casino member and a cop on lock so they told the chinese lady to fuck off. I got them on lock by kept giving them a "tip" every time they delivered a prize that only a casino staff member could give, which happens above $1,200; and because the bitch I went was a regular down there.

Also, check the ticket cashing machines to see what's the limit they will give without an ID. Don't let any of your ticket stubs go above this limit unless you want them to be reported to the IRS. You will pay a tax on them at the end of the year, or you can pay them right there if you do not have an ID. Unfortunately there is no way to avoid this if you hit a prize above 1,200 in the slots. The slot will stop playing and an attendant will come to ask for ID, then will come with a cop to give you your money. Do not leave the area when the attendant leaves to get your money, this will invalidate your prize. Also, when the attendant comes with the popo, give them a tip for faster service. Time is money here, and you will get additional "play" cash on the house so one should put that to good use.

Here's where it gets ludicrous again. The player's card does not affect your probabilities AT ALL:

(01-06-2015 09:37 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

Also, if you see the machine not giving any money cash out, then put the ticket stub or fresh money back in. If you have a players card, switch it out once in a while. This will confuse the machine and think it's a new person, which will probably change the probabilities.

I'm leaving the part in bold below bolded because it's good advice. Your best odds (still negative EV) are absolutely with the max bet option. This is, shockingly, due to the payouts and that "math" thing.

(01-06-2015 09:37 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

There was this one time where I played the 100 slot and got a lucky hit for $1200 bucks. That was pure luck so I grabbed my cash and left to other slots. Always, almost always max bet!! You will facepalm so many times when you bet one or bet two, only for the best characters show up and you missed out because you didn't max bet.

Funnily enough, then he contradicts his own GOOD advice! Check it out, he says that if you are in a losing streak you shouldn't max bet. In fact, not betting that max bet is essentially believing that these are not independent events. Classic gambler mentality.

(01-06-2015 09:37 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

I let a 20K prize go because I was too lazy to put in an additional 20 dollars. Bet one when you're in a losing streak.

Here he again mentions the concept of a payout period and a losing period. You should "measure the winning/losing wave." Even if you somehow believe this to be true, he doesn't provide any DATA or FACTS or MEASUREMENT METHODOLOGY for how to figure out this mythical "wave" he's talking about.

(01-06-2015 09:37 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

As I mentioned, certain machines will give out cash throughout the night and you will see people come and go, trying to test your luck. The best thing is to measure the winning/losing wave.

And he finishes with:

(01-06-2015 09:37 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

Call it what you want but what I just wrote is what worked for me.



That was half the winnings in one night just playing slots on a Thursday night. Friday and Saturday were composed of getting a hotel and getting fucked up. Those winnings were by playing the max bet, 15 bucks most of the time.

The casinos love people like CattleRustler who win and talk a lot about how they have a way to keep winning overall. This was viral marketing before there was viral marketing.

This is confirmation bias, nothing more.

I'm not knocking CattleRustler winning money and certainly not knocking worldwidetraveler's grandparents winning money.

What I think is very important was best summed up by Peregrine so I'll just quote him with the best line in bold below:

(01-10-2015 01:53 AM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Even though a fair coin's probability of turning up heads is 50/50, streaks of heads after heads after heads can and frequently do happen. Does that mean the probability is not 50/50? No. Just because your grandparents may have stayed in the black after decades of play does not invalidate the fact that slots are negative EV (like every other game in the casino).

I'm not saying don't play slots. Heck, I bought a bunch of lottery tickets on the way home from work today. Those are basically the definition of a statistical waste of money. Don't care, it's not a lot of money and I got to daydream about what I'd do with X million dollars. Same with the casino - I gamble even though I know it's negative EV. Cost of entertainment.

But when a datasheet has demonstrably incorrect information, someone should say something.

Man, this is making me want to go to Vegas.

[JustlookingForAGoodTime]

Let me see if i can make myself a bit clearer since everyone here seems to miss the point time after time.

HIGH ROLLER SECTION of the casino is the only place where you have a better chance of making money on slots! Easy enough to understand?

How would i know? I've worked and hung out in enough casinos both on and off the Strip. If you want to take your chances with regular slots i would suggest you go to a "locals" casino. I don't play slots myself. Hell, the only things i do in a casino are poker and the sports book. Blackjack is good if you know the ins and outs and are sharp but IMO everything else is for suckers.

Once in a blue moon i'll try the megabucks machine but that's pretty much it.

[Independent1]

(01-06-2015 10:06 PM)JustlookingForAGoodTime Wrote:  

Just as Cattle Rustler said, ALWAYS play the max on a machine. I'll also add to stay away from the penny shit as you'll look like a stupid cheap ass tourist and the odds of hitting on one of those is steeper than MT Everest.

People hitting but not playing max stories are legion in Las Vegas and the player's reactions sometimes have become casino legends. Where i worked down in Primm (45 miles south of Vegas) we had a time some years back where a middle aged Korean guy was playing the Megabucks machine (A multi casino, statewide progressive) and went off to to go get more cash. He told his wife to just sit there and hold the machine, but don't touch ANYTHING.

You know where this is going.

Sure enough she played $1 instead of the $3 max and hit the big one! So here comes hubby running back all excited and shit until he saw that she only played the single dollar. Want to know how much she blew by being miss cheapskate? She blew a $10,000,000 payoff. Yes. Ten MILLION dollars! She was only going to get like maybe, 2-5000, i forget. Husband was so fucking enraged that he began beating the absolute living hell out of his wife right there in the middle of the casino. Really letting her have it so viciously that no one lifted a finger to help her as this guy was going insane. Blood splattering on everything nearby. She was in deep shit. Finally a pair of security guards jumped him but he fought them off and continued on his wife until they basically grabbed stools and pounded away at him. All the time he was screaming at her that he was divorcing her, she had to get out of the house, he never wanted to see her again, etc, etc.

Moral of story? Max play for max money so you don't get your ass kicked!

The fact she changed the bet from a $3 to 1 $1 spin changes everything. These machines are electronic and as soon as the stakes are changed the whole system does. Just because she changed the stake and rolled in jackpot doesn't mean it would have done the same on a higher stake...

[AneroidOcean]

(01-14-2015 08:09 PM)JustlookingForAGoodTime Wrote:  

HIGH ROLLER SECTION of the casino is the only place where you have a better chance of making money on slots! Easy enough to understand?

Your wording is confusing. Can you define "making money on slots?"

[Aliblahba]

I have $275 burning a hole in my pocket and am in Louisiana. Any advice on how to play it to make a profit? There's slot machines all over out here.

[jariel]

I don't mean to badmouth the OP or this particular thread, but I'll say this:

If you were to go out to clubs five nights a week, by the end of the year chances are you would have had a few crazy nights, after all we're talking about going out 260 times, however, the vast majority of those times would have been a waste of your time.

So even if you had 10 great nights, you had 250 nights that weren't memorable, so should you advocate going out regularly five nights a week, which let's say consists of binge drinking, spending money, etc.?

What gamblers do is have a lot of nights in which they lose and a couple of times where they are victorious, and for them it justifies the gambling.

As others have said, gambling more often, higher amounts, etc. creates the illusion that at some point you will win. Even though you may win, there's no steadfast rule or system, just pressing a button or pulling down a lever requires nothing more than pure luck.

This community does a lot to help guys get on the track of getting their money right. It's my opinion that gambling -- in this manner -- is a loser's hobby. We're trying to teach people here how to be winners, so it is my opinion a thread of this nature goes against one of the community's ultimate goals, it's no better than a "lottery scratch-off ticket datasheet".

That is it to say, it's not a datasheet at all.

[heavy]

Casinos aren't stupid. They have the odds, which means over time, you lose. There are places, games, strategies, where you have "better" odds, but I believe** "better" simply means approaching 50% if you play it perfectly.

For instance, if you play blackjack perfectly, counting cards, and the casino is using 5 decks, you may have a 48.6% chance. But make no mistake it's a losers chance nonetheless.

**This is an area I will admit ignorance. Are there areas of the floor or games or tendencies where casinos use "loss leaders"? While I doubt they do, to this point I have no knowledge.

Why do I doubt they have loss leaders?
- Because the few times I've been in casinos I see so many degenerate, washed up rode-hard-put-away-wet gamblers throwing many at what "they know" are loss leaders, jumping on machines they think are about to hit and spending the last of their savings.
- Because my friends who consistently go to gamble know about loss leaders and try to exploit them, to no avail. And these same friends, smart guys, lose more money than they win.
- And the biggest reason: because it's good enough for casinos that gamblers think there are loss leaders without there actually being loss leaders. You can compare prescription costs between Walgreens and Walmart, but it's tough to compare odds between one specific slot-machine at The Mirage and one at Wynn.

That's nothing against CR, I love his posts and actually enjoyed the OP. And that's nothing against gamblers. I have good friends who love doing it. I gotta say, though, I thought AneroidOcean's post was spot on.

[Cattle Rustler]

Started with a 100. Went to a 1000. Lost it all. Got drunk. Went up 500,callijg it a night