[Impulse]

Today, my high school had it's annual 'College Day'; a full day of workshops in which last year's graduating class returned to speak on their experiences during their first semester. The workshops themselves were fine, informative, and at times entertaining; a particular sentiment shared by these returning students as well as the teachers bothered me.

Throughout the day, we were badgered with the notion that a necessary attitude change and vigorous work-ethic was required if we planned to get anywhere in college. A lack of responsibility has never been a character trait of mine, but what did strike me was how the working of college itself was described. The adage was that: "College is a business", which I'm capable of understanding. What truly deterred me was this seemingly dehumanizing stance of high school graduates attending college.

The prevailing ideology of the students themselves(who seemed almost clueless as to what they'd do without college which frightened me), and the aged teachers who were asking the questions, was this notion that the debt on top of the other costs that must be paid back, was all worth it.

The thought of attending college is debatable to me at this point. Inevitable debt which I'll likely be paying off until I'm in my forties in combination with the belief that in college you're merely a number has turned me off from it all together. Perhaps I'm being far too soft-minded, but I can't shake this feeling of deception at the hands of uninformed cogs in an ever-turning wheel. This feeling of my coming loss of identity and individuality; after all it is college that turns so many young adults, both male and female into useful idiots.

I ask: Is college worth the expense, both monetary and mental?

[MidWest]

You should post here

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-43510.html

[Baldwin81]

Impulse, as someone probably 10 to 15 years older than you I would say the following:

You're seeing through a lot of bullshit that most people at age 17 or 18 would accept as gospel. Respect to you, because some of us find out the hard way - much later in life - that a lot of that "oh I NEED to do that (go to college, get married, be the 'nice' guy)" is just nonsense. So long as you keep your current perspective then in my anonymous opinion you're going to do more than fine (go easy on the drugs and the drink though!).

As for your question, I'll be a bit of an economist and give you an "on the one hand" and "on the other hand":

To turn down a Harvard, Yale, or Princeton because of the debt load is probably a bad idea. Those places can put you in a great position whether they're infested with SJWs or not.

On the other hand, I have friends who were and are good little cogs paying down college debt well into their thirties. They're stuck in a corporate job making 50 k a year, live at home, and are afraid to make a move (out of the job or out of the house) because of that debt. Of course, these dudes are going to buy a diamond ring for their porky little girlfriends once the debt is paid off, but that's really no surprise, is it?


Take this advice for how much it's costing you, but...

Give real consideration to how you want to earn a living. It's not fair that we have to make these decisions that will impact the next twenty years right now, but that's life. If you can genuinely do what you want to do without college then fuck it. If you think college will help, there are ways to do it without hurting yourself financially: For instance, community or juco for a bit, and then transfer to your flagship state school. Also, if you haven't read it, I would suggest James Altucher's book Choose Yourself. Based on what you posted, you're ready to read it and will understand it without succumbing to "groupthink." I would not have been ready for this book at 18.

Lastly, and this is somewhat off topic, but some of those "cogs in the machine" people will - for whatever reason - choose not to go to college. These people will be the most status-obsessed, materialistic weirdos and it will all stem from their inferiority complex because they only have an HS education. Just the way you're seeing all this right now tells me that you won't be one of those type of people.

Think hard, examine all the options, and consider this your first proper adult decision. Best wishes to you.

PS I don't mean any of this as "I'm a condescending old guy." I'm sure you get enough of those conversations.

[Sonsowey]

Do not go into huge debt to attend college. If you can attend an elite institution, do it, otherwise go somewheret hat will give you big scholarships or is a state school.

College was an amazing time for me, more than anything it was a lot of fun and very little responsibility.

Pick a major with real use and financial opportunities, work during college so you can begin developing real work ethic, get a good internship over the summers, and have a good time.

[Sonoma]

Go- if you do a state institution, file your FASFA (fucking do that right now), you'll incur minimal debt as long as you work while in school.

College only requires 15 hours a week, so you can easily do full time work while studying, at least during your gen ed years.

Also, the amount of pussy in college can't be understated

[Cr33pin]

[Laurifer]

You should do college if you have a predetermined path you want to take that absolutely requires a formal education. You won't ever hear a petroleum engineer say "College is a scam bro!!" It's a scam if you let it scam you.

You have to do college smart if you don't want soul crushing debt. That was my biggest concern going in. Go to community college and push to get into their honors program, they will usually cover your tuition. Then work during your summers, transfer in-state, intern (hopefully paid) for a summer or semester, and you'll come out in decent shape.

[Ronald Reagan]

Pretty much what the poster above me said. Plan out your career or career options, go to a community college for the general eds. because it's cheap and gives you more time to plan ahead. Transfer to a 4-year university and get a useful degree. You must also intern in college so that you have work experience. Word of caution check out the 4 year universities financial aid before you enroll in a community college because freshman get way more assistance than transfer students.

[Americas]

One of the biggest "lies" out there is that you have to go straight to college and be out as soon as possible. This to me is the biggest pile of nonsense of all the college dogma.

I hustled for 2 years out of high school and managed to set myself up with a passive income + went to community college. I didn't actually attend real university until I was 22 and by that time I was really ready to kill it + had the finances to not incur a single penny of debt. I won a bunch of awards and research internships in my senior year that I even came out of it with quite a bit of money still in the bank.

I highly recommend to a lot of students coming out of high school to sit on it for a bit, maybe one year, maybe more, just to see where you actually want to be when you actually make this big decision. And that's the thing: making a decision this big at 18 is actually pretty ridiculous when you think about it. Sure if you are a 4.0 HS genius and get scholarships + acceptances to elite institutions this advice isn't really necessarily, but for the vast majority of us it is something to consider.

The amount of kids who wallow for the first year or two in college deciding which major to do or even where they want to end up career wise often do poorly in their classes, put themselves in high levels of debt, and fuck around a lot. A lot of first and second year students also have never actually lived their lives yet so they get to university and do all types of drugs, drink, party, and basically lose the reason why they go there in the first place: to kill it.

Taking a year or two to plan out things out and it could put you in a better financial place + allow you to actually find what you are passionate about academically + mature a bit before going to university.

Travel a bit, grab a trade, work in the entertainment industry, hustle, start a side business, whatever, just grow a bit and maybe you will start seeing things a bit more clearly.

[Baldwin81]

^ Great advice one post above...

[Easy_C]

I'd like to add a bit more depth to what you're seeing in this thread.

"Should I go to college" isn't a flat answer. The question is do you know what you want to do, and what is the best level of school (Ivy League, top 30, etc) that you can get into.

Everyone on here knows that your earning potential can vary widely by degree. What they don't mention is much is that even for the same degree, the profitability can vary widely by region. People with a generic business degree from Wharton at UPenn are going to do very well, while people with a business degree from a B-grade state college are probably going to find themselves in an "Assistant manager" job with that four your degree...that they easily could have attained after busting their ass for a year from entry level.

Do the following, in this order, before you decide


Identify potential fields that you are interested in studying. If you don't have a concrete interest that is OK. There a number of degrees(such as finance and engineering) that have a high level of career flexibility and also teach you key skills that you would need to start your own business(e.g., if you later learn plumbing and start your own firm it will be much easier if you can do basic managerial accounting).

Once you've done that identify schools in those field and gauge what league of school you can get into. Can you get into a top 10? A top 30? Your own marketability is a key factor. Identify it both on paper and by subjectively gauging your soft skills and resume. It can also help if you get in touch with people who have experience in admissions who can give you some more in depth feedback.

Next step, and most important: Pick out some stretch, intermediate, and "safe" schools. You are going to do some digging. Begin by going onto each schools career services page. You're looking for placement information. You want to find out how many of their graduates get jobs after graduation, examples of hiring companies, and the average salary for students in your field. I also recommend talking to their career services office before even implying and seeing what information you can get out of them. Researching industry-specific discussion boards can also be helpful.


After that you need to conduct your own cost-benefit analysis. Is getting a degree in a certain field worth the investment you make? Your data will give you the answer. For example let's compare two major state schools(at the MBA level, because that's what I know). CU Boulder's MBA students place with about 72% employment after 3 months, with an average salary of 75k. Marginal return on investment for the expense and time you put into it......you can do better even coming out of a technical job in the military. On the other hand the University of Wisconsin's MBA students place with an average salary of 96k(and that's just base) with 94% placed. Some of their specializations go over 110k base salary on average. Given a pay bump that significant, even paying for it completely out of pocket means you'll have cleared your debt in a few years.

Similar disparities exist between different undergraduate institutions, even of the same type. Engineering students from Georgia Tech or MIT typically enjoy very high salaries compared to engineering students from your city's local 4 year college.


You may find that your own competitiveness isn't enough to justify the payoff. If you still really want to go that route, I'd suggesting taking America's advice. You can boost your resume with strong work experience and in your off time take some classes(I suggest marketing or accounting) that will give you some hard, easily transferable business skills while simultaneously strengthening your academic resume.