[Agreddor]

If you could devote all your free time to learning languages, would you spend it perfecting one language? Or would you spend it learning the basics of many different languages?

This is the dilemma I'm facing right now. I'm not a native English speaker, but ironically, of the 4 languages I speak, I am most fluent in English.

I have contemplated learning German, Russian, or Arabic, but have put it off as I have been busy reading English poetry and literature originating from different literary movements.

Thoughts?

[Americas]

One language, no question.

Chances are, if you know a little of a bunch of languages you will forget pretty much everything anyways.

At least if you focus on one, then you can make it part of your life and maintain it.

I also don't see the point of ever being a beginner of another language and not moving past that point. What does that actually get you? The ability to order food in a restaurant?

[Frank Rook]

Depends on my reasons.
I'm fluent in four currently. Grew up bilingual & picked up the other two & a few others over the years.
If i'm trying to impress people & be a hipster smart ass I suppose i'd learn a smattering of many languages.

I' think it's better to be very good at one language & then use that language to give you the foundation to be fluent in another & so on.
My reasons for learning a language:

1) I can think in another culture's viewpoint. Understand why people of a certain culture express themselves a certain way.
2)It's just adding another personality.That's Jason Bourne level cool
3) Fun
4)Relationships (women, business etc)

If you're fluent in English & you want to leverage on that, why not start with Spanish?
1) entire South American continent speaks it
2) Useful if you ever decide to work with the United Nations, heh.
3) may make it easier if you ever want to use that to leverage learning other Latin/Romance languages like Italian, Portuguese or French.
4) access to potentially gorgeous women

Or, you could go with Mandarin, if you plan on heading East.
1) teaches you the concept of a tonal language
2) no pesky tenses or conjugation, yeah!!
3) seems difficult but there's a fairly logical structure to it. Once you grasp the pattern, in some ways it's easier than English.
4) Can be leveraged (not a lot) to learn Cantonese if you're spending significant time in Hong Kong or Macau or Malaysia.

With Arabic (Middle eastern or North African?), i'd learn it if i was spending significant time in those entire regions or I wanted to work in Western intelligence or the Oil & Gas industry.
Arabic & certainly Russian would be on my bucket list for languages.

To answer your question, i'd encourage being very fluent in one language first instead of diffusing your effort. To be truly fluent, you need to be able to think in that particular language. To express emotion, impulsively curse, etc in that language.
You need a strong reason to immerse yourself in a particular language. Strong as in you get bagged & dropped into Russia or Eastern Ukraine & you're forced to know Russian type strong.

[Kitsune]

You'd need to define "fluent" and "mastery" before this conversation has any real merit. For instance:

Quote:

To answer your question, i'd encourage being very fluent in one language first instead of diffusing your effort. To be truly fluent, you need to be able to think in that particular language. To express emotion, impulsively curse, etc in that language.
You need a strong reason to immerse yourself in a particular language. Strong as in you get bagged & dropped into Russia or Eastern Ukraine & you're forced to know Russian type strong.

These definitions of fluent aren't really 'fluent' at all. For instance, I can think in French (I'm upper intermediate at best,) I can express emotions in Spanish (I'm lower intermediate at best) and I could comfortably survive if somebody dropped me in Siberia on a random day. (I'm at best an A2 at Russian.) I'm not trying to pick on you or anything Frank Rook, that just is what it is.

Survival and basic skills in a language are really over-rated. Just look at London or any other metropolitan city: Millions of people get by with just the smallest bit of English. Fluency is under-rated though. If you're talking C1 on the European Framework scale, that's graduate level. I think I've met less than a handful of foreign speakers who were really fluent in English, as in they were C1 on the scale. C2 is something else entirely; most native speakers aren't C2, so foreigners don't really stand a chance.

As for whether you should become fluent or whatever, there's a discussion going on in this thread:
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-43113.html about fluency. Essentially, there's no point in even worrying about becoming fluent. Try and learn, and you'll either stick with it and become good at it or you won't.

You wouldn't say, "Should I master Muay Thai or learn ten martial arts?" You'll either do Muay Thai and hate it and quit, or do Muay Thai and like it. Then you might in a year's time expand out or you might not. There might be biological reasons why you can't master Muay Thai that you don't even know about until you take a kick to the mid-section a couple of times. Learning languages is the same: There's no sense in saying, "I'm going to master Russian" because you might spend six months on it and then come across some aspect that takes you ten years to learn.

My advice for anyone learning a language is to get to step one and then worry about getting to step two. Until you've learned 500 words and a few grammar rules, you aren't going to have any idea about your enjoyment or potential for the language. So do that first then worry abuot whether you want to swap or continue.

[Dalaran1991]

Depends. For practical purposes there are incentives to be fluent in 3-4 languages so that you can sing in Spanish, salute in Japanese, do business in the Anglosphere and going on vacation in France. It doesnt even take that long, I d say 2 years average. If you actually live in the country then I would say it takes 6 months.

But if you are really seeking self-identification with another culture and feel a deep desire to understand every nugget of it, then you should try to master the language.

Mastery of a language has more to do with the culture itself than the mechanics of language. You need to live among the people and understand the culture, why things are the way they are if you want to really "go native". Adopting the local accent would also be a milestone.

It is very easy to be "business-proficient" in a language. You just need to get the point across along with the details. However to be considered "one of us" in another language, there is so much more you have to learn. English has the "hood" talk, French has the "verlan" etc. There's also a whole different mentality behind each language. In French for ex. you dont say "I miss you" but rather "you are missing in me/you are missed by me" if you go really literal with it. I think the final test is when you actually understand and appreciate their sense of humor. So many people say they are "masters" of a particular language but cant understand a joke.

That said, you shouldnt try to talk like an un-educated local either. Though it does make you seem more fluent if you talk with nigga swag over-use of it just shows you are not culturally calibrated.

I ve met maybe 2 persons in my life who really mastered another language. Normally there are very few reasons why one needs to really master another language. Like Russian blondes is not a reason strong enough to master Russian.

[azulsombra]

(12-09-2014 12:07 PM)Frank Rook Wrote:  

If you're fluent in English & you want to leverage on that, why not start with Spanish?
1) entire South American continent speaks it

Don't tell these guys that.

[Agreddor]

@ frank brook

Cantonese was my first language, followed by mandarin, English, then Japanese.

I schooled in International schools growing up, where a huge emphasis is placed on English,

One thing I have come to realise about being able to speak multiple languages is that there is often some form of dissonance.

Eg. Words in cantonese are phrased differently from that of Mandarin, and often when I speak Mandarin I have to translate from Cantonese. This can be rather inaccurate and embarrasing at times, to say the least.

[Agreddor]

I do agree that mastery of a language has more to do with the culture over its mechanics.

On a side note, has anyone noticed that the Germans have countless philosophers but few poets? The french, more poets than philosophers? And how some languages produce very few poets and philosophers? Eg. Bahasa Indonesian and korean

[monster]

I went to college with a few guys & girls who could speak 5+ languages fluently & naturally. I've struggled with only English!!! It always made me very jealous.

[Agreddor]

Were they european by any chance?

[Americas]

(12-09-2014 09:36 PM)Agreddor Wrote:  

I do agree that mastery of a language has more to do with the culture over its mechanics.

On a side note, has anyone noticed that the Germans have countless philosophers but few poets? The french, more poets than philosophers? And how some languages produce very few poets and philosophers? Eg. Bahasa Indonesian and korean

Well, I don't know. There were a lot of prominent French philosophers:

Descartes
Foucault
Montesquieu
Rousseau
Berthelot
Cavailles
Voltaire
Malebranche

In fact, much of modern philosophy was influenced by French writers, particularly Descartes. Moreover, many of the main tenets of the Enlightenment period were heavily influenced by French philosophy.

[Agreddor]

Let me rephrase my sentence. Germany is known for its philosophers, not its poets. The french, like english have a good balance of philosophers and poets.

[Saweeep]

"Jack of all trades, master of none" is a derogatory comment for a reason.

[Frank Rook]

(12-09-2014 09:18 PM)Agreddor Wrote:  

@ frank brook

Cantonese was my first language, followed by mandarin, English, then Japanese.

I schooled in International schools growing up, where a huge emphasis is placed on English,

One thing I have come to realise about being able to speak multiple languages is that there is often some form of dissonance.

Eg. Words in cantonese are phrased differently from that of Mandarin, and often when I speak Mandarin I have to translate from Cantonese. This can be rather inaccurate and embarrasing at times, to say the least.

Looks like you're well covered in two tone based languages then. Yeah, i tried to pick up Cantonese earlier in the year as I was contracted to work in Hong Kong & i agree about the dissonance. I'm far from being solid in Cantonese though. Slow progress. And the Mandarin does throw in confusion my way now & then.

So, what would your reason be for getting another language in your toolbox?
Do you have a criteria?

[Hardy Daytona]

As a multi-lingual who speaks Spanish, French, English and a smattering of Japanese, I'd throw my weight behind learning many.

I think I was about 8 or so when I started on French and around 11 for Spanish and Japanese so I've had quite a bit of exposure.
It's interesting to note a lot of similarities in verb conjugations and vocabulary between regional dialects and noting the comparisons with regards to a father tongue i.e. the differences between Castilian Spanish with Latin heritage and its southern counterparts influenced by the Moors.

This can lead to historical observation with overtures of sociology, so it certainly branches out to other intellectual areas.

Romanised languages are vastly different from Eastern languages though.
Japanese has 3 different 'alphabets' - hiragana for the native language, katakana for western adaptations and kanji for Chinese derivatives.
I can read, write and speak it but actually comprehend very little.

I'd say it's more time-intensive to learn a character-based language.

As with most decisions, the final one is of course yours.
There needs to be a balance of practical usage in a day-to-day environment to prevent stagnation, but it also has to be something you enjoy and want to learn.
But considering the over-arching influence of Germany in Europe with regards to the European Union and continental economics, I'd suggest German.

[Seth_Rose]

If I had to choose it would definitely be the basics of many.

Learning languages helps develop rapport with native speakers even if you aren't fluent or even close to it. For example, I took a semester of Portuguese and I remember running into two Brazilian girls and all I could remember was "Eu falo Portuguese". They were impressed that I "Knew" Portuguese, and it was an instant conversation starter. They admire the fact that a non-native was at least aware of their language.

Also, if you know the basics of a few languages (e.g. English, Spanish, Portuguese, Russian) you can travel the world and be able to get by with what you know, whereas becoming fluent in Mandarin won't help you buy groceries in Nicaragua.

Russian is the language I know best and I want to improve my skills to where I'm close to fluent. However, there comes a point of diminishing returns because at some point knowing a few random words like 'corkscrew' or 'penguin' aren't going to enhance my conversations significantly.

The two reasons I would want to become fluent in a language are 1.) I planned on living there for an extended period of time/settling down there or 2.) I want to have a career or operate a business that requires me to be fluent in that language.

[Americas]

(12-10-2014 12:15 PM)Seth_Rose Wrote:  

If I had to choose it would definitely be the basics of many.

Learning languages helps develop rapport with native speakers even if you aren't fluent or even close to it. For example, I took a semester of Portuguese and I remember running into two Brazilian girls and all I could remember was "Eu falo Portuguese". They were impressed that I "Knew" Portuguese, and it was an instant conversation starter. They admire the fact that a non-native was at least aware of their language.

And if you were actually able to carry a conversation with them in Portuguese they would have even been more impressed. In fact, I would reckon the likelihood of being able to close with one of them would have been at least two-fold.

Quote:

Also, if you know the basics of a few languages (e.g. English, Spanish, Portuguese, Russian) you can travel the world and be able to get by with what you know, whereas becoming fluent in Mandarin won't help you buy groceries in Nicaragua.

Being fluent in English + advanced skills in Spanish allows you to travel and converse with people in 43 countries. That is nearly 1/3 of the entire world.

Secondly, learning to "get by" is incredibly easy. Two weeks of study and immersion allows you to learn numbers, simple greetings (hello, thank you), some pronouns, a few common verbs and their conjugations in the present tense, and a limited vocabulary. That is all it takes to get by when travelling.

Quote:

The two reasons I would want to become fluent in a language are 1.) I planned on living there for an extended period of time/settling down there or 2.) I want to have a career or operate a business that requires me to be fluent in that language.

I can agree with this. There isn't much of a point in spending the enormous amount of time and resources becoming advanced in a language that you don't intend to use. Although, you can easily make any language part of your life if you really wanted to.

[Praetor Lupus]

I'd rather have a basic knowledge of many as I could build upon them more quickly if I'm going somewhere. I'm also interested in language generally so I'd be able to see how certain languages have commonalities.

[Agreddor]

@frank brook

I live in Singapore and I've noticed something about the women here. English is supposedly our first language (people here speak it very badly) and the women here are bitchy as fuck. Basically they're asian with westernized bitch shields.

In contrast to women from my country, thailand, korea and japan, where English is not the first language, the women tend to be more feminine and less bitchy.

Having said that, the women who were educated in an english medium school (I.e international school) are entitled as fuck.

Conclusion: women from countries where english is the first language have somehow been affected by feminism, regardless of geographical proximity to the Anglosphere.

This is ironic; no not ironic, oxymoron, because I mentioned earlier that I wanted to master the mechanics of the English language.

[Agreddor]

@hardy coulnt agree more with regard to character based languages. I've never been able to master mandarin despite being chinese myself and growing up in a rather chinese environment.

German would be a good language to pickup due to its similarities to English as well.

[RichieP]

Would rather get "conversational" e.g. B2 level or so - in as many as I can. Don't care about technical discussions or reading newspapers, but being able to hang out, joke and chat with friends - yeah. I'd be real happy with five-six languages at that level.

[godfather dust]

I want to learn Portugeuse becuase I live here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framingham,_Massachusetts
6.6% Brazilian and Brazilians are arguably the hottest women on the planet.