[Travesty]

Funny a guy selling overcoming Looks-Money-Status used money to buy status with a good looking girl.



I'm sure he's good at game, but that's a pile of dogshit he's now covered in.

Stick with your principles and have integrity if you are actively trying to part men from their $.

And as far as "it was a one time thing 2 years ago!"

Yeah just like the girl tells her boyfriend when she cheats on him lulz.

[Tony_Flame]

Hi guys,
I'm glad that Tom finaly responded to this and showed us his point of view.
The whole thing is a HUGE dissapointment. The pick up community consists of a lot of scammers and therefore credibility/ authencity is very important for an instructor/ company... AND very good quality content. Now I have to say that his response is understandable, but he also didn't had another option.... after he lied to Andy first and the evidence was clear. In my opinion he can still retain some kind of reputation and respect by putting out good quality content. He did that in the past and his material seems to go hand in hand with Krauser's stuff (which seems to be a VER CLEVER dude).

When it comes to Tom Torero there is still one main concern which wasn't adressed here but is pretty obvious when you think about it. I have reasonable doubts that his type of game works on local western girls... for me it seems that it's tailored to tourist girls and feminine girls in EE countries. Now from my experience these type of girls are more receptive to game and meeting strangers, I mean they move/or visit a new city (London) to meet new people. If he/you would use his type of game for example on local english hotties with very high self-esteem in an average city I doubt it would work effecively. However I won't discredit that there's still a lot of elements in their game which are universally good.
But Roosh's Indirect Game on the other hand seems to be very universal and even secured for 'tough' environments like Washington, where girls probably aren't that responsive to 'game'. It could be more profitable to learn his type of game in the long term.

[Deluge]

If this guy's confirmed to have faked one video in the past, you've got to wonder how many more were also faked.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(12-13-2014 12:30 AM)Tony_Flame Wrote:  

...

When it comes to Tom Torero there is still one main concern which wasn't adressed here but is pretty obvious when you think about it. I have reasonable doubts that his type of game works on local western girls... for me it seems that it's tailored to tourist girls and feminine girls in EE countries. Now from my experience these type of girls are more receptive to game and meeting strangers, I mean they move/or visit a new city (London) to meet new people. If he/you would use his type of game for example on local english hotties with very high self-esteem in an average city I doubt it would work effecively. However I won't discredit that there's still a lot of elements in their game which are universally good.
But Roosh's Indirect Game on the other hand seems to be very universal and even secured for 'tough' environments like Washington, where girls probably aren't that responsive to 'game'. It could be more profitable to learn his type of game in the long term.

Nah - Daygame is different to Nightgame despite RSD's former claims to the contrary. The Daygame.com guys did plenty of bootcamps in different Western countries with a large local population of girls versus the high number of tourists in London.

I travel around quite a lot in Europe and frankly observed a higher degree of openness to Game in general in the West - sluttiness is on the rise and I see more IOIs, approach openness than years ago. London is a bit convoluted for a number of reasons. But if you go out and do Game in Oslo, Vienna, Munich, Berlin, Paris, then you find that the Daygame model works perfectly well in those cities. There isn't even a need to go indirect. Only in cities where girls are approached non-stop by foreigners and are on the defensive, then you have to switch lanes.

Besides - it seems that many men have some kind of strange PUA mindset with them. It is a toolset that should not deviate too much from your real personality. In the end it is part of you and is very basic and congruent with your being. You approach a girl - boy meets girl - very naturally regardless whether it is in South Africa, Singapore or Nebraska.

The extreme forms of vibe and energy you need more exclusively in Western-style Clubgame. The same girl in NYC responds very well to your seemingly tame Daygame approach during business hours.

[trainwreck]

Just a bit more info:
Those daygame.com clowns are now in the same city as me. I've had 2 girls message me on seperate occasions how they noticed them roaming outside of a restaurant and talking to each girl walking by... on top of it all, these girls now talk about the approaches in their whatsapp groups and "warned" each other.. if you ask me, they should've picked a bigger city, lmao.

I've seen Yad on dates with 4 girls (sounds great) but they all seemed bored. The dude needs to buy some fitting pants, as anyone walking into the bar could see his asscrack.

Moral of the story: We sometimes hype these gurus up to be able to bang any girl in the world, but in the end.. it's just a shotgun approach. I also prefer Roosh's daygame model a lot more, since it "burns down" the city a ton less. People here in Eastern Europe are extremely suspicious about strangers talking them up... coffee shop and store game is a 10x more effective method than cold approaching in the middle of the road, I found.

(12-11-2014 07:21 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

Yad doesnt even approach girls, the guy is a loser playing that whole 'gay friend' persona.

Funny you mention that, because one of the chicks was saying exactly the same - she suspected him to be gay due to overly complementing her style.

[Kieran]

(12-13-2014 12:30 AM)Tony_Flame Wrote:  

Hi guys,
I'm glad that Tom finaly responded to this and showed us his point of view.
The whole thing is a HUGE dissapointment. The pick up community consists of a lot of scammers and therefore credibility/ authencity is very important for an instructor/ company... AND very good quality content. Now I have to say that his response is understandable, but he also didn't had another option.... after he lied to Andy first and the evidence was clear. In my opinion he can still retain some kind of reputation and respect by putting out good quality content. He did that in the past and his material seems to go hand in hand with Krauser's stuff (which seems to be a VER CLEVER dude).

When it comes to Tom Torero there is still one main concern which wasn't adressed here but is pretty obvious when you think about it. I have reasonable doubts that his type of game works on local western girls... for me it seems that it's tailored to tourist girls and feminine girls in EE countries. Now from my experience these type of girls are more receptive to game and meeting strangers, I mean they move/or visit a new city (London) to meet new people. If he/you would use his type of game for example on local english hotties with very high self-esteem in an average city I doubt it would work effecively. However I won't discredit that there's still a lot of elements in their game which are universally good.
But Roosh's Indirect Game on the other hand seems to be very universal and even secured for 'tough' environments like Washington, where girls probably aren't that responsive to 'game'. It could be more profitable to learn his type of game in the long term.

I'd be interested to see whether they have a lot of success with native speakers too, as I know that for me at least, I have a much easier time with foreign women than English women. For me, I think that at times, I still have some awkwardness that is easier for a native speaker to detect (I'm not saying this is the case for the Tom etc., but it would still be good to see whether there is any difference in how they come at top tier native speakers, as opposed to foreign women).

[WanderingSoul]

I would literally have to watch Yad stick his dick inside of a girl to believe he gets laid.

[Phoenix]

(12-14-2014 12:38 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

I would literally have to watch Yad stick his dick inside of a girl to believe he gets laid.

Wouldn't be convincing enough for me. I would have to have been trailing him from the minute he met her as well, to know she wasn't a hooker and she wasn't under duress or under the influence of something.

[worldtraveler3]

This is hilarious.roaming outside the restaurants...
Better to be in a bigger town definitely.

[Pinocchio]

i've approached with yad before, he does come across a little camp but hes not gay and i got no doubt he's banging decent girls. the london daygame model is effective although trainwreck is right, it does 'burn up' areas quickly.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(12-14-2014 01:44 PM)Pinocchio Wrote:  

i've approached with yad before, he does come across a little camp but hes not gay and i got no doubt he's banging decent girls. the london daygame model is effective although trainwreck is right, it does 'burn up' areas quickly.

The problem is not with the accomplished Daygamers. The wannabe guys and those learning it are poisoning the well. The true masters can do it in a way that a girl does not even realize what is happening.

I once approached a girl in Warsaw roughly 2 minutes after she rejected another pro PUA who moved too fast to Mystery-style palm-reading. I opened more indirect, but she had still no idea. Though after 30 minutes of the insta-date, she asked me whether I was a Player. When I told her weeks later that the entire approach was calculated from A to Z along certain Game guidelines she did not even believe me, because it looked so natural - "it just happened".

But there aren't that many in Warsaw anyway, since most guys can get laid the old-fashioned and even Blue Pill way - plus the demographics are beneficial for men. So there is not much reason for men to learn Game here except for those who want to raise the bar or some who are on the bottom rung of the sexual market matrix. Albeit it is changing for the new generation here too.

Though I've heard that it can get obnoxious on Oxford street, where a girl is opened 3 times in 10 minutes - 2 out of 3 by men who are not doing it very well (yet). 80%+ of those have not done a decent bootcamp or read anything worthwhile - their entire knowledge stems from more or less good Youtube videos, which is of course idiotic. With the current advanced excellent knowledge available there is no reason for men to burn through hundreds or thousands of sets without much progress.

[Roosh]

I think this is the video in question:

I don't buy Tom's excuse that he did it for "egoism". His ego couldn't have possibly been satisfied kissing an actress. Fake in-fields are done to sell products so he did this to increase his income. Putting your reputation on the line for money is a devil's bargain that never works in the end. Nonetheless, I'm sure Tom learned his lesson from this and will continue to have support from his fans. My only advice to him is come clean about any other fakes because the pua haters will be digging through his videos for more.

[monster]

So what did he do? Just pay her to stand there and engage in a conversation?

The only reason he would do this is because he can't get any other girl to stop and talk and they all run away.

Game Fail.

[DarkTriad]

(12-14-2014 10:33 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I think this is the video in question:

I don't buy Tom's excuse that he did it for "egoism". His ego couldn't have possibly been satisfied kissing an actress. Fake in-fields are done to sell products so he did this to increase his income. Putting your reputation on the line for money is a devil's bargain that never works in the end. Nonetheless, I'm sure Tom learned his lesson from this and will continue to have support from his fans. My only advice to him is come clean about any other fakes because the pua haters will be digging through his videos for more.

I'm sure money was involved, but he probably also wanted the ego-stroke of acclaim from his male peers.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(12-14-2014 11:31 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

I'm sure money was involved, but he probably also wanted the ego-stroke of acclaim from his male peers.

All men who invest into the pick-up mindset also seek the acclaim of their peers. That is in a way natural for a man. He had to learn the hard way that you cannot let that inner beast take control of you.

[brianmark]

(12-15-2014 01:35 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(12-14-2014 11:31 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

I'm sure money was involved, but he probably also wanted the ego-stroke of acclaim from his male peers.

All men who invest into the pick-up mindset also seek the acclaim of their peers. That is in a way natural for a man. He had to learn the hard way that you cannot let that inner beast take control of you.

I hope this is not the video. This is nothing. At least he could have paid for a good looking girl for a good kiss that you can see.

Has anyone read his "Torero Travels" book? Is it any good? How does it compare to other travel books by Roosh, Naughty Nomad, or Neil Skywalker?

[Pinocchio]

It's a good read, I enjoyed it.

[eradicator]

(12-14-2014 11:31 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

I'm sure money was involved, but he probably also wanted the ego-stroke of acclaim from his male peers.

Yeah, she looks fat. Maybe he intentionally picked a fat girl actress because if he used a hot chick, there would be too many people saying "fake!"

[YoungBlood]

Video interview with the Actress:
http://daygame.com/cafe/index.html?topic=6251.0

I didn't get a chance to see it (since I just looked at the DayGame forums and it is now password locked) but according to Andy(he's the last post on the thread), the cameraman was also in on it and was very close to Tom but was never hired by DayGame.

This raises a lot of questions, knowing that there's probably some small circle of coaches or teachers faking these videos to unsuspecting men.

[Roosh]

The person who filmed the fake scene knew it was fake, and seems to have a connection with Tom.

Quote:

After speaking with lots of people I have discovered the identity of the cameraman, and yes, he did know about the whole thing. It's not someone who works (or has ever worked) with Daygame.com, but one of Tom's friends

[bojangles]

Tom removed his apology.