[Veloce]

(12-10-2014 05:32 PM)Hades Wrote:  

You should improve quickly at the compound lifts if you haven't been doing them already.

Just make sure to deadlift at least once a week (and more than 5 reps, this is not Starting Strength) and bench twice a week, hitting different rep ranges.

This is key.

Whatever program you do Krusyos, just make it's based on compound lifts. I think you need to start over here. Pick a program that doesn't consist much more than:

Squat
Deadlift
Bench
Military Press
Pendlay Row

Start here. Get in the habit of progressive loading (meaning adding weight every week)

What you should find, is that you start having some extra fuel after your compound lifts, and also on your rest days. This is where you add in some high rep dumbell work. If you stick to the compounds, it's unlikely you're going to build your arms very much (rows alone will give you something to work with)

So for instance, on your chest day, start out on bench or incline bench and go heavy, as heavy as you can for 5x5. Move to another exercise, maybe overhead press. After that, hit your pecs hard again with flat dumbell press, 5 sets of 10. You're going to go lighter here for more reps. If you barbell bench 135 5x5, you might dumbell bench a pair of 50s 5x10. Your upper chest is going to be good and sore now, but go finish them off with some machine flies, like 3x8.

The next day, your chest is going to feel torn up. Eat protein, lots of it, and either rest that day (which means do some HIIT) or drag your ass back to the gym and work a different muscle group.

[TheFinalEpic]

(12-10-2014 08:08 PM)Veloce Wrote:  

(12-10-2014 05:32 PM)Hades Wrote:  

You should improve quickly at the compound lifts if you haven't been doing them already.

Just make sure to deadlift at least once a week (and more than 5 reps, this is not Starting Strength) and bench twice a week, hitting different rep ranges.

This is key.

Whatever program you do Krusyos, just make it's based on compound lifts. I think you need to start over here. Pick a program that doesn't consist much more than:

Squat
Deadlift
Bench
Military Press
Pendlay Row

Start here. Get in the habit of progressive loading (meaning adding weight every week)

What you should find, is that you start having some extra fuel after your compound lifts, and also on your rest days. This is where you add in some high rep dumbell work. If you stick to the compounds, it's unlikely you're going to build your arms very much (rows alone will give you something to work with)

So for instance, on your chest day, start out on bench or incline bench and go heavy, as heavy as you can for 5x5. Move to another exercise, maybe overhead press. After that, hit your pecs hard again with flat dumbell press, 5 sets of 10. You're going to go lighter here for more reps. If you barbell bench 135 5x5, you might dumbell bench a pair of 50s 5x10. Your upper chest is going to be good and sore now, but go finish them off with some machine flies, like 3x8.

The next day, your chest is going to feel torn up. Eat protein, lots of it, and either rest that day (which means do some HIIT) or drag your ass back to the gym and work a different muscle group.

Only thing I'd add is a vertical pull (chin up variation) and you're set, you can actually make ridiculous gains sticking to those basics.

[Krusyos]

So it sounds like I need to start hammering away those compounds. Per Victor Pride's advice, I'm trying to do squats 3 times a week.

I did military press last night, along with some incline. I ended up with the barbell on my chest after the last rep, so I know I must be lifting heavy enough. Today I'll do some Pendlay rows, squats, concentration curls, and decline situps. As usual, pushups right as I roll out of bed and before I go to bed. I also do 150 unweighted twists each day. That was a habit I picked up from that 12 Week Program I did.

I'll start replacing some of my carbs with beef jerky as well. Still maintain the caloric deficit since I'm cutting... but want to make sure I can get some kind of muscular development.

[Veloce]

(12-11-2014 08:21 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

So it sounds like I need to start hammering away those compounds. Per Victor Pride's advice, I'm trying to do squats 3 times a week.

I did military press last night, along with some incline. I ended up with the barbell on my chest after the last rep, so I know I must be lifting heavy enough. Today I'll do some Pendlay rows, squats, concentration curls, and decline situps. As usual, pushups right as I roll out of bed and before I go to bed. I also do 150 unweighted twists each day. That was a habit I picked up from that 12 Week Program I did.

I'll start replacing some of my carbs with beef jerky as well. Still maintain the caloric deficit since I'm cutting... but want to make sure I can get some kind of muscular development.

OHP is one of those exercises I see most guys doing wrong and wrecking their shoulders.

This and Mehdi's video on Over Head Press are important to watch. The rep starts at your collarbone. There's no leg drive (that's a push press as Matt states)

I searched quite a few youtube videos and its crazy how many of them are showing bad form...I would say your wrists should DEFINITELY be behind your elbows, as this will prevent shoulder injuries while doing the OHP. Don't do a seated press. Each rep starts at the collarbone and ends with the bar in a locked position behind your head with your arms locked. 99% of dudes you see in the gym are doing it wrong.

If you do it right, you should feel some strain on your abs and lower back as they work to stabilize your body. Be very aware of your center of gravity. Done correctly, the overhead press is fucking gold for your shoulders and traps, and will greatly improve your posture as well.

[civpro]

(12-11-2014 08:21 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

I'll start replacing some of my carbs with beef jerky as well. Still maintain the caloric deficit since I'm cutting... but want to make sure I can get some kind of muscular development.

You will not. I tlod you that but you are not listening.

[Bushido]

^Agree. If you are gonna cut then concentrate on cutting. One thing at a time.

[Krusyos]

(12-11-2014 12:14 PM)civpro Wrote:  

(12-11-2014 08:21 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

I'll start replacing some of my carbs with beef jerky as well. Still maintain the caloric deficit since I'm cutting... but want to make sure I can get some kind of muscular development.

You will not. I tlod you that but you are not listening.

Then am I just better off saving time and doing cardio instead of weights? I don't want to spend hours in the gym for it all to go to shit.

[TheFinalEpic]

(12-11-2014 01:50 PM)Krusyos Wrote:  

(12-11-2014 12:14 PM)civpro Wrote:  

(12-11-2014 08:21 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

I'll start replacing some of my carbs with beef jerky as well. Still maintain the caloric deficit since I'm cutting... but want to make sure I can get some kind of muscular development.

You will not. I tlod you that but you are not listening.

Then am I just better off saving time and doing cardio instead of weights? I don't want to spend hours in the gym for it all to go to shit.

Lift weights with intensity = cardio. Time in the gym is never wasted if you're actually working.

[civpro]

(12-11-2014 01:50 PM)Krusyos Wrote:  

(12-11-2014 12:14 PM)civpro Wrote:  

(12-11-2014 08:21 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

I'll start replacing some of my carbs with beef jerky as well. Still maintain the caloric deficit since I'm cutting... but want to make sure I can get some kind of muscular development.

You will not. I tlod you that but you are not listening.

Then am I just better off saving time and doing cardio instead of weights? I don't want to spend hours in the gym for it all to go to shit.

No no keep lifting. When you are cutting your job is to lift in order to MAINTAIN whatever you got. That will make it so that your caloric deficit will burn away fat and not muscle. Again it IS still possible to make SOME gains on a deficit (this is dependent on where you are at in your training, genetics, and the size of the deficit), but mostly the point of lifting during a diet is to give the body the signal to hold on to your muscle. Lifting during a cut is just as important as during a bulk.

However for the simple act of maintaining, you do not need a complicated routine. You don't need a lot of volume and a lot of frequency. Dial that down. Your body is not anabolic so what's the point of that extra work? It is a waste of time. What you do need for that maintenance though is intensity. You need that one heavy set ("work set") where you push your strength to the limit. So for a cut what's needed is a minimalistic high-intensity routine. A high intensity, low volume, moderate frequency routine.

In this thread and out there on the internet there is an inundation of information. In reality there is just a few basics when it comes to these things.

Build Muscle = Caloric Surplus + Increase Strength + Adequate Protein + Adequate Rest

Lose Fat = Caloric Deficit + Maintain Strength + Adequate Protein + Adequate Rest

Now read these two articles:

http://revolutionarylifestyledesign.com/...ive-guide/

http://revolutionarylifestyledesign.com/...g-routine/

And watch these two videos from a smart ugly man which mirror the articles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5wHFpvwO6o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm-mYQ7a3xM


P.S. I think you shouldn't cut too long and hard. It won't go as well as you think because you are weak and don't have a good base. It is like chiseling a pebble. Get to a bodyfat level you're just OK with and then switch to a long slow bulk and make gains. You are very young and have all the time and testosterone in the world. I'm jealous, I wish I could be young again.

[Krusyos]

(12-11-2014 02:37 PM)civpro Wrote:  

(12-11-2014 01:50 PM)Krusyos Wrote:  

(12-11-2014 12:14 PM)civpro Wrote:  

(12-11-2014 08:21 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

I'll start replacing some of my carbs with beef jerky as well. Still maintain the caloric deficit since I'm cutting... but want to make sure I can get some kind of muscular development.

You will not. I tlod you that but you are not listening.

Then am I just better off saving time and doing cardio instead of weights? I don't want to spend hours in the gym for it all to go to shit.

No no keep lifting. When you are cutting your job is to lift in order to MAINTAIN whatever you got. That will make it so that your caloric deficit will burn away fat and not muscle. Again it IS still possible to make SOME gains on a deficit (this is dependent on where you are at in your training, genetics, and the size of the deficit), but mostly the point of lifting during a diet is to give the body the signal to hold on to your muscle. Lifting during a cut is just as important as during a bulk.

However for the simple act of maintaining, you do not need a complicated routine. You don't need a lot of volume and a lot of frequency. Dial that down. Your body is not anabolic so what's the point of that extra work? It is a waste of time. What you do need for that maintenance though is intensity. You need that one heavy set ("work set") where you push your strength to the limit. So for a cut what's needed is a minimalistic high-intensity routine. A high intensity, low volume, moderate frequency routine.

In this thread and out there on the internet there is an inundation of information. In reality there is just a few basics when it comes to these things.

Build Muscle = Caloric Surplus + Increase Strength + Adequate Protein + Adequate Rest

Lose Fat = Caloric Deficit + Maintain Strength + Adequate Protein + Adequate Rest

Now read these two articles:

http://revolutionarylifestyledesign.com/...ive-guide/

http://revolutionarylifestyledesign.com/...g-routine/

And watch these two videos from a smart ugly man which mirror the articles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5wHFpvwO6o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm-mYQ7a3xM


P.S. I think you shouldn't cut too long and hard. It won't go as well as you think because you are weak and don't have a good base. It is like chiseling a pebble. Get to a bodyfat level you're just OK with and then switch to a long slow bulk and make gains. You are very young and have all the time and testosterone in the world. I'm jealous, I wish I could be young again.

Thanks for this. I'm just gonna keep cutting till I no longer have a big gut and then start bulking. I estimate a month to a month and half left of cutting (I'm gonna start eating clean again once I get to the store in a few days). Definitely gonna continue with the compound lifts... I'm gonna try to do 2 deadlifts a week, 3 squats, 2 presses.

Also, I've been using smith machine for my squats since I don't have a spotter. Is this ok?

[civpro]

(12-11-2014 08:21 PM)Krusyos Wrote:  

Also, I've been using smith machine for my squats since I don't have a spotter. Is this ok?

Don't you have a squat rack in your gym? Use that, You don't need a spotter, the safety bars will save you

[Krusyos]

(12-12-2014 01:36 AM)civpro Wrote:  

(12-11-2014 08:21 PM)Krusyos Wrote:  

Also, I've been using smith machine for my squats since I don't have a spotter. Is this ok?

Don't you have a squat rack in your gym? Use that, You don't need a spotter, the safety bars will save you

I do. I just saw some threads on BB.com which said it's suicidal to do squats without a spotter. I don't know why I listen to the guys on that site, it's more confusing than anything else. Everyone has their own philosophy which they believe is 100% right and any deviation will leave you a fatass.

[RestinPeace]

(12-09-2014 11:40 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  

Your strength is relative to your LBM (Lean Body Mass), not your overall mass. You can weight a lot of weight and still be weak.

Getting stronger is a slow process, and it will be slower if you are not doing things correctly, like lifting with bad form, or lifting too frequently. You say you lift 6 days a week, that seems like too much, you don't even leave days in between to recover and you are doing IF and on a caloric deficit, you cannot really expect to grow stronger like this.

This is false... there is some correlation between LBM and strenght but they dont go in hand... There are a lot of very strong people with much lighter LBM than some bodybuilders who work out on muscle contraction and higher reps... which is the science of building muscles...

[RestinPeace]

(12-12-2014 08:57 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

(12-12-2014 01:36 AM)civpro Wrote:  

(12-11-2014 08:21 PM)Krusyos Wrote:  

Also, I've been using smith machine for my squats since I don't have a spotter. Is this ok?

Don't you have a squat rack in your gym? Use that, You don't need a spotter, the safety bars will save you

I do. I just saw some threads on BB.com which said it's suicidal to do squats without a spotter. I don't know why I listen to the guys on that site, it's more confusing than anything else. Everyone has their own philosophy which they believe is 100% right and any deviation will leave you a fatass.

You should quite reading thing from forums in internet, better check videos of professional trainers which actually give you good tips... I recommend you checking the youtube channel of Elliot Hulse. the average age in Forumbodybuilding is between 17-21... I wouldnt expect much from a bunch insecure kids.. less so considering most hail from the anglosphere.. and they are ridiculously insecure, jealous and competitive..No wonder anglo women ended up being that uncharming....

[Veloce]

(12-12-2014 08:57 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

(12-12-2014 01:36 AM)civpro Wrote:  

(12-11-2014 08:21 PM)Krusyos Wrote:  

Also, I've been using smith machine for my squats since I don't have a spotter. Is this ok?

Don't you have a squat rack in your gym? Use that, You don't need a spotter, the safety bars will save you

I do. I just saw some threads on BB.com which said it's suicidal to do squats without a spotter. I don't know why I listen to the guys on that site, it's more confusing than anything else. Everyone has their own philosophy which they believe is 100% right and any deviation will leave you a fatass.

BB.com is actually a fantastic site, I'm not sure who you've been listening to saying not to squat without a spotter. Worry about a spotter when you're squatting over 2x your bodyweight.

Otherwise, do NOT use a smith. Get a pair of chuck taylors until you feel like you're going to take this shit seriously, and then consider getting a pair of squat shoes (they're expensive)

Watch and re-watch Johnny Candito's squat clips, and then film yourself and compare.

[alexdagr81]

Unless you have a severe genetic disorder, I doubt you can blame your genetics for just being plain weak.

[Avon Barksdale]

(12-11-2014 12:12 PM)Veloce Wrote:  

(12-11-2014 08:21 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

So it sounds like I need to start hammering away those compounds. Per Victor Pride's advice, I'm trying to do squats 3 times a week.

I did military press last night, along with some incline. I ended up with the barbell on my chest after the last rep, so I know I must be lifting heavy enough. Today I'll do some Pendlay rows, squats, concentration curls, and decline situps. As usual, pushups right as I roll out of bed and before I go to bed. I also do 150 unweighted twists each day. That was a habit I picked up from that 12 Week Program I did.

I'll start replacing some of my carbs with beef jerky as well. Still maintain the caloric deficit since I'm cutting... but want to make sure I can get some kind of muscular development.

OHP is one of those exercises I see most guys doing wrong and wrecking their shoulders.

This and Mehdi's video on Over Head Press are important to watch. The rep starts at your collarbone. There's no leg drive (that's a push press as Matt states)

I searched quite a few youtube videos and its crazy how many of them are showing bad form...I would say your wrists should DEFINITELY be behind your elbows, as this will prevent shoulder injuries while doing the OHP. Don't do a seated press. Each rep starts at the collarbone and ends with the bar in a locked position behind your head with your arms locked. 99% of dudes you see in the gym are doing it wrong.

If you do it right, you should feel some strain on your abs and lower back as they work to stabilize your body. Be very aware of your center of gravity. Done correctly, the overhead press is fucking gold for your shoulders and traps, and will greatly improve your posture as well.

Thanks for this Veloce, My standing press is pretty shitty

[FretDancer]

(12-12-2014 03:46 PM)RestinPeace Wrote:  

(12-09-2014 11:40 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  

Your strength is relative to your LBM (Lean Body Mass), not your overall mass. You can weight a lot of weight and still be weak.

Getting stronger is a slow process, and it will be slower if you are not doing things correctly, like lifting with bad form, or lifting too frequently. You say you lift 6 days a week, that seems like too much, you don't even leave days in between to recover and you are doing IF and on a caloric deficit, you cannot really expect to grow stronger like this.

This is false... there is some correlation between LBM and strenght but they dont go in hand... There are a lot of very strong people with much lighter LBM than some bodybuilders who work out on muscle contraction and higher reps... which is the science of building muscles...

Yes, and you are still saying basically what I said.

I should have pointed out that this only applies if you are an experienced lifter. Obviously skinny scrawny dudes with low LBM don't really fit this category.

If your LBM is considered "low" to the average LBM that is usually considered "high", yet you can lift more than your own body weight in at least the basic 3 compound movements, this is means you are a pretty strong fellow by basic standards.

Also strength is not just about lifting heavy weight (although this is for sure the way to develop it). High repetitions can also go in here provided you are not lifting light weight.

[Beyond Borders]

It's interesting that it took you a year to find out your weights were low. Maybe you should try working out with a partner. Not only would this give an idea what others are doing, but it will inspire you and might push you to go further. Births a bit of friendly, subconscious competition.

Even better if you train with guys who are slightly further along than you. Mirroring what other people do is one of our best strategies for learning and will take you where you want to be much faster than trying to figure it all out alone.

If you're new to working out, for instance, and don't know what you're doing, it's easy to get caught up in doing the same weight every time you work out rather than pushing yourself to progress. Obviously, that won't get you far.

Also, have you considered hiring a personal trainer for a while? Even if you can't afford to do this all the time, a session a month or every two weeks could set you straight and keep you moving in the right direction.

[Chaos]

Good video about the overhead press.
Isn't this basically the same function and shoulder movement like the behind the neck press?

I do tons of those.

[Hades]

(12-14-2014 12:55 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

Good video about the overhead press.
Isn't this basically the same function and shoulder movement like the behind the neck press?

I do tons of those.

Behind the neck press is an underutilized but essential lift. For most trainees it is strength and mobility wrapped into one movement.

Everybody should train the military press and the behind the neck press in a 1:1 format (one military press session for every BTN session). When done properly they help open up the shoulder girdle more than nearly any lift.

The snatch grip behind the neck strict press is particularly useful.

Any behind the neck pressing variation is not an ego lift. I would not expect to do much more than 33-45% of your regular bench press 1RM starting out.

[polymath]

If you're not disappointed in your progress at times, you won't be motivated to drop a gear and go harder.

The question is whether you keep it moving or choose to quit. If you were to just go in every day and do the following rotation with 5x5 on everything, while eating lots of clean food with 1 g protein per lb of body mass, you would be very likely to get stronger even if you don't do any auxiliary lifts at all.

day 1 barbell row
day 2 squat
day 3 bench
day 4 deadlift
day 5 off

[Rikardo]

what is your program how you train your bench press for example and deadlift ??? If you do 30 reps with 50lbs then you wont ever have big 1 rep max. If you want big BP then 70-80% of your training session do bench press and not some isolation BS.
I'm 6.3 220lbs your numbers were almost same when I started to train without any experience so yes these are weak after 1 year training. But all depends how you train.
Try this for BP for example:

10 reps 10 sets 90sec pause 55% of 1RM increase weight decrease reps to 8 increase pause to say 2 min then 6 reps 10 sets more weight more rest then 4 reps 10 sets even more rest between sets now at lest 3.5 min then 3 reps 10 sets even more weight 4 min rest again more weight 3 reps 10 sets now 5 min rest again more weight 1-2 reps very heavy 10 sets 5 min pause between sets. And then PR and I'm sure you will smash your PR big time

[Veloce]

(12-15-2014 02:51 PM)Rikardo Wrote:  

10 reps 10 sets 90sec pause 55% of 1RM increase weight decrease reps to 8 increase pause to say 2 min then 6 reps 10 sets more weight more rest then 4 reps 10 sets even more rest between sets now at lest 3.5 min then 3 reps 10 sets even more weight 4 min rest again more weight 3 reps 10 sets now 5 min rest again more weight 1-2 reps very heavy 10 sets 5 min pause between sets. And then PR and I'm sure you will smash your PR big time

[Hades]

(12-15-2014 02:51 PM)Rikardo Wrote:  

what is your program how you train your bench press for example and deadlift ??? If you do 30 reps with 50lbs then you wont ever have big 1 rep max. If you want big BP then 70-80% of your training session do bench press and not some isolation BS.
I'm 6.3 220lbs your numbers were almost same when I started to train without any experience so yes these are weak after 1 year training. But all depends how you train.
Try this for BP for example:

10 reps 10 sets 90sec pause 55% of 1RM increase weight decrease reps to 8 increase pause to say 2 min then 6 reps 10 sets more weight more rest then 4 reps 10 sets even more rest between sets now at lest 3.5 min then 3 reps 10 sets even more weight 4 min rest again more weight 3 reps 10 sets now 5 min rest again more weight 1-2 reps very heavy 10 sets 5 min pause between sets. And then PR and I'm sure you will smash your PR big time

That looks sort of like a cross between german volume training and escalating density. I don't doubt it works but if you want a lift to grow and don't want to have to get an associates in math just smash it for ten to twenty sets of five with as much rest as you need.