[andy]

Short story: I've never done weights before, but I'm not a fat-ass. I weigh in at 154 lbs, 6'3", I'm tall, skinny, with some tone. I do my fair share of walking, since I live by the city, I use public transit, and pretty much walk everywhere, and also bike too (more so in the summer, usually for a good 30-45 minutes). I got one of the basic machines, just to get started with something basic, I just want to know if I'm on the right track here. I have a high metabolism, so I only do 14 minutes everyday, after eating a good meal, and always following with water. Eventually, after I build up some stamina, I do want to join a local gym, after gradually acclimating my body. Thoughts?

[redbeard]

6'3"

154 lbs

Go eat some steaks and then come back.

[The Beast1]

(12-09-2014 12:59 PM)andy Wrote:  

Short story: I've never done weights before, but I'm not a fat-ass. I weigh in at 154 lbs, 6'3", I'm tall, skinny, with some tone. I do my fair share of walking, since I live by the city, I use public transit, and pretty much walk everywhere, and also bike too (more so in the summer, usually for a good 30-45 minutes). I got one of the basic machines, just to get started with something basic, I just want to know if I'm on the right track here. I have a high metabolism, so I only do 14 minutes everyday, after eating a good meal, and always following with water. Eventually, after I build up some stamina, I do want to join a local gym, after gradually acclimating my body. Thoughts?

Ugh not on the right track at all. If you can, return the Bowflex and get your money back. Join a gym first, learn the muscle, mind connection using barbells and dumbells FIRST before using any machine.

Second, unless you're going for the tall, skinny, and lanky guy look (trust me girls don't find this attractive) then continue with your cardio. It is destroying what little muscle you have and is probably making you skinny fat.

Cut it down to 5 minutes of sprinting or biking after you're done working out. During the bulking season, I'd stop doing it altogether but that's me.

Next, develop a compound lift routine that hits every muscle in your body. I modified this http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/wotw46.htm and followed it for about a year with good results. I started at 6ft 150lbs (skinnyfat). Now i'm around 188 lbs at 14% bodyfat.

Finally, for diet start eating. You're skinny so do a see food diet (see food, eat it). Eat 4+ meals a day. Get a casein protein shake and use whole milk with it. Drink this right before bed. Learn how food affects your strength training performance and how clean bulking versus dirty bulking makes you feel.

When I first started, I would eat a McDonald's double cheeseburger. It hit all of my macros for the day and I love McDs. The problem is, the more you lift, the more shitty quality food makes you sick. After a certain amount of time your body will hate you when you eat junk food.

Above all start eating more food, cut down on the cardio, use barbells/dumbbbells, and get acquainted with proper form on all of the compound lifts.

[jimukr104]

Quote:

I started at 6ft 150lbs (skinnyfat). Now i'm around 188 lbs at 14% bodyfat.

At 19 I was 140 lbs at 6ft...natural slim ectomorph. My regular weight now is between 173-176 lbs at 13%. I wish I could get over 180 at 13% but anytime I go over 176 it starts making my waist bloated and my max of 184 I looked worst then I do at 173. So for each of us our best is different weight. I probably look more buff at 165 even.

At over 40 EATING ALOT wont work lol.

My recommendation for him is buy a bench with a squat rack, pull up/dip bar and get to work.

His history shows he has very little interest in going to long workouts at the gym. And from my observation MAJORITY of time in gyms are waiting around and guys lose motivation and stop going. I went my 1st year 5 times a week when I was 19 then lost motivation and didn't put my feet back in one for years. At his height he won't show so easily and I suspect he will lose momentum in the long run.

Once I got the equip at home...I have kept steady for the longest I ever did because to me it is FOR ME and not a chore or to compare with others, etc.

I am the better now at 42 then I ever was..except for lacking 6 pack witch at my age would screw up my eating/diet to get one and probably loser muscle as well.

[The Beast1]

(12-09-2014 02:38 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Quote:

I started at 6ft 150lbs (skinnyfat). Now i'm around 188 lbs at 14% bodyfat.

At 19 I was 140 lbs at 6ft...natural slim ectomorph. My regular weight now is between 173-176 lbs at 13%. I wish I could get over 180 at 13% but anytime I go over 176 it starts making my waist bloated and my max of 184 I looked worst then I do at 173. So for each of us our best is different weight. I probably look more buff at 165 even.

Cool story, but that doesn't help the OP.

(12-09-2014 02:38 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

At over 40 EATING ALOT wont work lol.

Then go to myfitnesspal.com and compute out the values. He should be eating at least a 1lbs of protein per body weight. Dial in the diet for mass gains and go there. He needs to figure out his diet. Telling an ectomorph to EAT is the easiest way to gain weight especially if he has never done so before.

(12-09-2014 02:38 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

My recommendation for him is buy a bench with a squat rack, pull up/dip bar and get to work.

His history shows he has very little interest in going to long workouts at the gym. And from my observation MAJORITY of time in gyms are waiting around and guys lose motivation and stop going. I went my 1st year 5 times a week when I was 19 then lost motivation and didn't put my feet back in one for years. At his height he won't show so easily and I suspect he will lose momentum in the long run.

That's decent advise for someone who has a background in personal fitness. If you've never lifted any weights before, getting gear and doing it at home is a terrible way to start. Watching internet videos for form is alright if you have developed the mind/muscle connection but seeing as he has never lifted he's at the very least going to lose gym momentum or worse get an injury from improper form.

Secondly, personal fitness is a lifestyle choice. The benefits of a gym give you people who can not only spot you, but offer tips on form as well as diet. It took me three solid years of lifting before I started seeing noticeable body type improvements. I used to screw around on machines which didn't help me gain any mass at all. In fact I plateau'd very easily. Once I started working different body groups at a time was when I started putting on mass.

Finally, get over the gym phobia. No one there is "showing" off or posturing for the sake of posturing. If you're waiting around for gym equipment then you're going to the gym at the wrong time or it is too small. Go to bed early and get up early. Hit that gym at 7:30am. Amateur hour is between the hours of 12pm-1pm and anytime after 5pm. The real gym nuts go to the gym before the 8am morning rush. Those are the guys who will give you the best lifting advise.

If you're not seeing gains then change what you are doing.

If you really want it, you'll put in the time to do it. From the anecdotal experience of two older people I've helped get into some gym routine (35+) they eventually lost the motivation because they were straight up lazy. For anyone that loses motivation, laziness mixed in with a bad routine and diet was what did them in.

[Hades]

What is this bowflex m3? I searched amazon and got no results. Is it some kind of elliptical or does it have a weight bench and overhead press type setup? Post a picture if you can.

I'll go against the grain here and say just bust your ass on the bowflex since you already own it. Machines aren't the devil and you can get bigger and stronger using them.

Then you can hit up the barstarzz forums and start looking up bar type workouts. You're a skinny guy so you already have a huge advantage in bar sports. Pullups, muscle ups, handstand pushups, and pistols should come to you a lot easier since you're not a fatty.

If you have some money to burn hit up coach sommer's gymnastic bodies forum too.

[andy]

It's an elliptical, so you work your feet, arms and legs, you can adjust the tension and everything like a bike. I wish I could just go out and eat a few steaks, I've been eating bacon cheeseburgers and curly fries for the better part of four months, and yeah, maybe gained five, ten pounds at the most. I'm 24, so I never really wanted to join the gym, mostly because I never had a desire to, and the one's by me were not ideal (I'd prefer a 24 hour gym, that way I could utilize all the machines). Anyways, my community college has a pretty good fitness center, so I'll be joining that soon once I get things sorted out (still have to take a couple classes before I transfer, even though I have my two-year degree).

[The Beast1]

(12-09-2014 03:14 PM)andy Wrote:  

It's an elliptical, so you work your feet, arms and legs, you can adjust the tension and everything like a bike. I wish I could just go out and eat a few steaks, I've been eating bacon cheeseburgers and curly fries for the better part of four months, and yeah, maybe gained five, ten pounds at the most. I'm 24, so I never really wanted to join the gym, mostly because I never had a desire to, and the one's by me were not ideal (I'd prefer a 24 hour gym, that way I could utilize all the machines). Anyways, my community college has a pretty good fitness center, so I'll be joining that soon once I get things sorted out (still have to take a couple classes before I transfer, even though I have my two-year degree).

Go to myfitnesspal.com , enter in a typical week day diet with everything you have consumed. If you don't know certain percentages, guestimate. Post them here.

Why are the gyms near you not desirable?

These are the two reasons ectomorphs never gain mass:
1. Bad diet (not enough FATS and PROTEINS)
2. Bad routine

Start doing low rep high weight lifts. 4x5 is a decent place to start.

[jimukr104]

Frenchie I respect your opinion so lets agree to disagree a bit but you REALLY didn't need to like take out each part of what I said and make a comment..it means your living up to your name of ..well..being FRENCHIE (rolls eyes). Both our advice is good and better than doing nothing.

1. I told my story too get personal with the OP referred to , that's how you connect with people, including with you. Otherwise anything I say would sound like I am shouting orders. Interestingly though it seems that both you and me have about the same level of gain so it is VERY relevant. It means he can get the same as you with my method.

2. Since you don't know the OP. He is a statistic. To make assumptions on the future based on the assumption that he is like you or a typical RVF member with ALPHA traits is irrelevant. Statistically MOST people give up for various reasons, that is what matters. But the majority give up I think because they get TIRED of going and the time involved. The gyms make a killing on lifetime memberships for that reason alone. You are confusing laziness for unmotivated possibly.

3. You made the assumption about having people spot him. Well if this was 1993..I would agree with you. Back then guys would VOLUNTEER to spot me.
Fast forward t0 2015....I went to NY sports club for 3 weeks a year ago(free) and Baileys for 1 month. What I noticed was:

At 11 am..which is one of the best times to go since less people..it was crowded in the free weight room and one had long wait times. Same back in 1990's. But BIG difference.. no one wanted to help anyone else. I actually saw guys doing the bench without being spotted even though there were guys waiting around to go next.
My explanation: technology. Everyone was busy looking into their smart phone and even the serious guys were lost in their IPODS. If one wanted to get out early.. one basically hopped on a machine lol.
Realize I am in NYC ..where the gyms are crowded and probably smaller than in other places. Also half the members speak English as second language might not help.
But we can't assume OP gym will be any different.

2. Going early is a great idea if one is SOOOOOO MOTIVATED to do so. Again, stats..most guys hate waking up early. Why should we both assume OP is average. I don't buy into it that because he is on RVF he is some kind of Alpha motivated guy and you shouldn't either, which his history kind of confirms.
Also in some gyms in many cities even going early is crowded. Gyms near subways or in Manhattan always seem crowded from what I have seen. But again you are WRONG to assume to know what OP schedule would be. Plus you are maybe overestimating what his motivation level would be..he isn't you. Don't expect him to be! Again maybe you like cheese(Frenchie) and I like steak..different strokes for different folks! His only available time might be afternoon..who knows?

Quote:

hat's decent advise for someone who has a background in personal fitness. If you've never lifted any weights before, getting gear and doing it at home is a terrible way to start. Watching internet videos for form is alright if you have developed the mind/muscle connection but seeing as he has never lifted he's at the very least going to lose gym momentum or worse get an injury from improper form.

Agreed..but if he already has the bowflex it doesn't hurt to start with that. Remember since he NEVER lifted weights he will still be able to benefit from progressive overload..in the beginning. During this time he will see if he has the motivation and desire to continue. If he does he should them start reading alot!

Plus as far as we know he has a roommate , family member or friend to workout with. We don't know. My wife spots me lol.

I do know what goes on in many gyms for a LARGE amount of people though... they are not working out right regardless of the so called possible opportunities to do so.

Quote:

Secondly, personal fitness is a lifestyle choice. The benefits of a gym give you people who can not only spot you, but offer tips on form as well as diet. It took me three solid years of lifting before I started seeing noticeable body type improvements.

I partly covered that... most aren't spotting or GIVING tips..except for the 300 lb fat guy who brought his boom box to the club and sat down in every ones way . I guess he can give tips since his fat ass has observed us lifting? lol. Realize there is a difference between the big chain gyms and the small bodybuilder ones. In the chain most guys are blind leading the blind.

Btw if it took you 3 years to get results ..wtf? maybe you should be the one listening to advice(wink). TBH there is nothing wrong for a beginner to use certain machines for their first few weeks. You should have started researching..tbh since I see few impressive ectomorphs there was never anyone who could give great advice.
Magazines taught me a lot(realize this is before the internet..i actually had to buy magazines)

Regardless almost EVERYONE plateaus in the beginning. That is weigh-training 101 for beginners. There is only so much muscle growth that can take place at any given interval. I think after the 1st 3 months most people regardless of adjustments have to expect that. Of course if one fucks up (wink wink) during the initial period..certainly they might need to catch up.

PS -with the internet today..there is no excuse to not have an idea of what routine to do.

[Agreddor]

Learn how to do the basic compounds; squat, bench, deadlifts, overhead presses. Get your diet on track. Complex carbs, healthy fats, LOTS OF PROTEIN. Eat a lot of meat.

Build your strength foundation first, then do isolation exercises.

[The Beast1]

(12-09-2014 04:04 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Frenchie I respect your opinion so lets agree to disagree a bit but you REALLY didn't need to like take out each part of what I said and make a comment..it means your living up to your name of ..well..being FRENCHIE (rolls eyes). Both our advice is good and better than doing nothing.

Fun fact, i'm not french. That's a different story for a different time.

(12-09-2014 04:04 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

1. I told my story too get personal with the OP referred to , that's how you connect with people, including with you. Otherwise anything I say would sound like I am shouting orders. Interestingly though it seems that both you and me have about the same level of gain so it is VERY relevant. It means he can get the same as you with my method.

How long have you been working your "routine"? You're 40 and i'm 25. The gains i've gotten have came on VERY quickly. How long have you been lifting to see the gains you have?

Once I got a trainer to show me proper form free weights became the go to for me to start getting strength. The routine that trainer gave me was an A/B mix that was so so. I got some foundational strength, but I was stuck at 165 which was mostly fat from bulking.

Somewhere on the internet, I read that ectos need full body compound lifts to see any gains. So, I took a dive and found a great routine that got my body working.

The problem I have is this, for a long time I pussy footed around at the gym doing all of the wrong things. I used machines, ate whatever, and guess what I didn't see any strength or physique changes. This was back in 2010 and yes, I lost my motivation and stopped going because I didn't see the point.

This was before I got serious with my diet and routine. In 2012, I dialed in both, I started seeing strength gains over the course of a year. Getting a better physique took a LOT longer to figure out.

(12-09-2014 04:04 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

2. Since you don't know the OP. He is a statistic. To make assumptions on the future based on the assumption that he is like you or a typical RVF member with ALPHA traits is irrelevant. Statistically MOST people give up for various reasons, that is what matters. But the majority give up I think because they get TIRED of going and the time involved. The gyms make a killing on lifetime memberships for that reason alone. You are confusing laziness for unmotivated possibly.

You're right, I don't know the OP. But I do know me. Back when I tried to get into personal fitness I did all of the wrong things and guess what happened:

I stopped going because I didn't see the point. I didn't look like a guy on the fitness mag even after 6 months of going and using machines.

People who develop a proper routine and figure out how his/her body responds to eating whole and proper food will never quit. My three friends (one was the ecto, the other two were lard asses) never set foot in the gym. After I helped them dial in their diet and routine, they not only saw strength and physique gains they kept coming back.

(12-09-2014 04:04 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

3. You made the assumption about having people spot him. Well if this was 1993..I would agree with you. Back then guys would VOLUNTEER to spot me.
Fast forward t0 2015....I went to NY sports club for 3 weeks a year ago(free) and Baileys for 1 month. What I noticed was:

At 11 am..which is one of the best times to go since less people..it was crowded in the free weight room and one had long wait times. Same back in 1990's. But BIG difference.. no one wanted to help anyone else. I actually saw guys doing the bench without being spotted even though there were guys waiting around to go next.
My explanation: technology. Everyone was busy looking into their smart phone and even the serious guys were lost in their IPODS. If one wanted to get out early.. one basically hopped on a machine lol.
Realize I am in NYC ..where the gyms are crowded and probably smaller than in other places. Also half the members speak English as second language might not help.
But we can't assume OP gym will be any different.

I can't help you here. I go to a similar club gym branch. I'm on a first name basis with all of the trainers and met a couple of dudes who are not only good gym friends but are way more experienced than I am. The one guy I know is a serious powerlifter. The guy does 500 lbs squats and deadlifts bending the bar. He helped show me how to do a proper squat and deadlift. People ask me for spots all the time. Maybe you should try asking people for a spot instead of being intimidated by their iPods?

(12-09-2014 04:04 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

2. Going early is a great idea if one is SOOOOOO MOTIVATED to do so. Again, stats..most guys hate waking up early. Why should we both assume OP is average. I don't buy into it that because he is on RVF he is some kind of Alpha motivated guy and you shouldn't either, which his history kind of confirms.
Also in some gyms in many cities even going early is crowded. Gyms near subways or in Manhattan always seem crowded from what I have seen. But again you are WRONG to assume to know what OP schedule would be. Plus you are maybe overestimating what his motivation level would be..he isn't you. Don't expect him to be! Again maybe you like cheese(Frenchie) and I like steak..different strokes for different folks! His only available time might be afternoon..who knows?

Again not French

I used to go in the evenings too and during my lunch break. When you lift in the morning, you perform far better than when you work out at night. I can't explain it. Even my three friends have mentioned this as well so I'll let my anecdotal experience work here.

If the OP wants to be average that's fine. Go right on ahead and continue the mediocrity just like everyone else. And when he gets frustrated by not seeing any physique and strength gains he'll quit just like everyone else.

Personally, I detest mediocrity since I see it in everyone around me. Call me an elitist alpha dawg. RvF got me good here

(12-09-2014 04:04 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Quote:

hat's decent advise for someone who has a background in personal fitness. If you've never lifted any weights before, getting gear and doing it at home is a terrible way to start. Watching internet videos for form is alright if you have developed the mind/muscle connection but seeing as he has never lifted he's at the very least going to lose gym momentum or worse get an injury from improper form.

Agreed..but if he already has the bowflex it doesn't hurt to start with that. Remember since he NEVER lifted weights he will still be able to benefit from progressive overload..in the beginning. During this time he will see if he has the motivation and desire to continue. If he does he should them start reading alot!

Plus as far as we know he has a roommate , family member or friend to workout with. We don't know. My wife spots me lol.

I do know what goes on in many gyms for a LARGE amount of people though... they are not working out right regardless of the so called possible opportunities to do so.

He needs someone to show him proper form period. The bowflex is great when you know to pinch your shoulder blades, puff up your chest, etc. Going in without any background will get him mediocre results and work out muscles that he doesn't need to hit. Doing machines without proper form is another great way to hurt yourself.

Also what is going on in New York City's gyms? This behavior isn't rampant in New York nor my former college gym. If someone is pussy footing around weights and you're waiting for him to finish let him know. Don't be afraid to unplug people from their iPod matrix.

(12-09-2014 04:04 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Quote:

Secondly, personal fitness is a lifestyle choice. The benefits of a gym give you people who can not only spot you, but offer tips on form as well as diet. It took me three solid years of lifting before I started seeing noticeable body type improvements.

I partly covered that... most aren't spotting or GIVING tips..except for the 300 lb fat guy who brought his boom box to the club and sat down in every ones way . I guess he can give tips since his fat ass has observed us lifting? lol. Realize there is a difference between the big chain gyms and the small bodybuilder ones. In the chain most guys are blind leading the blind.

I go to the New York big chain gym. The big 300lbs fat guy can probably put you, your wife, and another person on your shoulders and squat you without question. They're called power lifters and they don't care what their body fat percentage is. Strength and being "cut" are two different things.

(12-09-2014 04:04 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Btw if it took you 3 years to get results ..wtf? maybe you should be the one listening to advice(wink). TBH there is nothing wrong for a beginner to use certain machines for their first few weeks. You should have started researching..tbh since I see few impressive ectomorphs there was never anyone who could give great advice.
Magazines taught me a lot(realize this is before the internet..i actually had to buy magazines)

Two years for strength and one to figure out how to manage fat. The strength was there, but the physique wasn't until I figured out that level of detail one needs to control fat levels. That is by far the hardest part of bodybuilding.

(12-09-2014 04:04 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Regardless almost EVERYONE plateaus in the beginning. That is weigh-training 101 for beginners. There is only so much muscle growth that can take place at any given interval. I think after the 1st 3 months most people regardless of adjustments have to expect that. Of course if one fucks up (wink wink) during the initial period..certainly they might need to catch up.

PS -with the internet today..there is no excuse to not have an idea of what routine to do.

People plateau because:

1. Diet
2. Routine
3. Over training (which is also be caused by eating a poor diet and not letting your body repair itself).

You're not going to find anyone on this forum who will disagree with what i've posted. This question the OP posted has been mentioned several times on this forum.

Build your strength foundation first using compound lifts, dial in the diet, and then do isolation exercisers to sculpt the physique.

What frustrates me is hearing people go into the gym, half ass their routine/diet, and then quit because they didn't see any changes to their strength of body.

Lifting changed my life. People who haven't seen me in awhile are thrown off by how different my personality and posture is. Obviously all of the, "People respect you more and you get more opportunities" thing came true. I was getting less shit from people left and right, but the biggest benefit came from a different place. You'll laugh, but I legit heard God in the gym once I passed 205 lbs on my deadlift. What he told me is besides the point

Do it right in a gym with proper eyes watching you get form. Then go back to the machines to sculpt the physique.

[Rutting Elephant]

Since you live "by" and not "in" the city, you might want to check out Ross Enamait's training advice. (He's been mentioned many times on RVF.)
The oversimplified key to which is: picking up large, odd-shaped rocks and grabbing on to thick tree branches can seriously build strength.

[jimukr104]

Quote:

I go to the Boston branch of your NYSC gym. The big 300lbs fat guy can probably put you, your wife, and another person on your shoulders and squat you without question. They're called power lifters and they don't care what their body fat percentage is. Strength and being "cut" are two different things.

Yes fat people can squat a lot. I mean you got to have strong legs if your fat and carrying the weight around lol . But I was referring to guys(a specific one) who actually DON'T DO ANYTHING..except try to shoot the breeze with everyone in his immediate area. I never seen him do anything but sit around.

As for my age..well I didn't work out for over a decade so you are right..but just like you my results were within the beginning. At my age I am not going to fuck up my metabalism nor gain fat that I will have a hard time to get rid of. Infact when I got back into it about 2 yrs ago I started using whey and developed Bladder/Kidney stones although I drink a lot of fluids. Again after a certain age one has to handle their diet /workouts differently.

My new routine is actually body weight exercises mixed in..plus as an ectomorph I benefit from big compound exercises


Chest and triceps: Wide grip leaning in dips to work my lower chest and triceps followed by heavy weight bench press.
Back: Pull ups as WIDE as I can go(often have to go to the park forthewide bar) followed by close grip chin ups and sometimes follow that with barbell curls.
Shoulder: overhead press (rarely add in laterals)
Legs: barebell squats


Doing just this I fine I am doing better than when I had dozens of different exercises like I did at the gym. Obviously I do HEAVY weights except for squats where I risk injury and using free weights at home is dangerous for squats lol.

I use to add weight to my pull ups and dips but after going of the protein I find it hard to do now. YES WHEY WORKS lol.