[wi30]

I graduate with a degree in Marketing from a state school this December. I was just offered a job with a fortune 500 company selling supplemental insurance. It's 100% commission and I have to get certified before training which will cost me around $200.

I've looked into it and know that it involves a ton of hard work. There is only one other agent for this company in my area and will help train me, so I don't have to worry about agent saturation or competition within the firm. I also have another meeting with the regional sales director to get more information.

They have a good bonus and incentive program, but the 100% commission is what worries me. I know I have the skills and work ethic to succeed, but would like some first hand knowledge from anyone who has experience in this line of work.

For the record, If I take this job I plan to grind it out for a few years and build up a nest egg to become fully self employed. If I don't take this job I will keep working my college job until I get another sales gig that will hopefully pay a base salary plus commission. I've sent my resume to multiple other jobs and have a few leads that could pan out.

[tarquin]

I had an interview with a place when I was down on my luck. A friend of mine went through with it. In the interview they asked me to generate a list of 100 people I know. Those would be the people I start with. From there it is all cold calling. The guys who stay are the ones who are lucky enough to hit a few bigger accounts early on, enough for them to stay and become middle management and bring in new salespeople. Middle management gets a cut of whatever the salesmen get, so it becomes a multi-level marketing deal with the credible (or stench) of insurance sales.

I honestly think you can find a better job for the effort required to make a buck, even if you have to create the job yourself.

[Chaos]

Make a travel insurance for Russians that is reliable like clockwork and you are golden.

[TheFinalEpic]

That depends on your sales skill and past abilities. Commission is one of the greatest motivators in my eyes, but obviously, you don't close, you don't eat. You cannot ever be comfortable, in my opinion, its the greatest job for someone that's swallowed the red pill.

[Cattle Rustler]

Are you sure it's not one of those MLM scammy companies like Primerica?

I hear "F500" or F1000" thrown out there a lot along with "venture-backed" and "backed by X-Hedge Fund".

Look at Herbalife, Amway, and Primerica. The last one used to be part of Citi.

[kaotic]

Yeah I was going to say, sounds like a MLM company, Transamerica in my area ?

Questions:
Did some guy bring you to a group meeting the first time ?
Was it a group of super enthusiastic people introducing you to everyone ?
Are they asking for money up front for the certification and no base salary ? (I'm assuming yes in your post)
Is the office in a rental office building ?
Is the insurance you're selling for seniors or retirees ?

If you answered yes to at least 2 of these, more than likely it's a pyramid (MLM) scheme.

[tallglassofmilk]

My best friend from college was going into life insurance (even interned with a company) until he decided to become a dirtbag instead. What he told me is that you work for forever (i.e. super long hours) in the beginning making peanuts but if you are successful you essentially get to "coast" on your social circle since most of them renew every year without thinking. Selling insurance is a good career if you have a large social circle where the people are better off with this type of insurance and are very personable and extroverted.

As others have said the certification sounds suspect and I can't speak about the company you are thinking about. But I would think about whether this is a quality product that people are actually going to need/want because nobody should sell their friends garbage?

[Cattle Rustler]

Also, as tarquin said mentioned, if they make you write a list of people you know....

Walk out.

They're going to make you sell the insurance to your closest friends. You're going to lose a couple of friends over a shitty product. Ask yourself this, if it's such a good product then why do you have to sell it to those close to you first?

[Rawmeo]

(12-03-2014 01:13 AM)kaotic Wrote:  

Yeah I was going to say, sounds like a MLM company, Transamerica in my area ?

Questions:
Did some guy bring you to a group meeting the first time ?
Was it a group of super enthusiastic people introducing you to everyone ?
Are they asking for money up front for the certification and no base salary ? (I'm assuming yes in your post)
Is the office in a rental office building ?
Is the insurance you're selling for seniors or retirees ?

If you answered yes to at least 2 of these, more than likely it's a pyramid (MLM) scheme.

Pyramid and MLM are not exactly the same; a lot of companies (I can even say "most") work under a MLM scheme with employees; but there are notable differences between the 2 (I am not a member of any MLM company and I am not interested in joining any for now)

I however agree that if at least 2 questions are "yes", you are mostly facing a MLM "opportunity". Making a list of 100 people you know? Surely you will get rich with family and friends. You can make money for sure. MLMs are not scams. But they require tremendous amounts of effort to generate money, and you are likely to become the "oh shit, not him again, what is he gonna sell this time?" guy in Christmas parties.

Careful. I sold insurance in the past, but they never asked me to involve family and friends. They sent me coldcalling and knocking doors.

[ColSpanker]

I once overheard a life insurance guy on the phone talking to a college. He felt there is a reason so many of these companies burn through people. Once they've got all their new hires' relatives and friends, the people it would be impossible to get under normal circumstances, they dump them.

[wi30]

Thanks for the replies so far. It's definitely not a MLM or pyramid scheme, Amway tried to rope me in when I was in high school and I got out before getting involved. I mentioned it here http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-17217-...#pid878523

I wouldn't be selling to any friends or recruiting anyone. They focus on selling short-term disability, vision, dental, etc. to employees of small businesses. So I would essentially be cold calling and prospecting small business owners, helping their employees add coverage for things the employer doesn't offer. They will pay to send me to training.

Almost all of the regional sales directors and above are stationed in cities 1.5-2 hours away and have a very small presence in the city I'm living in. There are also tons of small and local business in my area so I see the potential to succeed.

Even if I take this job and don't make a ton of money, it will still be a good learning experience and resume builder. I currently work as a delivery driver and run a very small business that has yet to turn a profit. I'm good at selling and think I could put some of the red pill knowledge I've learned here to the test.

[Rawmeo]

If you are not trying to sell to family and friends, but rather coldcalling, this might be a chance to make money for you if you are up for it.

[Harvey Specter]

I know several former and current insurance salesmen. Large respected companies have their employees work on 100% commission, so I don't think the worries about it being MLM are justified. Typically the first thing they do is have you reach out to all of your friends and family. Those will be your bread and butter. So you have to expect that as real possibility that you will burn some bridges with those close to you, because that is what it takes to survive in the industry.

Also, don't do it, unless you are ready to make it a career. It is definitely a down the road profession where you if you can build a good book of business, you can just float by on residuals.

[heavy]

^^ Yep what Harvey said. High turnover job for a couple reasons:

1. You will piss off some family/friends off by trying to sell to them. The ones you don't piss off will just think you're stupid. Just know that the people you sell to, that you're duping them into buying...
2. ...Shitty products. You don't make money on legit consumer insurance like term life, car, homeowners, etc. You make make money on things like universal or whole life. These are sold as investments. Terrible investments. Your goal of insurance is to never have to use it. Don't buy insurance hoping to use it.
3. If you're fine with #1 and #2, you can make great money.

[wi30]

Good advice. I want to reiterate that I would be interacting with small business owners and managers, not individuals. I would never take a job that would force me to sell to friends and family. I also wouldn't be pushing products I don't believe in. This isn't a "con single healthy 20 year old's to buy whole life insurance" gig. It's more of setting up dental, vision, or disability insurance for employees that aren't fully covered by their current plans.

Has anyone else worked a commission only job? I have the drive and personality to excel, I'm just still deciding if this is the direction I want to go.

[Blackmagic]

Sounds like AFLAC, which is a saturated sale in almost every market. My best friend, who also had a marketing degree out of a state school, worked with them his senior year and got his licensing out of the way so he started selling for them about 20 hours per week the semester we graduated on a commission only basis. He moved to Florida a couple of years out of school and got into a regional property & casualty firm there before moving to one of the big P&C players (AJ Gallagher, Marsh-McClennan, Aon, etc.). He's 31 and making about $200k as a VP in his office now. I actually just visited him a couple of weeks ago and we were talking about how shitty the AFLAC gig was but he grinded it out and looked for other opportunities when they presented themselves. He could open his own shop but he's not interested in the entrepreneurial route and he's now looking into gigs to do work for hedge funds that invest in huge re-insurance policies where he could double his current income in the next couple of years.

All that is to say that it is possible to make it by starting out in an environment like that but you will probably bounce around a little. You could be a great salesman, get lucky, and be making $250k per year by your late 20s with AFLAC but it's unlikely. Less than 5% of people that get into the insurance industry survive longer than 18 months. If you're really passionate about it, give it a shot, but keep looking for other opportunities with a base salary if you can.

[wi30]

(12-03-2014 10:38 PM)Blackmagic Wrote:  

Sounds like AFLAC, which is a saturated sale in almost every market. My best friend, who also had a marketing degree out of a state school, worked with them his senior year and got his licensing out of the way so he started selling for them about 20 hours per week the semester we graduated on a commission only basis. He moved to Florida a couple of years out of school and got into a regional property & casualty firm there before moving to one of the big P&C players (AJ Gallagher, Marsh-McClennan, Aon, etc.). He's 31 and making about $200k as a VP in his office now. I actually just visited him a couple of weeks ago and we were talking about how shitty the AFLAC gig was but he grinded it out and looked for other opportunities when they presented themselves. He could open his own shop but he's not interested in the entrepreneurial route and he's now looking into gigs to do work for hedge funds that invest in huge re-insurance policies where he could double his current income in the next couple of years.

All that is to say that it is possible to make it by starting out in an environment like that but you will probably bounce around a little. You could be a great salesman, get lucky, and be making $250k per year by your late 20s with AFLAC but it's unlikely. Less than 5% of people that get into the insurance industry survive longer than 18 months. If you're really passionate about it, give it a shot, but keep looking for other opportunities with a base salary if you can.

Good guess. I'm not expecting to make 6 figures in my first year or anything, just need to start stacking cash for other opportunities. I already started a very small business but need to build up money for it and other ventures. Like I mentioned earlier, the main reason I'm considering it is because I'm stuck in this city for another year or so.

I have no interest in selling insurance the rest of my life, but I think I could get in and get out with a good amount of money after a couple years. The city and surrounding towns have about 100,000 people and is known for small businesses instead of only big chains and franchises. The only other salesmen in the territory is a 20 something girl. I know the area like the back of my hand and think there is the opportunity to do make a lot of money. I won't be competing with a bunch of salesmen fighting over the same territory.

I want to get into real estate and be self employed. Getting good at selling and learning about insurance would be an asset for me, even if I only stay there a year. I have no house, wife, kids, major assets, or bills, so if I'm making peanuts in the beginning it won't really be much different than my current lifestyle and income. I can stay on my parents insurance for another couple years and have a part time delivery job as a safety net.

[heavy]

It's a good way in to a small business.

I have a friend who does really well B2B sales, now he's in medical supplies (OR surgical devices). I've heard him say he wishes he'd have started in insurance because of the route to owning small insurance business. Either way, he doesn't have to sit behind a desk.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

Back in the day in New York, in the 60s, my Dad did quite well in insurance. He was in his late 20s, and doing ok, and took things to the next level by selling some company policies. He is a charismatic man, so he only needed access. He got that access by sending a clever sales letter to a handful of key decision makers...his hook was including a 100 dollar bill and telling them that he only needed 15 min of their time and that he understood just how valuable their time was. This was a bold move, as an online inflation calculator will reveal that to be about 750 dollars in today's money. Money talks, bullshit walks. No one else was doing that.

[Blackmagic]

Wi30, the hardest part about insurance, real estate, or any commission only gig is being able to cover bills while you get yourself financially stable the first couple of years. If you have that squared away, it sounds like an opportunity that will teach you a good bit and hopefully you'll make some cash before you move elsewhere. If you're ultimately interested in real estate, start attending real estate investment clubs near you, and offer to "bird dog" properties and do some research for the top guys for free. The key to succeeding in any of these businesses, aside from your work ethic and sales skills, is having someone successful show you the ropes. Business mentors can be difficult to find but exponentially worth the investment of many hours you put into the relationship before getting anything back.

[wi30]

(12-05-2014 09:17 AM)Blackmagic Wrote:  

Wi30, the hardest part about insurance, real estate, or any commission only gig is being able to cover bills while you get yourself financially stable the first couple of years. If you have that squared away, it sounds like an opportunity that will teach you a good bit and hopefully you'll make some cash before you move elsewhere. If you're ultimately interested in real estate, start attending real estate investment clubs near you, and offer to "bird dog" properties and do some research for the top guys for free. The key to succeeding in any of these businesses, aside from your work ethic and sales skills, is having someone successful show you the ropes. Business mentors can be difficult to find but exponentially worth the investment of many hours you put into the relationship before getting anything back.

My brother-in-law built up a multi-million dollar real estate portfolio. I pick his brain whenever I'm in town.

I already have some money saved up to keep me afloat. After talking with a higher up, I found out that they eventually want to get a dozen salesmen working in my city and turn it into its own region. There are thousands of small businesses so if I play my cards right I will be able to pull six figures in a few years then get out before agent saturation. There is also the opportunity to move up to management down the road.

[cool guy]

There's good money in the industry I used to sell for a few companies but I got out. If you take a night job it frees you up during the day for selling. One guy I worked with was a cable guy and had a Fri-Sat-Sun schedule working 12 hour days while he sold during the other days. It costs money to sell because you have to meet people all over the place and go to events you eat out a lot. This is what burns people out the most as you have to pay for fuel, phone/computer and clothes. There's more money if you get your FINRA license there's several series involved depending on the company you work for. For me it wasn't bad but there's a lot of corruption but many insurance brokers mix financial planning in with their sales. I never got that far myself but there's almost no limit to how far you can go.
http://www.finra.org/, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_I..._Authority

[WestIndianArchie]

redacted

[Neo]

Let us know what you decide.

[Cattle Rustler]

Quote:

Whether you realize it or not, many of your friends(and this goes for most people in general, and even your 'colleagues' in the firm) will want you to fail in the business. Most of the time it's nothing personal, many of them won't do it consciously. But just the fact that you're going into business with the potential to make money will make them sick.

Keep this in mind if you pursue it. Watch how many of your 'friends' will either not want to meet you, or will reluctantly meetup only to take no action.

Dude, I don't want to see my insurance salesman friend fail.

But I sure as hell don't want to meet him because I know he'll try to peddle me some insurance to make money every single time we meet. If he's a newbie, then he won't know any better that he's selling some crappy insurance. And if he's experience, then he knows he's selling some shitty product.

Read the previous posts, those of us who knew people working in insurance cut bridges with them because they 1 - would peddle their products non-stop 2 - ask us for leads every time.