[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Hey all! I registered just now to share my sob story of a girl whom I've had a crush on through high-school and whom I've taken out for dinners and trips but she keeps rejecting me and dating brainless jocks and....

Ok, ok, just kidding! I am fortunate enough to have other options at the moment. Still, I'm noticing a problem with my game and it is becoming irksome

If I get a girl on a date ( ), I do most stuff well, push-pulls, kino qualifications, escalation etc. However, getting girls on a date or even number closing is a huge chore and I don't know why. This has happened 4 times in a row already.

Typical scene: I'm in a club/bar and approach a girl. We start talking and it goes well. She asks many questions, mirrors, kino is good and mutual, laughs... all seems ok. When one of us has to go (or I feel that an exit is prudent so not to get LJBF-ed by talking to death) and it's time for a number close or venue change, I use something classic like "Hey you seem interesting, we should talk again. Give me your number."
Typical answer: mumbling, hesitation and "mmm.... I don't know... we'll see each other again anyway."

Last night at a bar, a chick approached me (!). She was warm and interested from the first minute, totally ate my palm reading (which also attracted another girl), responded well to kino and seemed quite interested. And when the time came, I got the same "I dunno... we'll meet again somewhere." I considered an anti-LMR story but it would be too intense for a number close... so I just shrugged and responded with: "I know, you fear stalkers. I wouldn't call you more than 60 times per day anyway." Which got me more laughs/kino but still nothing else.

Polite, but still a rejection. Is this expected? I definitely don't give off a creepy stalker vibe, and if I gave off an AFC vibe, no girl would stay talking. So what's wrong? Any way to reverse this? I understand that a girl who's not into you is hopeless. But if she is... wtf?

[Tuthmosis]

(04-19-2011 06:10 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Hey all! I registered just now to share my sob story of a girl whom I've had a crush on through high-school and whom I've taken out for dinners and trips but she keeps rejecting me and dating brainless jocks and....

Funny. It's good to know people (beside me) actually read the forum rules.

Based on what you've said here, it sounds like, to me anyway, you may have three problems working in concert:

1. You're too wedded to "game theory" - you're trying too hard to "kino," "pull-away," etc. and not focused on keeping things natural and elastic. It's ever-so-subtle, but it shows.

2. You're waiting till the end to close - ironically, this is classic game theory: if you wait till the end, you add un-due awkwardness to the exchange. You're probably telegraphing some nervousness.

3. You might be acting too clownish - this is a guess, but based on your stalker example. In trying to get with the chick, you might be lowering your value next to hers. She enjoys talking to you because "you're entertaining," but not because she respects you.

Those are my three cents.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Hm... I don't really feel the #1, but the others are some truly excellent suggestions. It never occurred to me that number closing might work better this way because I thought that the main points about it was to make it natural - i.e. when I really had to go - but this makes sense.
And #3--- looking backwards, this rings so true. I probably shouldn't jump that fast into giving favors (like palm reading is, I'd say) either.
Thanks a lot Tuth

[CJ]

Before even reading Tuth's response, I was willing to gamble on you're being too much of an "entertainer." Entertainers are fun, for girls, but they're not going to take one home unless you just got off a stage. You can use the jokes/routines to open the girl and build initial comfort, but you need to work some substance in after that, and show value/depth.

When I was first getting started I read some of Mystery's stuff, and watched some of his videos online. I had the same problem, trying to be an entertainer... worse yet, I would get the numbers, but rarely get a response when I called them, so I figured what I was saying on the phone was the issue. Through trial and error, advice here, and reading bang I fixed those issues, and I'm confident you will too. You seem like you're on the right path.

[Gmac]

(04-20-2011 12:32 PM)CJ Wrote:  

Before even reading Tuth's response, I was willing to gamble on you're being too much of an "entertainer." Entertainers are fun, for girls, but they're not going to take one home unless you just got off a stage. You can use the jokes/routines to open the girl and build initial comfort, but you need to work some substance in after that, and show value/depth.

When I was first getting started I read some of Mystery's stuff, and watched some of his videos online. I had the same problem, trying to be an entertainer... worse yet, I would get the numbers, but rarely get a response when I called them, so I figured what I was saying on the phone was the issue. Through trial and error, advice here, and reading bang I fixed those issues, and I'm confident you will too. You seem like you're on the right path.

This brings up a good point. If you aren't very smooth on the phone (or are just much better at texting), stick to texts for the most part. Most younger girls now don't pick up their phone for guys. I've stopped leaving voicemails, but my text game is solid so it's no problem.

[CJ]

(04-20-2011 12:45 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

This brings up a good point. If you aren't very smooth on the phone (or are just much better at texting), stick to texts for the most part. Most younger girls now don't pick up their phone for guys. I've stopped leaving voicemails, but my text game is solid so it's no problem.

Smooth on the phone or not, I'd still go with texting at first. I never had a problem talking to girls for WAY too much time (wasted time now, IMO) once they were on the phone, but my voicemails were probably awkward as shit. I hate voicemails. Even my friends, they get the strangest voicemails from me, as I'll just repeat some inside joke, yell a profanity laced tirade, or play part of a song on my guitar for them. Rarely a simple, "call me back" or message with any point to it.

[Tuthmosis]

(04-20-2011 01:28 PM)CJ Wrote:  

Smooth on the phone or not, I'd still go with texting at first. I never had a problem talking to girls for WAY too much time (wasted time now, IMO) once they were on the phone, but my voicemails were probably awkward as shit. I hate voicemails. Even my friends, they get the strangest voicemails from me, as I'll just repeat some inside joke, yell a profanity laced tirade, or play part of a song on my guitar for them. Rarely a simple, "call me back" or message with any point to it.

I used to have this same voicemail problem, until I, literally, started scripting them in advance. Over time, I let go of the crutch and was able to leave interesting VMs on the fly. One piece of advice: don't ever state the obvious. Don't say the date/time, "call me back," who you are, or your phone number. The rest is up to your creative ad-libbing.

I knew I had overcome the problem when girls started commenting on my VMs. "That voicemail was awesome!"; "I played your VM to my girlfriend"; "That's a keeper, I hit '9' to save it." etc. Bitches have no idea how much work happens behind-the-scenes.

That said, I don't think the younger chicks want to listen to voicemails. I haven't left one in a while, though I'm considering bringing it back for a retro, novelty experiment.

@CJ: Nice new avatar.

[Gmac]

(04-20-2011 01:46 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 01:28 PM)CJ Wrote:  

Smooth on the phone or not, I'd still go with texting at first. I never had a problem talking to girls for WAY too much time (wasted time now, IMO) once they were on the phone, but my voicemails were probably awkward as shit. I hate voicemails. Even my friends, they get the strangest voicemails from me, as I'll just repeat some inside joke, yell a profanity laced tirade, or play part of a song on my guitar for them. Rarely a simple, "call me back" or message with any point to it.

I used to have this same voicemail problem, until I, literally, started scripting them in advance. Over time, I let go of the crutch and was able to leave interesting VMs on the fly. One piece of advice: don't ever state the obvious. Don't say the date/time, "call me back," who you are, or your phone number. The rest is up to your creative ad-libbing.

I knew I had overcome the problem when girls started commenting on my VMs. "That voicemail was awesome!"; "I played your VM to my girlfriend"; "That's a keeper, I hit '9' to save it." etc. Bitches have no idea how much work happens behind-the-scenes.

That said, I don't think the younger chicks want to listen to voicemails. I haven't left one in a while, though I'm considering bringing it back for a retro, novelty experiment.

@CJ: Nice new avatar.

Now I'm interested in hearing some of these VM's. What kinda stuff are you leaving?

[Tuthmosis]

(04-20-2011 01:55 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

Now I'm interested in hearing some of these VM's. What kinda stuff are you leaving?

Well, shit, I don't save my recordings. Like I said before, it's been a while since I last left a VM, but it tends to be observational stuff or made-up you're-not-going-to-believe-what-I-just-heard/saw/did or have-you-ever-noticed kinda shit. I obviously avoided letting it get clownish, but it was almost like dropping a quick scrap of B-grade stand-up material, sometimes--but sometimes not--combined with a light neg. It's all in the tone and delivery.

One bad example:

Whiny Girl-Voice: "...so leave a message after the beep..." [beep]

Tuthmosis [sounding as if he's looking around]: "I shit you not: I'm looking at a gay dude that looks just like you. Jesus Christ. I'm not sure I can hang out with you anymore. The worst part: his ass might be nicer than yours. This is bizarre."
[hang-up]

Stupid shit like that. With the right tone--very casual, light-hearted, but manly, while pretending to be walking, or hanging out outside somewhere--it lands. I often went for that "you asshole!" reaction, especially if I was close to closing the deal. But I'd feel it out. Sometimes I went more for intrigue, but other times would gamble with something like that.

[tjuan]

(04-20-2011 01:55 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

One piece of advice: don't ever state the obvious. Don't say the date/time, "call me back," who you are, or your phone number. The rest is up to your creative ad-libbing.

gmac, are you saying you just leave an 'observation' type vm? "i just saw this.. blah blah blah.. *click*"

[CJ]

(04-20-2011 01:46 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

@CJ: Nice new avatar.

Thanks, figured after a year and a half it was about time, and Leatherhead cracks me up. Always dug your avatar too, which I see you just changed, but that's probably because I'm 1/4 Egyptian.