[Sonsowey]

So I have heard via broscientists that it takes about three days to actually recover from a workout.

Today is Friday and I did legs Tuesday. I am still kinda sore, nothing extreme but still noticable. Is it a bad idea to do legs again today, or should I just go for it?

[RexImperator]

Just go for it. There's a good chance the lifting will make you less sore afterwards.

[modus_operandi]

Just to clear up a couple things.... it's not the lactic acid causing the pain. As you work out your body is breaking down molecules to get the energy needed which in turn produces a more acidic state which makes your muscles feel like they are burning. Lactate actually is a metabolic buffer that slows down the rate at which cells become acidic. Lactate clears your system on average in about 30 minutes.

What you are experiencing is DOMS or Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness...a perfectly normal occurrence of micro-trauma (that you caused by concentric, isometric and or eccentric movements) in your muscles and surrounding tissues. *Protip...its the concentric or "lowering" if you will of a weight that actually causes more of this trauma....in layman's terms it's the lowering of the weight not the contraction that is the "muscle builder" movement that works best (by placing a higher load on your muscles...I know sounds counter intuitive but its science!).

So studies have shown that soreness is not the best indicator of how effective your workout was...its due to our great genetic differences and how your body metabolically handles the micro-traumas you cause to it. Also studies have shown that streching before and after actually have little to no effect on DOMS...I know I know counter intuitive.

So what to do?

Well, if your still sore massage helps move fluid around your body, and taking saffron and curcumin (I wont mention something like that if there wasn't a study to support it so here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24982601) can help to alleviate the soreness.

If your still sore after 72 hours then you have likely "over trained" so to speak and should give it a rest for another day. Your body only has so many "fire trucks" it can send to repair the fires you cause and if you go right back and cause more fires by working out you may find the workout ineffective as you will reach muscle failure much quicker and not in a way conducive to the micro-trauma we want.

Nutrition is also key...if your not getting the proper nutrients in the proper volumes your body needs there will be delays in its repair.

Hope this helps!

[StrikeBack]

I've squatted (and also benched and deadlifted, but not as often) heavy everyday for 6+ months. I'm talking about 85~100%+ of 1RM, although for low reps (3 or less). I was sore pretty much 24/7 although it wasn't as bad as it seemed, as it's like a bad smell that you get used to. The only times I didn't feel sore at all were when I was in the squat rack.

Through that (and combined with anecdotes from other lifters who've done the same), I've realised just how much exercise science doesn't know about the human body. What modus_operandi posted up there is pretty much what science currently knows, but in actual practice, that's very little knowledge. We're still a long way from uncovering some of the amazing stuff our body can adapt to.

Let me ask you this: if you're still pretty sore but set a squat PB in the gym that day, have you actually recovered or not? Because that happens often enough.

If you like, have a read of Matt Perryman's Squat Every Day ebook. It sums up some of the peculiarities of this training philosophy (employed by thousands of pro weightlifters and powerlifters around the world especially in the FSU and China) pretty well.

[birdie num num]

Do you foam roll the sore areas? I'm unaware if there is any science backing it up, but it sure does relieve any soreness in my muscles, especially in the legs.

[modus_operandi]

(11-21-2014 08:42 PM)birdie num num Wrote:  

Do you foam roll the sore areas? I'm unaware if there is any science backing it up, but it sure does relieve any soreness in my muscles, especially in the legs.

Yes as I mentioned above in my post foam rolling moves fluids around in the effected area and will provide for a decrease in soreness. Go for it!

[modus_operandi]

(11-21-2014 05:41 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

Let me ask you this: if you're still pretty sore but set a squat PB in the gym that day, have you actually recovered or not? Because that happens often enough.

Sure..could be the case depending on how advanced of a lifter (err squatter : ) ) you are. Perhaps your microtraumas have been repaired but your body's speed at dispersing the acidic chemical leftovers if you will of your previous workouts is not as fast....also dietary changes...heck we could Q&A all day...like did you run enough leucine across your mTOR pathway to initiate protein synthesis in previous workouts or perhaps your bodys ability to initiate and sustain Gluconeogenesis is advanced enough that your recovery times are much shorter then average. Heck even neurological pathways (your "mind muscle" connection) and your ability to activate more muscle fibers to contract was supported by another metabolic process you effected or affected by some other external stimuli....on and on ad infinitum and ad nauseum lol.

[Hades]

What helps is to alternate heavy days with light days.
Any lifting while sore will relieve soreness.

For instance, I once back squatted thirty days in a row. By no means was it the same rep/set range or percentage of one rep max. After a week you don't even get sore anymore.

[DarkTriad]

(11-21-2014 12:34 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Just go for it. There's a good chance the lifting will make you less sore afterwards.

I don't think his concern is soreness, it's what the soreness is telling him. You damage your muscles with an intense workout, they recover, then they hypertrophy in response. If you keep short circuiting the process by lifting again before you have fully recovered (nevermind completed your full hypertrophy response) you're going to be limiting your gains.

tl;dr - lifting isn't the goal, lifting is the method, maximum RESULTS are your goal.

[DarkTriad]

(11-22-2014 09:17 AM)Hades Wrote:  

What helps is to alternate heavy days with light days.
Any lifting while sore will relieve soreness.

For instance, I once back squatted thirty days in a row. By no means was it the same rep/set range or percentage of one rep max. After a week you don't even get sore anymore.

Who cares if you were sore or not? Did you have the same gains in strength or size as a guy following modern programming with proper rest and recovery periods?

[britchard]

Just work another muscle group. Your muscles are sore because they have been pulled apart from exercise and see still repairing. You want to let them repair fully before straining them again.

[RexImperator]

Hades has it right... If you don't want to do a full set of heavy lifts, go through your squat warmup sets. If more ambitious, you can also do a couple of light squat sets, say 80% of what you did previously, and you'll notice how the soreness goes away afterwards.

It's counterintuitive but it works.

[berserk]

If you physically can lift, then do it if you want. Sometimes you have such doms that you really can't lift.

[eradicator]

3 days?! 2 days or 48 hours of rest on each muscle group is ideal.

[modus_operandi]

Here's my workout. I've been hitting the gym for over 20 years and have competed in several local tournaments so have had to go thru all of the pre-contest PITA stuff. I find the below schedule provides for the best combination (**FOR ME**) of rest periods and keeping days when I have to use supporting muscle groups as far apart to ensure adequate rest of the targeted muscle or muscle group.

Monday: Legs (Quads and Hams) *Also I notice in the US Monday seems to national chest day so doing legs Monday ensures I have all the equipment to myself.

Tuesday: Chest and back (this also provides for a "secondary" workout of my biceps and triceps (from the pushing and pulling)

Wednesday: off

Thursday: Shoulders, calves, abs and forearms *Add traps in there if you want but I am genetically gifted there so just doing shoulder flys hits them pretty good

Friday: Arm day... Biceps and Triceps

So the above has worked out perfectly for me never having to worry about any soreness in the muscle group I'm training that day and yet not "ignoring" any particular muscle group long enough to cause any atrophy.

[StrikeBack]

Just to be clear, I'm not telling you guys to go squat or lift everyday while being very sore lol. I did what I did out of curiosity and I happened to have lots of free time back then. I also had already built up very high work capacity and recovery capacity. Some nights, I'd even squatted two rounds - I squatted, and felt like I did horribly, so I rested and went to bench for a bit, then came back to squat the same sets all over again. It's the ultimate bad way to have some fun with a barbell.

I'm not doing that now, due to social / lifestyle reasons.

What you can take away from my posts is that you can lift while sore and lifting might just make you less sore. And ultimately everything you learn about training programming in any sport will lead to one thing: you know enough to listen to what your body has to tell you, and write your own programs. That is also in one of the classics: Supertraining by Verkhoshansky and Siff.

As for muscles having full recovery blah blah, check out labourers sometimes. They work the same muscles everyday, hard, for hours. A new guy may get really sore for 2 weeks, but he then adapts and gets used to it, or he doesn't get to put foods on the table. They tend to have very overly developed muscles in specific areas. How can this be if their muscles never get the 48h rest period??? I'm pretty sure they didn't give Roman warriors and gladiators 48 hours of rest and proteins to recover fully either.

[berserk]

Squatting heavy is way different from manual labor. You are putting a lot more stess on a muscle if you can only do a movement 5 times. Labor is generally more fatigue soreness, similar to if you walk many kilometers in a day. Squat soreness is something different, it is microfractures of the muscle which then fills up with fluid and grows back thicker. This is why you might gain a lbs or two after a hard session or your legs will physically be larger, because they are filled with fluid.

I maintain that if you can walk without too much pain or walk up a pair of stairs at normal speed, then you can squat again, but if walking a set of stairs is torture, then don't squat.

[Sonsowey]

Thanks for all the opinions. Seems like the answer is... "do whatever works for you"