[Oblivion77]

Critical scenario here folks: I am a european guy living in the USA.
I do happen to get girls attention while in bars etc... if and only IF, I open my mouth because inevitably US girls seem to love Italy, the accent and blah blah.
In other words they do enjoy starting a conversation, if they overhear the accent.
I'm quite attractive too (according to my female friends), that does help.

Where is the issue then?
I dont initiate anything, my game sucks!

When I gets girls it is never thanks to the consistency of my game, but thanks to the "foreign-factor" and my look.
In other words, my frame isnt strong, plus, I really do not break the ice with the bold approach.
I very rarely open a set with opinion questions or other situational material.

My female friends keep saying I'm definitely a ladies-man, but they dont know half of it.
They arent aware that I never get out of my comfort zone and rarely try to pro-actively use the game.

I'm trying to get over it but I'm failing.

For instance, three nights ago (my first ever night sarging solo) I tried to hit on this waitress, at a sport bar where I often hang out.
I stopped her saying she resembles a friend of mine from Europe.
We chatted a little bit, she smiled, asked me where I'm from, we introduced each other and then she had to go.
The bar was very packed and clearly she had to work.

Yesterday I went back to that bar (kinda empty), socialized with the bartender, bouncer and voila', here comes the waitress.
She was clearly aware of my presence, but I have the impression she deliberately tried to avoid me.
She is usually super friendly, definitely not a guarded person.
I dont know if instead she was self conscious too.

Should I simply ignore her from now on and move on?
Or instead next time she serves my table I have to be friendly and re-connect?

From my previous experiences with barmaid and waitresses, the key point is to chat to them gradually every time you hang at that bar.
Then, one day, once they are comfortable chatting to you (and you found out they dont have a bfriend), you can ask them out busting her balls.
I usually go with "well, I have enough of you neglecting me with cheap drinks and small talk! if you want this international relationship to work I want some quality time! In Italy we get offended very easily, watch out! so, make it up to me. When are we going for a coffee?"

Anyway folk, your input is very much appreciated.
I'd really like to develop some game, rather than get something, thanks to the "foreign" factor.
In other words, as of now I dont control the situation...not at all.

[Oblivion77]

p.s. the waitress is a solid 8-8.5 and is single.

[Roosh]

Waitresses are tough even for guys WITH game, yet that's where you are starting.

You have to play up your strength, which is your accent and background. And to do that I would start approaching large numbers of girls... waitresses aren't enough. Go to a bar during happy hour and just open your mouth.

Check out the forum welcome thread for resources to get you started.

[twigman]

Funny one problem i found historically is that because I thought I wasn't bad looking I did tend to fear rejection more, because I Had an investment in looks working for me. I agree with Roosh re meeting more than the waitress.

[Oblivion77]

(12-13-2008 08:16 PM)twigman Wrote:  

Funny one problem i found historically is that because I thought I wasn't bad looking I did tend to fear rejection more, because I Had an investment in looks working for me. I agree with Roosh re meeting more than the waitress.

I agree, regarding the look/investment.
You might feel you shouldnt be rejected considering your "perceived" value.

Anyway, per Roosh's advice I went in and started using my accent and aiming at non-waitresses.
It worked quite well.

At a wine bar Two girls approached me once I sat close to them, and after 5 min of chat, when they were leaving, one asked for my business card.

At another bar (a loud sport bar venue) I was giving indications to a friend of mine, on the phone, about how to reach the bar.
Well, I was approached by these two girls that were sitting at the bar.

It is interesting to note as I till I spoke on the phone they were aware of my presence and smiled at me but didnt address me yet, while once I opened my mouth (and their brain screamed "Foreigner!") they immediately whispered to each other and then started the conversation asking me where I was from (it escalated and I chatted with one lady for a while. I number closed with her suggesting to try one of the italian restaurants I mentioned earlier).

I guess the accent provides outgoing girls with a genuine opener, if they want to take the initiative and talk to me.

I also got a couple of rejections, of course, but it was good to approach hot girls, boldly, even when they were in a set of 3 or more.

Actually, I havent been rejected so far (every girl introduced herself properly. In the worst cases they were very shy).
I was cockblocked, twice, by less attractive girls in the group (the girl I was talking to introduced herself to me and was chatting, until a friend dragged her back to the dance floor).

One thing I made mental note is I def. need to learn to approach the girl when she is in a more "friendly" spot of the bar I'm into.
It might be beneficial to talk to a girl while she goes to the bar, or to the restroom, rather than hit a set of 4 girls, sitting by themselves in a loud place, where I need to entertain all of them and conversation isnt ideal.


Thanks again for your inputs guys.

[X-Factor]

I'd like to add a note about the hired gun/waitress.

They're a tough nut to crack. You shouldn't have gone to that same bar the next night, especially by yourself. See, it's hard because you don't want to appear so available. Women see it as desperate, or "creepy" (God, I HATE that shaming word). However, you need to occasionally show your face and flirt during those occasions. It's a fine balancing act, and imo, is not worth the effort. Most of the time you end up looking like every other chump. Use your time/energy elsewhere.

Also, props on getting out of your comfort zone.

[Oblivion77]

(12-15-2008 04:00 AM)X-Factor Wrote:  

I'd like to add a note about the hired gun/waitress.

They're a tough nut to crack. You shouldn't have gone to that same bar the next night, especially by yourself. See, it's hard because you don't want to appear so available. Women see it as desperate, or "creepy" (God, I HATE that shaming word). However, you need to occasionally show your face and flirt during those occasions. It's a fine balancing act, and imo, is not worth the effort. Most of the time you end up looking like every other chump. Use your time/energy elsewhere.

Also, props on getting out of your comfort zone.

Thanks for the suggestion.
I agree with you about the risk of being overly available, ergo not appealing to her (especially if showing up alone).

I'm frankly not that focused on the waitress anymore and tempted to just move on.

What I'm doing though, is this: I befriended another waitress that works at that bar.
She is quite grabby, cute, and keeps saying I should bring her to Italy for the holidays, lol.
Who knows, maybe getting pre-approved by this one might lead to further options with the one I like/prefer.

Otherwise if I go back there I'll go with a winggirl.
That might help too.

Getting out of the comfort zone was very good, liberating.
I now approach and I have (nearly) stopped giving a damn about the outcome.
Just the other day I approached this extremely cute girl that works out at my gym (tons of guys are checking her out, lol).
The conversation didnt evolve as I would have wanted but neither she shut me down (she is super shy, and very likely young, like 20-21, ergo clueless).

In other words, very very often these girls, even very attractive ones, arent guarded or mean, they are simply unable to flirt back if you approach them and they didnt see you coming.

That's why I want to master better techniques, so that I maximize my chances when a girl isnt against it, but is unable to socially help.

[Hellbound]

The only way you'll get better is by investing time and putting your neck on the line. When I was in my teens a friend of a friend over here owned a strip club. I spent more time hanging out with strippers then going to lectures and it taught me a lot about talking to attractive women, who at first seem intimidating. Although I'm no Romeo I think I can carry the ball when engaged with a woman until I know she's interested or not. If she isn't I can handle it politely...but if she is interested and you're sure of it then you pretty much can't go wrong. Try not to spend too much of your time in dead-end conversations. And if you are in one try and use the time to learn more about using your body language.

Of course being in a different country gives you an invisible shield of confidence which makes you more appealing to women anyway.