[kimleebj]

A NYTimes article claims undergrad business students:

"spend less time preparing for class than do students in any other broad field, ... had the weakest gains during the first two years of college on a national test of writing and reasoning skills. And ... score lower [on the GMAT] than students in every other major."

In other words if you don't study, then you don't learn. It's too bad so many students deliberately choose easy majors and shirk work. Then they are surprised to find limited opportunities after graduation. What a waste.

The Default Major: Skating Through B-School

[Dash Global]

Depends on your level of intelligence and what field you specialize in.

Finance, Accounting, and Economics are certainly not EASY.

Management, Marketing, ect yes lol

[Gmac]

Who cares which major is the easiest? It's your ability and knowledge that will get you places, regardless of the major. Smart, disciplined people can make it in whatever field they choose.

[Tuthmosis]

Some of the dumbest motherfuckers I've ever known went to business school, even "prestigious" ones (like Wharton). I don't know if it's an easy major per se (although most people that went to it admit "they learned nothing"), but it's definitely a magnet for a lot of dudes that are lazy as sin, don't really care about learning shit, and just want to make money by being able to say they have an MBA.

It's probably the case that the bad apples are making it look bad for the serious ones, but that hasn't been my personal experience. Also, I think there is as dashglobal points out, a hierarchy within B-school. Not all the fields are the same, in terms of rigor. Economics is a totally different discipline.

[manilaguy]

I h8 it when people think I had a business major when in fact I did economics which is usually under social science department or under mathematics department.

In wharton they have this thing where undergrads wear business suits so it becomes part of their persona. GMAFB.

[Menace]

MBA is a really silly degree. It's a bunch of group work and management speak taught by people who seldom have any real business experience. Good schools include, Wharton, Harvard, and U Chicago (there are others of course). I-banks like GS only recruit from a small pool of schools (the same is true for consulting companies). The most important part of your b-school education is the contacts you make and the alumni network. The education part of it is secondary at best.

[hydrogonian]

(04-14-2011 02:31 PM)Menace Wrote:  

MBA is a really silly degree. It's a bunch of group work and management speak taught by people who seldom have any real business experience. Good schools include, Wharton, Harvard, and U Chicago (there are others of course). I-banks like GS only recruit from a small pool of schools (the same is true for consulting companies). The most important part of your b-school education is the contacts you make and the alumni network. The education part of it is secondary at best.

^^ this, and your not even supposed to go to B school until you've been working in business for a couple of years. And then, its ALL about the school. Go anywhere but one of the top B schools, and its worth drops exponentially.

You'd be better off getting a degree in something like Public Administration of you don't get into a top B school. (btw, which I think is a great degree - someone correct me if they have conflicting info)

I've heard that a lot of I bankers even skip B school now because they cant justify the cost in time for the return. Remember, that you supposed to get that initial I-bank or consultancy job out of undergrad, and not out of B school. Although, I guess that might happen occasionally.

Just skimming the brochures and reading all of the management speak is enough to make me immensely happy that I didn't take that route in life.

Also,that article is talking about "B-school" as an undergrad. That degree doesn't get much respect, as in business it is widely held that any B-school education isn't worth much until you've worked a few years. "B-school" is your MBA.

[Kickb]

hmm im a business major. I think im going to switch to accounting though. maybe ill go the Public relations route.


Of course i could always become a chiropractor or radiology tech and make some decent money while i develop some biz on the internet

[hydrogonian]

Kickboxer, my advice to you is to first, don't even think about Public Relations. I think it might be one of the only things more worthless than a business school undergrad. My brother went PR.

Second, try to do something that makes you very competitive with only the undergrad. Those majors are few and far in-between.

Accounting is a good skill, but the field can be very difficult in terms of the work environment. I would do accounting, and then a grad degree in Public Administration. That would be an awesome combination of you want a nice government or nonprofit job.

My favorite major for undergrads is teaching. Its probably the all around best job that a person with a BA can get, unless your coming from an Ivy league and going to wall street. Government jobs are almost indisputably the best to get, and teaching is a rewarding government job. You can also teach abroad.

Anything medical is good too. I'm doing a second bachelors in communication disorders. But the classes aren't easy and you have to do well to get into grad school. Its great job security though if you can buckle down and do well. Research the rehab professions of PT, OT (not recommended), and SLP.

I wouldn't do chiropractic. To me, its too big a risk of time and money compared to what you have to do after school to be successful. If you think that you could hack chiropractic school, just go and become a dentist instead and enjoy a lot more job security and business opportunity.

Programming can be good too if you keep developing your skillset out of school, and especially if you live in the right area of the country where work is abundant. Oldnemesis is one of the guys on here to talk to about that. There was recently an extensive thread on it.

[Kickb]

Oh man that's some good advice, most deff going to take it into consideration.

[Samseau]

If I could do it all over again I'd do computer science/programming. My buddy made 60K right out of college, and has been since offered with 110K jobs by Google in New York.


He also sits in a cubicle for 40 hours a week but only works 15 of them. He trades penny stocks all day and reads shit on the internet while waiting for his boss to let him go.

[glassjawed]

I studied business and thought it was easy as hell. I didn´t care too much for serious studies though.

[Menace]

You want a good undergrad major and career? Try becoming a Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist. This will require a BSc of some kind or bachelors of nursing. Then you go to nursing school to become an NA. You can make six figures starting out, and your job is never going to be outsourced. In nursing school you will have a deep pool of punani you can tap into, and being an NA is fairly no homo, to the extent you're worried about this stuff. Nursing school is 2 years I think.

Another option is physician assistant. However, for both of these you need to be somewhat decent at science.

Both options will give you good quality of life (you're not an MD on call) and a decent salary.

[UrbanNerd]

(04-15-2011 08:19 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

If I could do it all over again I'd do computer science/programming. My buddy made 60K right out of college, and has been since offered with 110K jobs by Google in New York.


He also sits in a cubicle for 40 hours a week but only works 15 of them. He trades penny stocks all day and reads shit on the internet while waiting for his boss to let him go.

Sounds like me. I have been in software engineering for close to 20 years and have never regretted it. With the right skill-set there is no competition for jobs, you get called be recruiters all day for new jobs and your bosses treat you nice because they know you can leave them.

Just to be even more "secure", I went and allowed my life to be open to the government and now have a security clearance. That comes with $50K/year on top of whatever you made in the private sector.

I cannot recall the last time I worked a full 40 hours.

[hydrogonian]

Quote:

You want a good undergrad major and career? Try becoming a Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist.

Good carer, but most definitely not a undergrad career. Its a long road to become an anesthetist. First, I believe that you need a full BSc in nursing, which is a longer road than an RN. Then you need at least two years in critical care nursing, and then you will spend at least two more years in very intense school to be an an anesthetist. That's at least 6 yeas from start to finish if you already have a BA, if everything goes well (you can get a critical care job out of school), you can get into grad school, and you don't take time off or take extra time working.

Quote:

Another option is physician assistant. However, for both of these you need to be somewhat decent at science.

Yeah, you need all of the same undergrad sciences that an MD needs, you need to take the MCAT (the same as students need to get into standard med school - and its expensive to take - I think around 5K from start to finish), you need two years of work experience in health-care (being an EMT is probably the easiest way to get experience), and then its two years of very intense grad school. Also a good career, but definitely not an undergrad only option and a long path if your starting from nothing but a BA (at least 6 years). I would be very tempted to just do an MD (only two more years of school) if I was going to go to all of the trouble to qualify for Phys. Asst. school.

Quote:

Both options will give you good quality of life (you're not an MD on call) and a decent salary.

True. I think that nurse anesthetist is the most lucrative at an average salary of between 130 and 170k, I believe.

[Samseau]

(04-16-2011 06:50 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

(04-15-2011 08:19 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

If I could do it all over again I'd do computer science/programming. My buddy made 60K right out of college, and has been since offered with 110K jobs by Google in New York.


He also sits in a cubicle for 40 hours a week but only works 15 of them. He trades penny stocks all day and reads shit on the internet while waiting for his boss to let him go.

Sounds like me. I have been in software engineering for close to 20 years and have never regretted it. With the right skill-set there is no competition for jobs, you get called be recruiters all day for new jobs and your bosses treat you nice because they know you can leave them.

Just to be even more "secure", I went and allowed my life to be open to the government and now have a security clearance. That comes with $50K/year on top of whatever you made in the private sector.

I cannot recall the last time I worked a full 40 hours.

I'm still young enough to change career paths. Would you recommend it? How should I do something like this?

[UrbanNerd]

(04-17-2011 06:41 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(04-16-2011 06:50 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

(04-15-2011 08:19 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

If I could do it all over again I'd do computer science/programming. My buddy made 60K right out of college, and has been since offered with 110K jobs by Google in New York.


He also sits in a cubicle for 40 hours a week but only works 15 of them. He trades penny stocks all day and reads shit on the internet while waiting for his boss to let him go.

Sounds like me. I have been in software engineering for close to 20 years and have never regretted it. With the right skill-set there is no competition for jobs, you get called be recruiters all day for new jobs and your bosses treat you nice because they know you can leave them.

Just to be even more "secure", I went and allowed my life to be open to the government and now have a security clearance. That comes with $50K/year on top of whatever you made in the private sector.

I cannot recall the last time I worked a full 40 hours.

I'm still young enough to change career paths. Would you recommend it? How should I do something like this?

The key about getting into software engineering is that one really does not need a computer science degree. You just need certain courses of the computer science program to best prepare you. If you are talking college courses, the following can be taken as electives. I was a Math major so it was pretty easy for me to include the following courses:

Introductory Programming I (Java or C++)
Introductory Programming II (Java or C++)
Algorithms
Data Structures
Theory of Programming Languages
Operating Systems
Database Systems
Computer Networks
Computer Security/Information Assurance
Software Engineering

That is about 30 college credits. On top of a degree, one needs to keep their skills sharp which can be done with some I.T. certifications. Now once can try get the knowledge from the above courses only through I.T. certifications with no degree but keep in mind that some promotions and higher-level software positions are still tied to academics. Yes, you can still be employed without the degree but employers can always hold the "no BA/BS degree" over your head and not give you top dollar and/or promotions.

[Samseau]

(04-17-2011 11:13 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

(04-17-2011 06:41 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(04-16-2011 06:50 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

(04-15-2011 08:19 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

If I could do it all over again I'd do computer science/programming. My buddy made 60K right out of college, and has been since offered with 110K jobs by Google in New York.


He also sits in a cubicle for 40 hours a week but only works 15 of them. He trades penny stocks all day and reads shit on the internet while waiting for his boss to let him go.

Sounds like me. I have been in software engineering for close to 20 years and have never regretted it. With the right skill-set there is no competition for jobs, you get called be recruiters all day for new jobs and your bosses treat you nice because they know you can leave them.

Just to be even more "secure", I went and allowed my life to be open to the government and now have a security clearance. That comes with $50K/year on top of whatever you made in the private sector.

I cannot recall the last time I worked a full 40 hours.

I'm still young enough to change career paths. Would you recommend it? How should I do something like this?

The key about getting into software engineering is that one really does not need a computer science degree. You just need certain courses of the computer science program to best prepare you. If you are talking college courses, the following can be taken as electives. I was a Math major so it was pretty easy for me to include the following courses:

Introductory Programming I (Java or C++)
Introductory Programming II (Java or C++)
Algorithms
Data Structures
Theory of Programming Languages
Operating Systems
Database Systems
Computer Networks
Computer Security/Information Assurance
Software Engineering

That is about 30 college credits. On top of a degree, one needs to keep their skills sharp which can be done with some I.T. certifications. Now once can try get the knowledge from the above courses only through I.T. certifications with no degree but keep in mind that some promotions and higher-level software positions are still tied to academics. Yes, you can still be employed without the degree but employers can always hold the "no BA/BS degree" over your head and not give you top dollar and/or promotions.

I have a degree, it's just not in computer science. Do you think I could just learn this shizz by myself and then try to get a job somewhere?

[Agent_GQ]

(04-17-2011 11:13 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

(04-17-2011 06:41 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(04-16-2011 06:50 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

(04-15-2011 08:19 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

If I could do it all over again I'd do computer science/programming. My buddy made 60K right out of college, and has been since offered with 110K jobs by Google in New York.


He also sits in a cubicle for 40 hours a week but only works 15 of them. He trades penny stocks all day and reads shit on the internet while waiting for his boss to let him go.

Sounds like me. I have been in software engineering for close to 20 years and have never regretted it. With the right skill-set there is no competition for jobs, you get called be recruiters all day for new jobs and your bosses treat you nice because they know you can leave them.

Just to be even more "secure", I went and allowed my life to be open to the government and now have a security clearance. That comes with $50K/year on top of whatever you made in the private sector.

I cannot recall the last time I worked a full 40 hours.

I'm still young enough to change career paths. Would you recommend it? How should I do something like this?

The key about getting into software engineering is that one really does not need a computer science degree. You just need certain courses of the computer science program to best prepare you. If you are talking college courses, the following can be taken as electives. I was a Math major so it was pretty easy for me to include the following courses:

Introductory Programming I (Java or C++)
Introductory Programming II (Java or C++)
Algorithms
Data Structures
Theory of Programming Languages
Operating Systems
Database Systems
Computer Networks
Computer Security/Information Assurance
Software Engineering

That is about 30 college credits. On top of a degree, one needs to keep their skills sharp which can be done with some I.T. certifications. Now once can try get the knowledge from the above courses only through I.T. certifications with no degree but keep in mind that some promotions and higher-level software positions are still tied to academics. Yes, you can still be employed without the degree but employers can always hold the "no BA/BS degree" over your head and not give you top dollar and/or promotions.

Great information UrbanNerd, thanks for posting it.

[Irminsul]

(04-18-2011 11:53 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

I have a degree, it's just not in computer science. Do you think I could just learn this shizz by myself and then try to get a job somewhere?

I would also like to know the answer to this. I already can program at the "MATLAB" level, and I don't really doubt that I could learn all this stuff, but would an employer accept that?

[Kickb]

Alright I have changed courses. I'm no longer a bizz major. I'm going to be a pharmacist. My company will pay for all my schooling and give me a job when I graduate. It's six more years of school but I got time

[hydrogonian]

(04-21-2011 01:46 AM)kickboxer Wrote:  

Alright I have changed courses. I'm no longer a bizz major. I'm going to be a pharmacist. My company will pay for all my schooling and give me a job when I graduate. It's six more years of school but I got time

holy shit man, that's quite a change. You'll make some great money. That's a great deal that your company is offering you. That'll be well over 100k in tuition that they are paying for.

Does that mean that you will still work for them while in school? Working and going to pharm school will be 'hectic' to say the least.

You've thought over the work reality and your cool with it? Filling scrips for thirty years? If so, like I said, great money.

I know one pharmacist. The sister of a friends wife. She's single and lives in a huge balla house by herself. I'm always trying to get in there, but I think her sister is probably c-blocking me because she's heard me talk about her money. I don't blame her.

[Kickb]

yeah i realize pharmacy school is very challenging, i think ill be able to do it though. I need to start getting A's in all of my classes. Up until now i have been able to make B's without studying too much but thats all about to change. Time to work hard as balls

The work is great once you get out. i'd only work 40 hours a week and make over six figures

[CJ]

As a business major (but hey at least I was an econ minor) I can tell you that engineering is the way to go. Depending on what type of engineering you go into you can pretty much write your own ticket for what you want to get paid.

I'm thinking about going back to getting a teaching job, so I can have all that free time. Plus, tormenting students by tricking them into thinking one test counts for everything or one paper will make or break you for getting into college sounds like fun to me.

[playa_with_a_passport]

(04-18-2011 11:53 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(04-17-2011 11:13 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

(04-17-2011 06:41 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(04-16-2011 06:50 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

(04-15-2011 08:19 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

If I could do it all over again I'd do computer science/programming. My buddy made 60K right out of college, and has been since offered with 110K jobs by Google in New York.


He also sits in a cubicle for 40 hours a week but only works 15 of them. He trades penny stocks all day and reads shit on the internet while waiting for his boss to let him go.

Sounds like me. I have been in software engineering for close to 20 years and have never regretted it. With the right skill-set there is no competition for jobs, you get called be recruiters all day for new jobs and your bosses treat you nice because they know you can leave them.

Just to be even more "secure", I went and allowed my life to be open to the government and now have a security clearance. That comes with $50K/year on top of whatever you made in the private sector.

I cannot recall the last time I worked a full 40 hours.

I'm still young enough to change career paths. Would you recommend it? How should I do something like this?

The key about getting into software engineering is that one really does not need a computer science degree. You just need certain courses of the computer science program to best prepare you. If you are talking college courses, the following can be taken as electives. I was a Math major so it was pretty easy for me to include the following courses:

Introductory Programming I (Java or C++)
Introductory Programming II (Java or C++)
Algorithms
Data Structures
Theory of Programming Languages
Operating Systems
Database Systems
Computer Networks
Computer Security/Information Assurance
Software Engineering

That is about 30 college credits. On top of a degree, one needs to keep their skills sharp which can be done with some I.T. certifications. Now once can try get the knowledge from the above courses only through I.T. certifications with no degree but keep in mind that some promotions and higher-level software positions are still tied to academics. Yes, you can still be employed without the degree but employers can always hold the "no BA/BS degree" over your head and not give you top dollar and/or promotions.

I have a degree, it's just not in computer science. Do you think I could just learn this shizz by myself and then try to get a job somewhere?

Both my undergrad and grad degrees are in Comp Sci. The experiences of Samseau's buddy and Urbannerd are not typical. For every IT guy making that kind of money in IT there are at least 10 former IT guys who are either unemployed or mixing paint at your local Home Depot.
The golden age of IT was from 1980's to up to the end of the dot com era. I.T. was skull fucked by Bush when he allowed IT companies to import HB1 visa Indian tech workers and engineers en masse. Why would IBM hire an American programmer and pay him $70K a year when they can get 4 Indians for that same price and hold their immigration status over their heads? That's capitalism for ya!!! Also, I don't know any fortune 500 company that will hired somebody in IT unless you have a degree in Computer Science from an accredited school(this leaves out the Devry's, ITT's, University of Phoenixes, etc).Unless your Comp Sci degree is from Stamford or MIT I would be very impressed if you can get a job at Best Buy "Geek Squad" making $11 an hour let alone get hired by Google. The above also applies to engineers.

If I was a young buck again, I would look for professions that can't be outsourced. I would go to school for anything health care related short of a MD. Nursing, Respiratory therapy, Pharmacist, Radiology, Physician assistant. Also, I would try harder to get into union apprenticeships like plumbing, electrician, carpenter, steel worker, mason, boiler maker. There's also Teaching and civil service even thought it looks like the system have decided that those workers have it too good and want to destroy those jobs just like they did to dock,factory, auto, airlines and IT workers. This country is heading in the direction of the Saudi Arabia where 95% of the population is going to be employed servicing the top 5% and you'll get paid just enough to have 3 squares and a cot.