[Snowplow]

Not too long ago I was walking through my neighborhood which is also home to a college university in Chicago. As I'm going along I spot a poster that reads "JOIN THE SOCIALIST PARTY." I start reading the rest and it is the typical bullshit you would expect; bring down the 1%, feminism, "undocumented immigrant" rights, the lower class, blah blah blah. So after reading it and having a chuckle, I tore it down. Find a second poster and tear that one down. Just as that happened a guy who I assume is a student walks up and we have an exchange.

Sjw: Hey man, did you just tear down that poster?
Me: Sure did.
sjw: Was that a socialist poster?
Me: Yeah. Why?
Sjw: What's your problem with socialists?
Me: Cause we don't need them or any other parasites ruining this country.
Sjw: You're being very closed minded. Besides you shouldn't be tearing down posters.
Me: So fucking sue me.
I can see he was intimidated because he wouldn't look me in the eye and would back away.

Now these posters were on city property, and I didn't see a university/city stamp approving these posters to be up. I know they have the 1st amendment right, but can I face legal trouble for tearing them down?

Colleges are already leftist breeding grounds and seeing this only adds to their momentum. I aim to slow it down as best I can. I plan on attending some of their meetings to do some recon and better understand the enemy before I fully engage.

What are your thoughts on this?

[Deluge]

Colleges may buy into Critical Theory and Progressivism hook line and sinker but few are actually Socialists. They may pay lip service to the class struggle but at the end of the day they're upper-middle class "champagne socialists" who've made their peace with the market economy and advocate liberal social issues and social democracy. They care little for protectionism or the union movement (unless they're a teacher for the later) because they benefit little from it. This is what we call the "New Left" of the 60's onwards.

Socialists are the "Old Left". Today they do support things like gay marriage etc. but they don't actually talk about these typical modern leftie issues much if at all. They're still wielded to the class struggle, the union movement and above all Palestine. Compared to the "New Left" they are much more likely to be white working class or Arab kids.

My university is dominated by the centre-left progressives and has a very small but very active and visible Socialist contingent that's always annoying people trying to sell their Socialist magazines or sign petitions about refugees or Palestine. The progressives (who are the huge majority) hate the Socialists with a vengeance, as does the university administration and the general student body, because they are all round fucking pricks regardless of their idiotic political views.

Be warned about getting in their faces though, you wouldn't think it from looking at them but these Socialist's aren't afraid to get violent and are generally very hateful people. Palestine especially gets them into a rage and there's been instances of them beating up members of the Jewish Students Society as well as not letting them into their events. Believing fervently in "the revolution" and thinking that the sky is perpetually falling down makes them erratic human beings.

[Sp5]

Why bother? Socialist organizations have been a feature of university life in the West for about 100 years now. Getting pissed off about What Other People Say is futile. No need to play junior G-man and go to their meetings, time would be better spent reading and studying, at the gym, or approaching.

I'm in favor of everyone having their say within the First Amendment framework.

Tearing down posters that don't personally target you is a form of authoritarian white-knighting.

[Snowplow]

I like that term champagne socialist.

So far I've noticed them to be very aggressive in argument, never physical yet. About a year ago I went to the bar with a friend and group of girls. He was out of work and I was paying for his drinks. Occasionally I'd make a poor joke at him busting his balls. So I go out to have a smoke and this old guy starts screaming at me. He said I'm not welcome here cause I'm a "repugnant 1%er." I informed him I live in the neighborhood and I'm still free to drink wherever I want. So he goes even more ballistic and spouts off all this OWS crap at me like I'm the CEO of Goldman Sachs. I casually inform him that I'm a blue collar guy and thought I was living in the most diverse and most accepting neighborhood of Chicago. He was in a bit of shock that I was calling him out. The coup de grâce was when I told him, "I'm not responsible for your poor life decisions or the reasons you can't manage your own money. Now if you get one more inch closer to my face I'll knock your ass to the ground."
That shut him up real quick.

My problem is that I'm seeing if left unchecked it will run rampant. Most just roll their eyes or jump on the bandwagon. I want to slow this up and help others realize you can be against it. We talk about it hear how much it hurts society and I'm taking small steps in helping prevent it's spread.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

I think you are dead wrong to tear down political posters.

This is the kind of thing feminists in Toronto do and leftist groups at colleges do. It's a narrow-minded way to silence the opposition.

When you do that, it send the message that you have no valid counter-argument and all you can do to get your point across is "shush" people who disagree with you.

In short, this is a form of censorship.

And it's the exact thing we fight against when feminists or other leftist groups do it (i.e. the banning of "Blurred Lines" at UK universities, the removal of "triggering" academic material, etc.). Therefore, it's also wrong when someone here does it. In fact, I'd say it's more wrong when someone here does it since a lot of what we push for is the expression of freedom of speech, not the restraining of it.

One of the best things about this forum and Return of Kings (and the manosphere in general) is that we tend to take the high road when it comes to matters like freedom of speech. The unofficial policy seems to be "When it doubt, more freedom and not less is better."

Thanks to your actions and your need to post about it in this public forum we now look as petty as those we fight against.

The next time someone here rails against feminist censorship and tries to argue "We engage the opposition and do not believe in silencing them," your post will undo their argument.

This reminds me of when I was editor-in-chief of my college newspaper and various political groups on campus (mostly leftists) would dump entire issues of the paper in the trash when they were delivered in the morning so people couldn't read them. They didn't want people reading opposing points of view -- and were spurred on by socialist-oriented college professors.

Finally, your statement that colleges are "leftist breeding grounds" is no reason to remove a poster. Rather, it's a reason to counter that with good writing that will bring people over to the other side.

Ironically, you probably can't face legal troubles for tearing them down since those laws are never enforced to keep the hysterical feminists who do this out of jail. Not good company to be in.

[Phoenix]

Taking down posters is as much your freedom of speech, as it is theirs to put them up. You could also poster over it with a 'Leftism is social degeneration' poster if you wanted. If its stuck on public property, its fair game.

[Snowplow]

(11-07-2014 07:06 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  

Why bother? Socialist organizations have been a feature of university life in the West for about 100 years now. Getting pissed off about What Other People Say is futile. No need to play junior G-man and go to their meetings, time would be better spent reading and studying, at the gym, or approaching.

And as an American citizen it does target me and my well being. Socialist actively try to redistribute wealth, and I'm not gonna be liking that too much when I gotta help out the lazy.

I'm in favor of everyone having their say within the First Amendment framework.

Tearing down posters that don't personally target you is a form of authoritarian white-knighting.

I spend time reading, going to the gym, hiking and other hobbies to better myself. And I too am in favor of freedom of speech. But we are all aware of how much they try to shut us up when we use fact and logic. Just look at the gamergate shit going on. You say leave it alone and focus on your self, and I am sure they would love if everyone stayed busy and let them finish their agenda. For the record Sp5 I'm not calling you one of them, but it's that kinda mentality that let's stuff slip by.

[Snowplow]

(11-07-2014 07:31 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

I think you are dead wrong to tear down political posters.

This is the kind of thing feminists in Toronto do and leftist groups at colleges do. It's a narrow-minded way to silence the opposition.

When you do that, it send the message that you have no valid counter-argument and all you can do to get your point across is "shush" people who disagree with you.

In short, this is a form of censorship.

And it's the exact thing we fight against when feminists or other leftist groups do it (i.e. the banning of "Blurred Lines" at UK universities, the removal of "triggering" academic material, etc.). Therefore, it's also wrong when someone here does it. In fact, I'd say it's more wrong when someone here does it since a lot of what we push for is the expression of freedom of speech, not the restraining of it.

One of the best things about this forum and Return of Kings (and the manosphere in general) is that we tend to take the high road when it comes to matters like freedom of speech. The unofficial policy seems to be "When it doubt, more freedom and not less is better."

Thanks to your actions and your need to post about it in this public forum we now look as petty as those we fight against.

The next time someone here rails against feminist censorship and tries to argue "We engage the opposition and do not believe in silencing them," your post will undo their argument.

This reminds me of when I was editor-in-chief of my college newspaper and various political groups on campus (mostly leftists) would dump entire issues of the paper in the trash when they were delivered in the morning so people couldn't read them. They didn't want people reading opposing points of view -- and were spurred on by socialist-oriented college professors.

Finally, your statement that colleges are "leftist breeding grounds" is no reason to remove a poster. Rather, it's a reason to counter that with good writing that will bring people over to the other side.

Ironically, you probably can't face legal troubles for tearing them down since those laws are never enforced to keep the hysterical feminists who do this out of jail. Not good company to be in.

I see your point, and very well written. I can get behind that. I see where I was wrong in my actions.
The only thing I disagree with is the part in bold. If anything, that is on me and not the entire forum.

[JWLZG]

(11-07-2014 06:01 AM)Snowplow Wrote:  

Now these posters were on city property, and I didn't see a university/city stamp approving these posters to be up. I know they have the 1st amendment right, but can I face legal trouble for tearing them down?

Colleges are already leftist breeding grounds and seeing this only adds to their momentum. I aim to slow it down as best I can. I plan on attending some of their meetings to do some recon and better understand the enemy before I fully engage.

What are your thoughts on this?

I'm not sure about the necessity of your Freikorps-style counterinsurgency aspirations. Contrary to what many conservatives believe, universities, at least in Australia and Europe, aren't some sort of Socialist production-line, or "left-wing breeding grounds" as you put it.

Universities are by definition purposed to critique the established status quo, question prevailing ideas and push away from the old order; yes, people with a university education tend to lean more towards the left -- but it would be a massive fallacy to lump them all as degenerate Socialists.

The majority of lefties on campus are what I'd call fairweather-leftists -- they may adhere to SWPL progressive culture, and express progressive leanings if quizzed, maybe they might turn up at the odd protest or three; but really aren't as vocal or impassioned as their activist and hack friends might be.
Still more really don't give a shit. I go to a technical university and you can see a pretty clear divide between those who'd buy into the whole left-right discourse and those who couldn't care less.

Back to your original question. Did they have the council's or city's approval to be up? I'm not versed in U.S. law but I'd hedge a bet that they didn't have a right to be up in the first place if not.
I actually did much the same on occasion -- when I needed spare paper -- years back when my views were a bit more to the right. They're all over campus though so any such efforts were really futile. On occasion, I've seen them on city property too -- at least 5km from campus.

I'm in the same city as Deluge and that band of Socialists -- of the Trotskyist persuasion -- are actually active at all our universities. Everyone knows that they're behind those posters and consequently no-one really gives a shit about them. They're a bunch of violent revolutionaries whose tactics include picketing and verbally assailing guests to an address by a Liberal Minister on campus, harassing Jewish students who were passing by one of their 'talks', and staging a sit-in whereby they smashed down the door of our Vice-Chancellor's office with an axe (which our Student Union was billed for) some years back.

[scorpion]

I agree with DOBA in theory, and certainly from an idealistic perspective. The problem is that the left has no such idealism, and thinks nothing of censorship and intimidation of this type. So if you refuse to deploy their own tactics against them, you are ceding them an enormous advantage. This is a major reason the left has been so successful over the past several decades.

Personally, Snowplow, I think you were right to tear it down. These leftists need to know that there are still men out there who strongly oppose their agenda. Men who will look them in the eye and curse them to their face, not hide behind a snarky Twitter hashtag.

If your enemy is obviously without honor or scruples, then you're a fool if you extend him the courtesies due to an honorable opponent. You must be prepared to crush him by any means necessary, because that's exactly what he is trying to do to you, whether you realize it or not. And if you don't realize that, and cling to some notion of idealism, it will soon be too late for you, because he will have beaten you with some underhanded tactic while you were following the rules.

[The Reactionary Tree]

The progressive male is a sniveling contemptible excuse for a man. You probably triggered him. He probably went over to his Grimace-sized girlfriends house to cry about and get pegged.

[Sombro]

I've done a lot of public postering over the years, and realize I'm fair game.
But rather than tear down others' posters I'd rather "embellish" what they already have posted.
In the case of a socialist poster, scrawling it with "parasites" and "losers" is my preferred method.

Public ridicule of your target is much more effective than outright censorship.

[Lemmo]

(11-07-2014 06:01 AM)Snowplow Wrote:  

Not too long ago I was walking through my neighborhood which is also home to a college university in Chicago. As I'm going along I spot a poster that reads "JOIN THE SOCIALIST PARTY." I start reading the rest and it is the typical bullshit you would expect; bring down the 1%, feminism, "undocumented immigrant" rights, the lower class, blah blah blah. So after reading it and having a chuckle, I tore it down. Find a second poster and tear that one down. Just as that happened a guy who I assume is a student walks up and we have an exchange.

Sjw: Hey man, did you just tear down that poster?
Me: Sure did.
sjw: Was that a socialist poster?
Me: Yeah. Why?
Sjw: What's your problem with socialists?
Me: Cause we don't need them or any other parasites ruining this country.
Sjw: You're being very closed minded. Besides you shouldn't be tearing down posters.
Me: So fucking sue me.
I can see he was intimidated because he wouldn't look me in the eye and would back away.

Now these posters were on city property, and I didn't see a university/city stamp approving these posters to be up. I know they have the 1st amendment right, but can I face legal trouble for tearing them down?

Colleges are already leftist breeding grounds and seeing this only adds to their momentum. I aim to slow it down as best I can. I plan on attending some of their meetings to do some recon and better understand the enemy before I fully engage.

What are your thoughts on this?

Meh. Just don't get caught. Things like due process take a back seat to thought crime at universities so they wouldn't limit themselves to the legal process if they caught you.

[freeuser]

I hate socialism, but I´m generally against any form of censorship. I don´t think it´s a good idea to tear down a poster, just because you disagree with their ideas. To me this is like burning a copy of 1984. It goes against freedom of speech. At first it might seem innocuous, but when you realize it, it´s too late and you end up living in a society like the one in Fahrenheit 451. This is why freedom of speech is such a holy and important right.

[Snowplow]

(11-07-2014 08:01 AM)scorpion Wrote:  

I agree with DOBA in theory, and certainly from an idealistic perspective. The problem is that the left has no such idealism, and thinks nothing of censorship and intimidation of this type. So if you refuse to deploy their own tactics against them, you are ceding them an enormous advantage. This is a major reason the left has been so successful over the past several decades.

Personally, Snowplow, I think you were right to tear it down. These leftists need to know that there are still men out there who strongly oppose their agenda. Men who will look them in the eye and curse them to their face, not hide behind a snarky Twitter hashtag.

If your enemy is obviously without honor or scruples, then you're a fool if you extend him the courtesies due to an honorable opponent. You must be prepared to crush him by any means necessary, because that's exactly what he is trying to do to you, whether you realize it or not. And if you don't realize that, and cling to some notion of idealism, it will soon be too late for you, because he will have beaten you with some underhanded tactic while you were following the rules.

After seeing some of the replies on this, I'm really with Scorpion on this. I respect DOBA's opinion and I see what he was getting at, but I feel more can be done fighting them with their own tactics. Scorpion pointed out something that I forgot,

Quote:

If your enemy is obviously without honor or scruples, then you're a fool if you extend him the courtesies due to an honorable opponent. You must be prepared to crush him by any means necessary, because that's exactly what he is trying to do to you, whether you realize it or not.

With any of you in disagreement, I'd treat you like an honorable opponent. But when it comes to those type of scum, all bets are off.

Scorpion, thank you for the reminder. I have always agreed with your views and commentary about societal cancer and how to deal with it.

[TheWastelander]

The problem here is moreso your target than anything else. The Socialist Party and the SDS (which were the openly radical leftist assholes on my campus) aren't the ones with power in this country. They're too forward with their aims and goals.

The SWPL SJW, cultural marxist crowd is far more insidious.

Still, I remember wanting to beat the crap out of some of the SDS folks during their protests. They vandalized a military recruiting station down the street and were openly Commie-worshiping degenerates.

Glad I didn't, though. Too much to lose compared to those nobodies, who really had nothing going on for themselves.

[Lemmo]

(11-07-2014 09:47 AM)Snowplow Wrote:  

(11-07-2014 08:01 AM)scorpion Wrote:  

I agree with DOBA in theory, and certainly from an idealistic perspective. The problem is that the left has no such idealism, and thinks nothing of censorship and intimidation of this type. So if you refuse to deploy their own tactics against them, you are ceding them an enormous advantage. This is a major reason the left has been so successful over the past several decades.

Personally, Snowplow, I think you were right to tear it down. These leftists need to know that there are still men out there who strongly oppose their agenda. Men who will look them in the eye and curse them to their face, not hide behind a snarky Twitter hashtag.

If your enemy is obviously without honor or scruples, then you're a fool if you extend him the courtesies due to an honorable opponent. You must be prepared to crush him by any means necessary, because that's exactly what he is trying to do to you, whether you realize it or not. And if you don't realize that, and cling to some notion of idealism, it will soon be too late for you, because he will have beaten you with some underhanded tactic while you were following the rules.

After seeing some of the replies on this, I'm really with Scorpion on this. I respect DOBA's opinion and I see what he was getting at, but I feel more can be done fighting them with their own tactics. Scorpion pointed out something that I forgot,

Quote:

If your enemy is obviously without honor or scruples, then you're a fool if you extend him the courtesies due to an honorable opponent. You must be prepared to crush him by any means necessary, because that's exactly what he is trying to do to you, whether you realize it or not.

With any of you in disagreement, I'd treat you like an honorable opponent. But when it comes to those type of scum, all bets are off.

Scorpion, thank you for the reminder. I have always agreed with your views and commentary about societal cancer and how to deal with it.

Exactly. The high road is overrated unless your opponent is generally following the same rules. Otherwise, you are just opposing them with one hand tied behind your back. How many leftist policies of the last 50 years have been the result of open and honest debate and majority approval? And see how interested the university is in making sure that your offices aren't vandalized, your posters aren't disturbed, your publications aren't destroyed, your meetings are allowed to be held and your speakers aren't shouted down. They will be at best indifferent and, more likely, openly siding with your opponents.

[TheWastelander]

Here's the thing, though: by tearing down the posters what are you actually accomplishing?

They're just going to put another one up.

Anti-leftist guerilla street art and posters would be more effective, I think.

Sabo is pretty good at that sort of thing but he's a little too focused on Dem politicians rather than attacking their ideology.

That means there's a niche to be filled there.

If I were any good at painting or drawing I'd probably give it a try.

[heavy]

I'd say the tearing down, posting the thread, and subsequent responses is a great example of why I love RVF. Agreement, disagreement, and overall great reflection on what you did.

I can't blame you, but I don't think it's an efficient way of combating their stupidity. It could do just as much bad as good. That said, I'm not sure there is an good way of combating their stupidity.

“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

[SteveMcMahon]

I understand the OP's annoyance at this stuff, but look at it this way: what does tearing down their posters achieve?

Nothing.

It's not going to change anybody's mind. Quite the opposite in fact - it just gives the deluded socialists the idea that they're being taken seriously.

Comrades! The capitalist running dogs are sabotaging our attempts to liberate the proletariat! We must redouble our efforts!*

* (I have no idea if college socialists talk like that, but you get the idea)

If you're at college, or are college aged, and you want to annoy the socialists, don't rip down their posters. Troll them instead. They can withstand opposition, but they're incredibly thin skinned when it comes to ridicule.

But even better: I'd suggest ignoring them and spending your time on self-improvement and meeting girls. Time spent tangling with Marxist idiots is time better spent banging attractive girls with big tits.

The sort of females who join these Trotskyite cults are usually ratty-looking crazy-eyed bitches with the personal hygiene of a septic genital wart.

[Snowplow]

(11-07-2014 10:04 AM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

Here's the thing, though: by tearing down the posters what are you actually accomplishing?

They're just going to put another one up.

Anti-leftist guerilla street art and posters would be more effective, I think.

Sabo is pretty good at that sort of thing but he's a little too focused on Dem politicians rather than attacking their ideology.

That means there's a niche to be filled there.

If I were any good at painting or drawing I'd probably give it a try.

Damn. That guys artwork is awesome. I'm getting some ideas. Thanks for linking that!

[Deluge]

College socialist chicks don't look like hippies. They look like 90's grunge type hipster's. Short hair, septum piercings, black skinny jeans, black Doc Martens boots. Hippies are too chill to be Socialists fighting for the revolution.

[Wadsworth]

Way to go, OP, you are categorically in the wrong.

You've decided that it falls upon you to decide whose posters get to stay up and whose come down, that's regrettable, but pretty standard.

What I don't understand is how you believe that sets you apart from any other SJW.

(11-07-2014 07:26 AM)Snowplow Wrote:  

My problem is that I'm seeing if left unchecked it will run rampant.

That may be true, but that's exactly what the SJWs say about the things they don't like. The problem is when people appoint themselves morality tsars who have it within them to coordinate public opinion.

(11-07-2014 08:01 AM)scorpion Wrote:  

If your enemy is obviously without honor or scruples, then you're a fool if you extend him the courtesies due to an honorable opponent. You must be prepared to crush him by any means necessary, because that's exactly what he is trying to do to you, whether you realize it or not. And if you don't realize that, and cling to some notion of idealism, it will soon be too late for you, because he will have beaten you with some underhanded tactic while you were following the rules.

You can decide for yourself who is honorable and who isn't. You can also decide for yourself what constitutes idealism and what doesn't. What you shouldn't do is use your own opinion on those matters to rationalize committing censorial acts.

You're either in favor of free speech or you aren't. Doing mental gymnastics to support censorship still amounts to censorship.

[Snowplow]

Fair enough. But we're not talking about some middle of the road lefty that put up a "hope and change" poster. We are talking about the lowest common denominator of social decay. Socialism has essentially brought us feminism, sjws, and helping along collapse of the west. How many threads are on this forum alone that point out how socialists and their ilk are ruining things for guys like us? I'm pretty sure majority of men here knew something was wrong with culture and society and found their way here to learn some game, and while learning that, figures out what is the cause.

As an American I did feel a little guilty for violating their right to free speech. But guess what, if it was up to them speech would be extremely limited. What sets me apart from being a SJW, is offline people know my standpoints, I don't hide behind hashtags, and I'm not doxxing the people who put up those posters. I will get in the face of any socialists and tell them they're wrong. The more we allow these cancers to operate unimpeded, more powerful they think they are. You can ride the high horse of morality, but I'll treat scum the way it needs to be treated.

[The Beast1]

Good job OP, you're one small rock pushing against a current of degenerates. I called out a leftist once when he said he was "only a little bit white". Guy was the most fair skinned you could imagine.

They've operated in a vacuum for too long. Someone has to speak up against them lest people don't realize there are alternatives to the current group speak.