[OSL]

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http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-sp...th-2014-11

Just finished reading this.

"The list (of psychopathic traits) includes: glibness and superficial charm, grandiose sense of self-worth, cunning/manipulative, pathological lying, emotional shallowness, callousness and lack of empathy, a tendency to boredom, impulsivity, criminal versatility, behavioural problems in early life, juvenile delinquency, and promiscuous sexual behaviour."


It's been almost a year since I was almost massively fucked out of a large investment due to the founder/CEO of a company lying through his teeth and manipulating me in various ways. Fortunately, my instincts eventually kicked in that something was very wrong and I pulled out of the situation.

However, I am still reeling from the experience and questioning how I could have let myself be suckered into the web of lies for as long as I did.

As such - I wanted to start this thread to see if anyone else has had the experience of being led on by a psychopath/sociopath, what your experiences were like, and what you learned from it.

Moreover, I'd like to see if you have practical tips and advice for how to identify and screen for sociopathic and psychopathic behavior in advance of committing in any way to such a person in a business context.

Please keep this thread specific to business - that is, please do not derail this thread to complain about women or feminists. This thread is about business relationships.

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[Old Fritz]

I've had first hand dealing with a sociopath. All I can say is that if you ever come across one; the best thing to do is to distance yourself. There is no way to really "win" against them.

As far as certain behavior and signs; I've noticed these

• They may outright tell you that they are a sociopath. It could either be in a joking way or they may toss it around
• You catch them lying consistently about simple things. This includes their name, place of birth, what they ate for breakfast, etc
• Several people that know the person better than you have only bad things to say. Stories about betrayal, compulsive lying, and more..
  

[OSL]

(11-02-2014 09:59 PM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

I've had first hand dealing with a sociopath. All I can say is that if you ever come across one; the best thing to do is to distance yourself. There is no way to really "win" against them.

As far as certain behavior and signs; I've noticed these

• They may outright tell you that they are a sociopath. It could either be in a joking way or they may toss it around
• You catch them lying consistently about simple things. This includes their name, place of birth, what they ate for breakfast, etc
• Several people that know the person better than you have only bad things to say. Stories about betrayal, compulsive lying, and more..
  

I've had first hand dealing with a sociopath. All I can say is that if you ever come across one; the best thing to do is to distance yourself. There is no way to really "win" against them.


This is certainly true. That's exactly what I did, although a lot of damage had already been done.

You catch them lying consistently about simple things. This includes their name, place of birth, what they ate for breakfast, etc

This is also definitely something I experienced. The odd thing is that he'd lie about things that wouldn't even benefit him in any way.

The most aggravating thing is that it would be very hard to catch him in a lie because he'd always engineer some way to get himself out of it through some loopholes or technicalities.

[tarquin]

Once you run into one or two, you will reevaluate how you deal with people. Don't let dealing with a psychopath remove your own humanity through paranoia. I think that is just as important as learning to spot one.

[Constitution45]

I second the comment above. I got screwed over by sociopathic business managers In china and had to leave the country. Also had a run in previously with another one but I won't go into too much detail as its more personal. As hard as it is, you have to try and keep your own humanity and stand grounded otherwise you will miss out on future opportunities. Best way to watch out, is to take notice of how people make you feel and identify whether or not that's because something they are doing or if its just yourself. Don't subcumb to flattery, or even outright acts of dominance over yourself.

[Sp5]

Hoarding of information. One way to test for a psychopath is to enlist the person in an effort to cooperate with another person or team. The psychopath will resist sharing information and cooperating.

Backbiting/ backstabbing. When you find you are being undermined in your absence.

[El Chinito loco]

Another fairly common one is complete lack of ability to admit fault. They will always assign blame on others if convenient or chalk it up as bad luck or unfortunate circumstances even if they caused a bad situation to occur.

They will also put on false modesty when they need to get something.

Sociopaths i've personally met also tend to be very class conscious. They love hierarchies it gives them a defined place and a top to strive for.

[Phoenix]

I think its important to separate dishonest people, sociopaths and psychopaths.

Dishonest people simply treat honesty as a factor - if they will get a better return by being dishonest, they are willing to do so. This is pretty common. You should never believe someone is honest until you have a track record, and never rely on honesty. Honesty has a long-term payoff, so always be extra-suspicious in one-off deals etc.

'The 48 Laws of Power', and 'Thinking Strategically' are good reads for this.

A sociopath is: "a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience". Most sociopaths will reveal this if you 'get them talking', and prod them in the direction of topics that would reveal their attitudes. This is what police interrogators often do - pretend to sympathize with the individual to get them to open up.
Another big tell is 'are they ever wrong?'. If they never seem to be wrong about anything, and always weasel it into them 'being right', that's a big red flag. I automatically distance myself from these people, including family members. A normal, healthy-minded individual can accept being wrong at least some of the time.

A psychopath is: "a person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behavior". These people will typically trigger a 'something is off' instinct if you see them or talk to them, and if they don't (highly functional psychopaths) their friends, lack thereof, or other peoples reaction to them can be a good gauge.

[OSL]

(11-03-2014 05:23 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

I think its important to separate dishonest people, sociopaths and psychopaths.

Dishonest people simply treat honesty as a factor - if they will get a better return by being dishonest, they are willing to do so. This is pretty common. You should never believe someone is honest until you have a track record, and never rely on honesty. Honesty has a long-term payoff, so always be extra-suspicious in one-off deals etc.

'The 48 Laws of Power', and 'Thinking Strategically' are good reads for this.

A sociopath is: "a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience". Most sociopaths will reveal this if you 'get them talking', and prod them in the direction of topics that would reveal their attitudes. This is what police interrogators often do - pretend to sympathize with the individual to get them to open up.

Another big tell is '[b]are they ever wrong?'. If they never seem to be wrong about anything, and always weasel it into them 'being right', that's a big red flag. I automatically distance myself from these people, including family members. A normal, healthy-minded individual can accept being wrong at least some of the time.
[/b]
A psychopath is: "a person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behavior". These people will typically trigger a 'something is off' instinct if you see them or talk to them, and if they don't (highly functional psychopaths) their friends, lack thereof, or other peoples reaction to them can be a good gauge.

This one was huge. Lying and manipulating the truth after the fact to try to get himself off the hook and blame it on me or others.

Also the strategy you mentioned of "Getting them Talking" is eventually how I was able to unravel the truth from a web of lies.

You nailed it here.

[OSL]

(11-03-2014 05:05 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  

Hoarding of information. One way to test for a psychopath is to enlist the person in an effort to cooperate with another person or team. The psychopath will resist sharing information and cooperating.

Backbiting/ backstabbing. When you find you are being undermined in your absence.

Yeah. Man, I really couldn't have said it better myself.

Or, rather, I feel like you guys are rattling off specific incidents that occurred while I was going through this debacle. It's almost eerie.

[WestIndianArchie]

(11-02-2014 09:05 PM)YMG Wrote:  

Please keep this thread specific to business - that is, please do not derail this thread to complain about women or feminists. This thread is about business relationships.

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My profession (white collar, office worker, for major corp) is half women.

But given the caveat, I can't really comment.

WIA

[Sp5]

(11-03-2014 05:46 AM)YMG Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 05:05 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  

Hoarding of information. One way to test for a psychopath is to enlist the person in an effort to cooperate with another person or team. The psychopath will resist sharing information and cooperating.

Backbiting/ backstabbing. When you find you are being undermined in your absence.

Yeah. Man, I really couldn't have said it better myself.

Or, rather, I feel like you guys are rattling off specific incidents that occurred while I was going through this debacle. It's almost eerie.

The first one, hoarding of information and unwillingness to cooperate is something that psychopaths usually can't help themselves from being.

The typical situation is when you know the psychopath has information that you need. You are working for common purposes in the same organization, and there is no valid reason for them not to give it to you. Nevertheless, they won't share it. If you try to nail them down, they make excuses and retaliate behind your back.

A term I heard in the military characterizes them: "one-way motherfuckers."

[tarquin]

Hoarding of information is a good one. Looking back on my experiences, I find other instances where these people acted as a gatekeeper without any particular motive or for motives contrary to the goals of everybody else. This behavior was often combined with deceit (did it behind my back). When confronted, these people attempt, with various success, to "gaslight." That is, they will lie and alter specific details so it seems as if you are mistaken. These are very convincing lies as the psychopath gives off no indications of the body language typically found when a person lies.

[DVY]

1) Enlisting you in their schemes to stab other people in the back ( and usually laugh about it)
2) Other people saying they are great people, but have "xxxx" problem. Usually money, sharing of resources, or ego. If you see it happen across the board, its not a 1-off
3) Extremely selfish
4) Lack of long-term friends or business partners. Constant switching of staff/friends
5) Token gestures of friendship, kindness and trust followed by huge favors (that are promptly unpaid and forgotten)
6) Extremely animated and fun to be around. The force-field mulitplier (aka Bill Clinton or Steve Jobs)
7) Drug and alcohol proclivities. Binge streaks....

[CJ_W]

(11-02-2014 09:05 PM)YMG Wrote:  

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http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-sp...th-2014-11


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Go golfing with anyone you do business with.

There is a reason that many a business deal/networking is discussed/done over a round of golf.

How you and your partner golf is a great tell on the kind of person they are. Do they follow the rules of golf? or do they pull stuff during golf? like not counting certain shots etc etc. There are tons of tells during golf that you can use to scope out the kind of person they are.

[micky]

Winning Through Intimidation by Robert Ringer is a great read on the subject.
He explains through personal experience how to avoid getting screwed

"There are only three types of people in the business world
Type 1: Lets you know that he’s out to get all of your chips. Then he tries to do just that.
Type 2: Assures you that he’s not interested in getting your chips. Then he tries to grab all of your chips anyway.
Type 3: Assures you that he’s not interested in getting your chips, and honestly means it. However, in the end, he tries to grab all of your chips anyway."