[Mage]

(01-07-2015 01:48 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 12:49 PM)Mage Wrote:  

Being a Satanist is very stupid, regardless of whether God exists or not. Allow me to explain why:

If you do not subject yourself to Gods will (or higher reason, or providence, or natural law or law's of physics) or whatever is highest in this universe - you are free to do whatever wish happens to dominate your mind in that particular moment - which effectively make you a slave of your desires and phantasies.

And as we know desires and phantasies often tend to be self-destructive, from pride (the thing that lulls you into thinking that consequnces that apply to others will not apply to you) to overeating, laziness, drug use, unhealthy sexual fetishes and so on.

This is what Jesus speaks when he speaks that he has come to free people from sin. By obserwing a will of a strict but benevolent God a man is free to stop slaving to his destuctive desires.

Being a Satanist is equivalent to sticking your fingers in an elictrical socket because "no fucking Nature will impose it's laws on me and I will not submit to it's will"

Regardles of whether the highest force in universe is nature and laws of physics or God - a man is wise to recognise that submitting himself to the highest of laws is what brings the most freedom in world - that is freedom from:
1)Lesser laws. For example knowing the Red pill laws of what really attracts women make you free from being a nice guy as prescirbed by "social laws and norms" of this feminized society.
2)Your destructive desires. For example by knowing that a man has to be dominant to get women a men will have to realize that his phantasy of having a dominatrix who commands him and whips him and fucks him in ass with strap-on is destructive because women will lose respect for him if he asks them to play this roleplay and eventually leave. The man then has some inner work to do and must liberate himself from this destructive desire and reroute his sexuality into a natural dominant state.

Similarly understanding that our genes die if we don't reproduce should make a man to avoid homosexuality and understanding nutrition and health should make a man to lose excess fat. The next level of atheism after denial of God is denial of mans's ability to change his desires. Therefore the liberal bullshit that homosexuality is not achoice and that obesity is not a choice. Effectively this next stage is Satanism - denial of human will to submit to the highest good for the sake of choosing to be a slave to the legion of pathogenic desires (demons).

Therefore the only smart postion in life is to respect God as the highest law in the universe. Whether this law is a unique incorporeal person or just a set of rules deeply encoded in nature of universe is another question, whether this law is nice and fair or blind and cruel is another queastoin, but respect must be given and the highest law must be observed. That is the only wise stance.

So to sum it up, sex and free will is dangerous, Jesus is great, homosexuality = the devil/satanism, and God is a bad ass motherfucker.

Let me guess, you're Catholic?

No I am not Catholic. Also I disagree with all your assumptions about my beliefs except that sex is dangerous, because someone can get pregnant, catch a STD or get falsly accused of rape. It's still fun and part of it is precisely because there is some danger involved.
You didn't understand what I was writing at all.

[enderilluminatus]

(01-07-2015 01:56 PM)Mage Wrote:  

I am 100% sure something exists that atheists would call God

You're cheating here. You can't assume anything about what other people believe. You have to define things for yourself and what you believe.

Do you believe in a god. Are you certain about your belief.

It is very simple and allows us to begin the conversation. Everything else you're talking about is the Great Debate. But unless you answer the above questions Yes, Yes then you are an agnostic atheist.

[TheWastelander]

Satanism is 95% trolling and 5% seriously dangerous evil psychopaths.

Like most atheist plusers, they don't have the guts to troll religious people who would respond to their trolling with violence.

[enderilluminatus]

(01-07-2015 02:01 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

Satanism is 95% trolling and 5% seriously dangerous evil psychopaths.

Agreed, that's why I gave it up after a week for Discordianism, which is the closest any religion has come to Truth.

[Mage]

(01-07-2015 02:01 PM)enderilluminatus Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 01:56 PM)Mage Wrote:  

I am 100% sure something exists that atheists would call God

You're cheating here. You can't assume anything about what other people believe. You have to define things for yourself and what you believe.

Do you believe in a god. Are you certain about your belief.

It is very simple and allows us to begin the conversation. Everything else you're talking about is the Great Debate. But unless you answer the above questions Yes, Yes then you are an agnostic atheist.

If you say that I am cheating by assuming what other pople believe then you must also say that manospere is cheating in assuming to know the real secret motivations of women.

The real wisdom starts when you stop taking people's argumants on th surface value they would like you to take them and start thinking "Why are they saying this? What desires motivate them to act an speak in the manner they do act and speak?"

Mind is a tool to rationalize our desires, don't forget that.

[Plato]

Anybody who lives by their own moral code and not one handed to them by a religion is pretty much a Satanist.

Atheism is pretty much identical to Satanism.

The only difference is that Satanists - refuse on principle - to worship any higher being. Even if they were convinced that such a higher being existed.

I have a dog. And I don't expect it to worship me. And I apply the same principle to God (if there is one).

Another thing is that Satanists celebrate carnal desires (food, sex, drugs, alcohol) whereas most religions try to condemn such desires.

[DChambers]

There are no atheists or satanists in the foxhole.

[enderilluminatus]

(01-07-2015 02:14 PM)Mage Wrote:  

If you say that I am cheating by assuming what other pople believe then you must also say that manospere is cheating in assuming to know the real secret motivations of women.

The manosphere is valid because the evidence backs up the claims. A god claim is the most extraordinary that could ever be made and there is not one single shred of evidence to back it up. I don't accept your comparison.

[Plato]

@DChambers - that old chestnut?

Primo Levi survived the selection lines for the gas chambers at Auschwitz.

Quote:

Levi in The Drowned And The Saved writes of the only occasion when he was tempted to pray:

This happened in October of 1944, in the one moment in which I lucidly perceived the imminence of death.

Naked and compressed among my naked companions with my personal index card in hand, I was waiting to file past the ‘commission’ that with one glance would decide whether I should immediately go into the gas chamber or was instead strong enough to go on working.

For one instant I felt the need to ask for help and asylum; then despite my anguish, equanimity prevailed: you do not change the rules of the game at the end of the match, nor when you are losing.

A prayer under these conditions would have been not only absurd (what rights could I claim? and from whom?) but blasphemous, obscene, laden with the greatest impiety of which a non-believer is capable.

I rejected the temptation: I knew that otherwise, were I to survive, I would have to be ashamed of it.

(The Drowned and the Saved, 1989 Abacus edition: p118).

[Mage]

(01-07-2015 02:22 PM)enderilluminatus Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 02:14 PM)Mage Wrote:  

If you say that I am cheating by assuming what other pople believe then you must also say that manospere is cheating in assuming to know the real secret motivations of women.

The manosphere is valid because the evidence backs up the claims. A god claim is the most extraordinary that could ever be made and there is not one single shred of evidence to back it up. I don't accept your comparison.

I was not making a comparison betwen manosphere and God. I am not a theist. Remember - our discussion begun from my claim that I don't find myself on your neat chart of 4 quadrants.

Nevertheless the nature of manosphere is not scientific, but speculative and empiric. Manosphere was not born in labotory or trough scientific theories in academia but rather trough internet when many men shared their individual experiances. Similarly how theists share their individual experiances when they felt a "touch of god" to reinforce a belief in God or when they felt their prayers answered. But also similarly how game denialists share their negative experiances that they tried game and it didn't work. Or how atheists shared their experiances that they tried to pray, but their prayers were not answered and they felt nothing so they rejected that bullshit.

This is how beliefs are born. Science then is used to rationalize one belief or another. In truth science is silent about the existance of God as it is silent about sexual preferances of any single individual women.

The only thing that is sure that the persons beliefs is born from his irrational desires which then are rationalized trough "scientific" arguments to make a person feel good and intellectually validated.

[Truth Teller]

(01-07-2015 12:02 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

NO!!! I really think fairy tales are best left for children under the age of ten.
For practical reasons, I largely keep my opinions to myself in public, but when I hear an adult tell me they are religious, I immediately lose a lot of respect for that person and assign them a lower category of perceived mental capacity and emotional maturity.
Scientologists, Southern Baptists, Muslims, Catholics, Jews, etc, they are all equally disconnected from reality and equally foolish.

That's generally the New Atheist position. Religious is for childish, deluded people, etc., etc., etc. Another common trope is that "When you understand why you reject all other gods, you'll understand why I reject yours."

Of course, the average New Atheist has about as much knowledge of philosophy or religion as I do of superconductivity. Most of the objections proposed are painfully ignorant. Indeed, most of Dawkins/Hitchens/Harris is just ranting against religion, with little attempt to actually engage the classical theistic arguments. Dawkins' attempt to counter Aquinas' Five Ways is horridly inept.

[DChambers]

(01-07-2015 02:35 PM)Plato Wrote:  

@DChambers - that old chestnut?

Primo Levi survived the selection lines for the gas chambers at Auschwitz.

Quote:

Levi in The Drowned And The Saved writes of the only occasion when he was tempted to pray:

This happened in October of 1944, in the one moment in which I lucidly perceived the imminence of death.

Naked and compressed among my naked companions with my personal index card in hand, I was waiting to file past the ‘commission’ that with one glance would decide whether I should immediately go into the gas chamber or was instead strong enough to go on working.

For one instant I felt the need to ask for help and asylum; then despite my anguish, equanimity prevailed: you do not change the rules of the game at the end of the match, nor when you are losing.

A prayer under these conditions would have been not only absurd (what rights could I claim? and from whom?) but blasphemous, obscene, laden with the greatest impiety of which a non-believer is capable.

I rejected the temptation: I knew that otherwise, were I to survive, I would have to be ashamed of it.

(The Drowned and the Saved, 1989 Abacus edition: p118).

I'd bet you my bottom dollar that his pride would be gone and he'd be lifting his eyes to the heaven in hopes of salvation if he had actually ended up in the chamber.

[Truth Teller]

(01-07-2015 02:22 PM)enderilluminatus Wrote:  

The manosphere is valid because the evidence backs up the claims. A god claim is the most extraordinary that could ever be made and there is not one single shred of evidence to back it up. I don't accept your comparison.

You need to explain why the evidence often put forward doesn't work. The claims the manosphere makes can be contradicted.

[Plato]

[Mage]

(01-07-2015 02:19 PM)Plato Wrote:  

Anybody who lives by their own moral code and not one handed to them by a religion is pretty much a Satanist.

Yes that is right, that is Satanism and that is foolish. Because some moral codes are clearly superior to others. Some moral codes cause prosperity of an individual or of society and other moral codes cause degradation of an individual or a society.

Therefore a task for any smart man is to find the best moral code found in nature, be it involving God or not and then to live by this code.

Ignoring all that and just doing as your itches and whims dictate to you is what Satanists do and it is short sighted and stupid.

[Plato]

Being good is not difficult.

Evolution (and not religion) is the reason that people act altruistically.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/altr...58399.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_equat...f_altruism

If most people followed the instincts that evolution has given them. They will do good. It is only when they act in a way that they (instinctively) know to be wrong that problems occur.

[TheWastelander]

(01-07-2015 02:43 PM)Plato Wrote:  

Hitchens was a self-professed Marxist, a huge admirer of Trotsky and later had strong sympathies for neo-conservatism's 'spread democracy through force' doctrine (which is rather like Trotsky's 'spread communism through force' philosophy).

He did not believe in a supernatural being but like a lot of atheists he replaced it with belief in egalitarianism, marxism, socialism, etc.

An interesting character who earns my respect despite all those shortcomings and various lies he told about Christianity because he was willing to be, for the most part, an equal-opportunist critic of all religions. He put himself at personal risk quite a bit and was ready to throw down for his beliefs. He also helped his friend Salman Rushdie and stood by him when few would and an entire nation (Iran) wanted to assassinate him.

Because of all that most leftist atheists hated him and branded him an islamophobe.

I often lament that he is not alive today to tear into these SJW freaks with a vengeance.

[Truth Teller]

(01-07-2015 02:53 PM)Plato Wrote:  

Being good is not difficult.

Evolution (and not religion) is the reason that people act altruistically.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/altr...58399.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_equat...f_altruism

If most people followed the instincts that evolution has give them. They will do good. It is only when they act in a way that they (instinctively) know to be wrong that problems occur.

Yes, our sense of morality evolved. That doesn't answer why we think it's true or why it exists in the first place.

Our ability to do math and science also evolved.

[Mage]

(01-07-2015 02:53 PM)Plato Wrote:  

Being good is not difficult.

Evolution (and not religion) is the reason that people act altruistically.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/altr...58399.html

If most people followed the instincts that evolution has give them. They will do good. It is only when they act in a way that they (instinctively) know to be wrong that problems occur.

This is not always so.

Example: People are evolved to store fat, because for tens of thousands of years of evolution assumed that food is scarce.

Excess food and minimal movement is a phenomenon of the last century. prior to that even kings rarely did have such luxuries as coach potatoes today.

Ironically people who have most trouble losing weight are considered the most adabted by our genes and evolution.

But now we must adobt in a reverse direction. People must go against their instincts and cheat their bodies into losing weight.


White knighting is also probably an evolutionary mechanism that is counterproductive today.

[Plato]

Evolved simply means that the people who had those traits had more descendents than those who did not.

It is no more a mystery why we evolved to be "good" than why we evolved to have thumbs.



Also - everyone on this forum is an Atheist.

If you were absolutely sure that God told you to kill your parents (or children) - would you?

If you answer 'No' - then you are an Atheist.

If you answered 'Yes' - you are mentally ill.

[DChambers]

@Plato

First and last videos seem hardly relevant. In fact the last one seems to support my claim, when you are in fear for your life you will sacrifice your long held beliefs, in his case his dignity, on the slim chance you will survive.

In the other Hitchens video, it is hardly as if he is sitting on his deathbed feeling the life slip away from him. Once more, he is not in the gas chamber. His last words in fact were "Capitalism, downfall." Now if he had flipped off God and said kiss my ass his argument would have a little more weight.

Those soldiers you see in that photo are as well, hardly in the midst of combat. I once more would bet a damn high amount of money that they've never seen the bottom of a foxhole in hard combat. Not to disrespect our soldiers, but to call our recent actions in the Middle East, with the exception of a few operations, anything more that glorified police actions is disingenuous to our veterans who stormed the beaches of Normandy, or fought at Khe Sanh.


You yourself said, "Aros! Welcome aboard - you are not an atheist.

You are a Satanist.

As am I.

Like you - even if I came face to face with God - I still wouldn't submit to his will. Since the idea of submitting to anybody's (or any being's) will is completely alien to me.

And that is the very foundation stone of Satanism.

Make yourself comfortable. We have all the best tunes.

(Black Sabbath Video)"

Do you not submit to your bosses will, to the tax collectors, to the traffic lights? You already submit to the will of others, so to say no to God out of a sense of pride and opt instead to go to hell for eternity, would be highly irrational and an empty gesture.


And on another note, Black Sabbath kinda sucks. There, I said it.

[TheWastelander]

(01-07-2015 02:59 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 02:53 PM)Plato Wrote:  

Being good is not difficult.

Evolution (and not religion) is the reason that people act altruistically.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/altr...58399.html

If most people followed the instincts that evolution has give them. They will do good. It is only when they act in a way that they (instinctively) know to be wrong that problems occur.

This is not always so.

Example: People are evolved to store fat, because for tens of thousands of years of evolution assumed that food is scarce.

Excess food and minimal movement is a phenomenon of the last century. prior to that even kings rarely did have such luxuries as coach potatoes today.

Ironically people who have most trouble losing weight are considered the most adabted by our genes and evolution.

But now we must adobt in a reverse direction. People must go against their instincts and cheat their bodies into losing weight.


White knighting is also probably an evolutionary mechanism that is counterproductive today.

Good point. I never thought of white knighting in that way. I think maybe this and social conditioning are why it's often so hard for "blue pill" guys to reject the nonsense they're taught about women, dating, marriage, etc. as children.

[Mage]

(01-07-2015 03:03 PM)Plato Wrote:  

Also - everyone on this forum is an Atheist.

If you were absolutely sure that God told you to kill your parents (or children) - would you?

If you answer 'No' - then you are an Atheist.

If you answered 'Yes' - you are mentally ill.

Belief in God an belief in visons are two diferent things.

Every serious religion tells that visions might come from God, might come from Devil and might just be hallucinations and "viewer discretion is advised"

[TheWastelander]

(01-07-2015 03:03 PM)Plato Wrote:  

Evolved simply means that the people who had those traits had more descendents than those who did not.

It is no more a mystery why we evolved to be "good" than why we evolved to have thumbs.



Also - everyone on this forum is an Atheist.

If you were absolutely sure that God told you to kill your parents (or children) - would you?

If you answer 'No' - then you are an Atheist.

If you answered 'Yes' - you are mentally ill.

For the sake of argument, if God came down and told you to kill your parents, would you still be an atheist? You'd have the proof he existed.

[iknowexactly]

(01-07-2015 02:03 PM)enderilluminatus Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 02:01 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

Satanism is 95% trolling and 5% seriously dangerous evil psychopaths.

Agreed, that's why I gave it up after a week for Discordianism, which is the closest any religion has come to Truth.

OK, damn, you win, I've never heard of it, what's "Discordianism"?