[BallsDeep]

According to the new FACTA law, foreign banks notify the IRS of all accounts held by Americans that contain more than 50k.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102122343

[Phoenix]

I'm so glad I'm not a US citizen. That place gets more totalitarian and thug-like by the day. I wouldn't be surprised if it rivals Iran one day.

I'll be glad to see the US lose its power, it'll stop other countries bending to their will and accepting their domineering bullshit.
That or the States hold an Article 5 Convention and totally gut the power of the federal government.

[ball dont lie]

I don't get this. Maybe I'm not a baller and rich enough to care?

I live in China. This place is a shithole and any Chinese person who has the ability leaves. The only ones who return are either going in their father's business, getting a high place in the government or idiots who couldnt hack it abroad.

The USA is getting worse for sure, but making a little money and living there isn't such a hell hole. Don't get married or get a girl pregnant, enjoy world class entertainment and an amazingly clean environment with a low population density. Seems pretty nice to me. I spend a lot of summers in Montana and its a paradise. Whats not to like about that?

[PrimeTime32]

I think it's more about posturing because they're is a HUGE difference between thinking about giving up your U.S. citizenship and actually doing it.

[elcidcampeador]

I'm pretty sure this is 99% about taxes.

[Gosh900]

Give it to me, we can trade it

[TheBulldozer]

Let me give you a bit of why this worries me. I am not a tax lawyer, but I am knowledgable enough on the topic because it directly affects me.

FACTA isn't so damaging on the surface. Even among wealthy expats, it's unlikely that you'll hold such large amounts of money in singular individual bank accounts.

However, the idea of FACTA was designed in a very clever way. After the passing of FACTA, many countries will now not allow new bank accounts to be opened up by Americans. Countries simply don't want the American octopus arms inside of their own banking system snooping for American accounts. And how can you blame them?

I am working in a foreign country, except all of my pay now hits my American account. That's not worrying on the surface, as I'm not taxed on the first $102,500(I believe) I make annually in a foreign country, regardless of what account it hits. I can prove my income is earned internationally and it's not a tax issue.

What worries me is now it's very easy for the US to drop the other side of the shoe, and say that foreign income earned and deposited in American bank accounts will now be subject to income tax.

It used to be possible for an American abroad to play completely outside of the sphere. That is no more. FACTA now makes that impossible. Worrying for me to say the least.

[arnoux]

(10-29-2014 07:10 AM)ball dont lie Wrote:  

I don't get this. Maybe I'm not a baller and rich enough to care?

I live in China. This place is a shithole and any Chinese person who has the ability leaves. The only ones who return are either going in their father's business, getting a high place in the government or idiots who couldnt hack it abroad.

The USA is getting worse for sure, but making a little money and living there isn't such a hell hole. Don't get married or get a girl pregnant, enjoy world class entertainment and an amazingly clean environment with a low population density. Seems pretty nice to me. I spend a lot of summers in Montana and its a paradise. Whats not to like about that?

I dont want to play the role of the basic anti american but the few times i visited USA it was mostly San Francisco and NYC and I didn't find those places being "amazing clean environment"
I didnt feel safe mostly and was amazed by the numbers of tattooed / junkies / obese freaks that you can meet in the streets. It is at a point that in SF it is a real human pollution i would say that become quite depressing. Eastern Europe and Russia don't give me this feeling even in some industrial shitholes that I have visited. I guess it is because in rich countries the welfare it is good enough to make all those freaks surviving while the natural selection play its role in other places.

[calwinston]

(10-29-2014 08:19 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

Let me give you a bit of why this worries me. I am not a tax lawyer, but I am knowledgable enough on the topic because it directly affects me.

FACTA isn't so damaging on the surface. Even among wealthy expats, it's unlikely that you'll hold such large amounts of money in singular individual bank accounts.

However, the idea of FACTA was designed in a very clever way. After the passing of FACTA, many countries will now not allow new bank accounts to be opened up by Americans. Countries simply don't want the American octopus arms inside of their own banking system snooping for American accounts. And how can you blame them?

I am working in a foreign country, except all of my pay now hits my American account. That's not worrying on the surface, as I'm not taxed on the first $102,500(I believe) I make annually in a foreign country, regardless of what account it hits. I can prove my income is earned internationally and it's not a tax issue.

What worries me is now it's very easy for the US to drop the other side of the shoe, and say that foreign income earned and deposited in American bank accounts will now be subject to income tax.

It used to be possible for an American abroad to play completely outside of the sphere. That is no more. FACTA now makes that impossible. Worrying for me to say the least.

FATCA goes deeper than the surface you described.
It's also foreign nationals who are married to American citizens have to disclose their assets also. Plus be possibly taxed on it. Even if the don't have an American visa, green card, never even came to the US. All while living in a different country. Would you like to tell your foreign wife that the IRS wants to see all of her assets?! Plus take a portion of it. The same wife that has never gone to the US. I don't think that will go over well. This just because she is married to an American citizen.


If a American owns more than ten percent of a company overseas his foreign partners have to comply with the IRS by disclosing profits, derivatives, dividends, distribtutions.... of the business. Even if the business has no dealings in the United States.
Example: Jim Cheung has a factory in China. He owns 90 percent of the factory. Tim Ford (the American) owns ten percent of the factory. IRS gets to go through their books and they have to pay lawyers and tax advisors to file their taxes to the United States and China.
Down the road I have an American and a Australian that wants to invest in my business. One will have the IRS breathing down my throat even though I have no dealings in the United States and the other I don't. Which partner would I choose. 10 out of 10 times it will be the Australian because of less regulation and hassle.

Any person with a green card gets taxed also. Even if they are not living in the US.
Also foreign nationals with expired green cards, that never returned the physical card. Grandma with that green card that lives in Ukraine. She is reporting her income to the US and assets.

Any person with dual citizenship has to disclose their assets and be taxed on it. (All of them have to pay back taxes going to the time since they started working.) (Just because Mom decided to have you in Detroit instead of Winnipeg.) Then anyone that is born to an American citizen overseas is technically a citizen to the United States. All the parent has to do is submit a certificate of birth to the embassy. Then that child is a slave to the US and its tax laws for the rest of their lives. Even though that child has been living in Brazil their entire lives.

Plus to have to pay a lawyer to help you fill out the forms and then the outrageous amount to renounce their citizenship.

This is stressing people out over bullshit. People getting divorces, banks rejecting loans and service, kids is mad at their parents, foreign companies kicking out American investors, the list goes on.



This would all just go away if the US did resident based taxation just like ever other country in the world except Eritrea. But don't hold your breath on that.
IE anyone in the US will be taxed on worldwide income. If I live in Thailand I pay follow the tax rules in Thailand. If i live in Morocco I pay taxes in Morocco. Its so simple but they make it really complicated. This avoids double taxation on peoples income. Which happens when you cross that 100000 dollar threshold.

Lets say I work for Nestle in New York making $250,000 a year. My manger calls me in his office and wants me to get some experience at the Global headquarters in Switzerland. In Switzerland they will bump up my pay to $300,000. I agree to the offer. I am working in Switzerland and go to open a bank account. Get denied. I ask human resources to help me in locating a bank that will do business with me so I can accept direct deposit into my account. They find one bank after making multiple calls to 15 different banks. Tax time comes around I file my taxes in Switzerland, then the US I file my US taxes later that year. Switzerland get their cut, then the US gets their cut because I am over the $100,000 dollar threshold. Some countries have tax treaties with the US. This mostly covers income taxes. If I earn any dividends from a stock that I have Switzerland gets their cut, then the US. And it goes on and on.

Just out of curiosity what if all of us just came back to the US expats and green card holders. Would jobs be available for all of us?

[TheBulldozer]

^Thanks! That's telling info. I hadn't looked past the issue beyond the immediate ramifications for me. As if you needed another reason not to marry an American chick.

[jimukr104]

*Yes NYC , Manhattan is dirty. What do you expect in an old center that has millions walking daily on it?

But go to a suburb or even a NICE area of Brooklyn(not trendy but NICE residential) and the streets and houses are clean. In EE it is the opposite. The center is often well kept but residential areas are shit.

As for the the banking laws. Incidental, it is the middle class and low income that get hurt the most. The rich have NO PROBLEM opening accounts because their investment is worth the trouble for the foreign banks.

[Soothesayer]

This is why I upgraded my canadian perm. residence to Citizenship. It wasn't just to have the ability to vote, but to open a foreign account and not have the bank think twice about letting me open an account (i.e. Deutsche Bank!) because I'm an American.

Better to pay $400 for citizenship than $2300 to deny my U.S.one.

In the end I suppose it won't matter anyway if the entire economy collapses. The goon squads at the IRS will have 1/10th the money to do fuck all about it. And if they decide to take my money by force, I'll introduce them to Mr. Smith and Mrs. Wesson just like every other American.

[Jack198]

(10-29-2014 09:26 AM)calwinston Wrote:  

(10-29-2014 08:19 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

Let me give you a bit of why this worries me. I am not a tax lawyer, but I am knowledgable enough on the topic because it directly affects me.

FACTA isn't so damaging on the surface. Even among wealthy expats, it's unlikely that you'll hold such large amounts of money in singular individual bank accounts.

However, the idea of FACTA was designed in a very clever way. After the passing of FACTA, many countries will now not allow new bank accounts to be opened up by Americans. Countries simply don't want the American octopus arms inside of their own banking system snooping for American accounts. And how can you blame them?

I am working in a foreign country, except all of my pay now hits my American account. That's not worrying on the surface, as I'm not taxed on the first $102,500(I believe) I make annually in a foreign country, regardless of what account it hits. I can prove my income is earned internationally and it's not a tax issue.

What worries me is now it's very easy for the US to drop the other side of the shoe, and say that foreign income earned and deposited in American bank accounts will now be subject to income tax.

It used to be possible for an American abroad to play completely outside of the sphere. That is no more. FACTA now makes that impossible. Worrying for me to say the least.

FATCA goes deeper than the surface you described.
It's also foreign nationals who are married to American citizens have to disclose their assets also. Plus be possibly taxed on it. Even if the don't have an American visa, green card, never even came to the US. All while living in a different country. Would you like to tell your foreign wife that the IRS wants to see all of her assets?! Plus take a portion of it. The same wife that has never gone to the US. I don't think that will go over well. This just because she is married to an American citizen.


If a American owns more than ten percent of a company overseas his foreign partners have to comply with the IRS by disclosing profits, derivatives, dividends, distribtutions.... of the business. Even if the business has no dealings in the United States.
Example: Jim Cheung has a factory in China. He owns 90 percent of the factory. Tim Ford (the American) owns ten percent of the factory. IRS gets to go through their books and they have to pay lawyers and tax advisors to file their taxes to the United States and China.
Down the road I have an American and a Australian that wants to invest in my business. One will have the IRS breathing down my throat even though I have no dealings in the United States and the other I don't. Which partner would I choose. 10 out of 10 times it will be the Australian because of less regulation and hassle.

Any person with a green card gets taxed also. Even if they are not living in the US.
Also foreign nationals with expired green cards, that never returned the physical card. Grandma with that green card that lives in Ukraine. She is reporting her income to the US and assets.

Any person with dual citizenship has to disclose their assets and be taxed on it. (All of them have to pay back taxes going to the time since they started working.) (Just because Mom decided to have you in Detroit instead of Winnipeg.) Then anyone that is born to an American citizen overseas is technically a citizen to the United States. All the parent has to do is submit a certificate of birth to the embassy. Then that child is a slave to the US and its tax laws for the rest of their lives. Even though that child has been living in Brazil their entire lives.

Plus to have to pay a lawyer to help you fill out the forms and then the outrageous amount to renounce their citizenship.

This is stressing people out over bullshit. People getting divorces, banks rejecting loans and service, kids is mad at their parents, foreign companies kicking out American investors, the list goes on.



This would all just go away if the US did resident based taxation just like ever other country in the world except Eritrea. But don't hold your breath on that.
IE anyone in the US will be taxed on worldwide income. If I live in Thailand I pay follow the tax rules in Thailand. If i live in Morocco I pay taxes in Morocco. Its so simple but they make it really complicated. This avoids double taxation on peoples income. Which happens when you cross that 100000 dollar threshold.

Lets say I work for Nestle in New York making $250,000 a year. My manger calls me in his office and wants me to get some experience at the Global headquarters in Switzerland. In Switzerland they will bump up my pay to $300,000. I agree to the offer. I am working in Switzerland and go to open a bank account. Get denied. I ask human resources to help me in locating a bank that will do business with me so I can accept direct deposit into my account. They find one bank after making multiple calls to 15 different banks. Tax time comes around I file my taxes in Switzerland, then the US I file my US taxes later that year. Switzerland get their cut, then the US gets their cut because I am over the $100,000 dollar threshold. Some countries have tax treaties with the US. This mostly covers income taxes. If I earn any dividends from a stock that I have Switzerland gets their cut, then the US. And it goes on and on.

Just out of curiosity what if all of us just came back to the US expats and green card holders. Would jobs be available for all of us?

This is all very true - as well as a few other things.

Even before FACTA went into effect, anyone who did not disclose an overseas bank account (one with over $10,000 equivalent deposited) was subject to a $10,000 fine plus seizure of half of whatever was in the account. Also before they fully enacted FACTA this year, US citizens and permanent residents living overseas fortunate enough to have bank accounts in the countries where they live and work were frequently questioned by their banks as to their compliance with US laws; the banks are eager for the slightest excuse to close the accounts of a friend of mine in Singapore. Those seeking accounts since then have an even more difficult time trying to open one, as Calwinston pointed out, so long as they are still behind the financial Berlin wall of US citizenship. The US is the only one aside from (Eritria, North Korea or Myanmar, depending who you ask) that does this and it is as embarrassing as it is presumptuous.

But why would countries be so willing to deputize their bankers to doing the work of the IRS? Favorable deals on defense gear, perhaps; but even then some countries like Switzerland aren't always willing to take the trouble of treasure hunting to help fund Social Security, hence the increased purging of accounts with any US ties whatsoever.

What's that? You're not a citizen or even a green card holder? No problem - even if you're an H1-B worker for just a few years, guess what - your worldwide income is still subject to the long arm of uncle greedy sugar whether you plan to stay permanently or not.

BTW, many of the people cited in recent stats as renouncing their citizenship are actually green card holders and perhaps even H1-Bs, not full fledged citizens, though tax wise it makes no difference. This could also be that it is excruciatingly difficult to get rid of your US citizenship once you are "fortunate" enough to be born with it.

If you choose to renounce, bear in mind that you cannot rid yourself from the shadow of the bully for mere tax reasons, there have to be other factors. Eduardo Saverin no doubt made his move for tax reasons but he also had ample justification for business purposes too. He paid a massive exit tax in the process, but that wasn't enough. Instead of encouraging people like him to stay and keep contributing to the economy, idiots like Senator Charles Schumer tried to shoot him in the back as he exited with a bill that would, were it passed, permanently bar renouncers from ever visiting the US again, all done to the cheers of the mouth breathing class envious union loving asswipes who think this somehow helps their economic cause. Morons, all.

I am eligible for EU citizenship through family, but even were I to take it, I'd still have a hell of a time getting rid of my citizenship, as illustrated in this and prior posts.

The USA is sending the IRS to literally look for quarters in the sofa cushions to satiate the never-ending spending spree going on for well over half a century. It is almost to the point where it makes sense to move to France and put up with similar BS but at least get a good meal and a bottle of decent wine once in a while. With America trending the way it is, we'll never become Europe as the left seems to think. Instead, we'll only get the worst of everything - big government, high taxes, obnoxious fat women and strip mall minivan McCulture calling itself the greatest country in the world.

I seriously can't believe I ever put a uniform on to defend this crap.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Damn! I knew it was bad enough already to be American but after reading how even spouses of US citizens who have never been to the US or their kids get enslaved as well? Crazy!

As Simon Black has been saying it eloquently for years now, this is all too similar to the ways the Roman Empire acted right before it's fall. Corrupt and bankrupt financially and morally, it tries to hold on to it's shadow of it's once splendour by eroding one by one all the civil rights of it's citizens and terrorizing them along by over taxing them to the sky. The signs are all too clear for all to see. This is a very fast sinking ship and you better get out while you still can. Wouldn't be surprised if in the very near future, they would restrict and make illegal international travel, let alone expatriation, as well as getting a second passport and renouncing your US citizenship.

If you've got the option to get a second passport, do it ASAP before that becomes prohibited!

So long Land of the Free...what a waste and what a pity!

[BallsDeep]

All the traditional tax havens are down the drain. Cayman Islands, Hong Kong, Singapore, Switzerland, Turkey, St Kitts, Panama--all signed on.

What I find bewildering is that practically every country is participating.

Countries like China and Germany, who fiscally can stand up to the US and who experienced conflicts with the NSA, are now participants in the snooping.

Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Russia, why would they agree to this?

[Jack198]

Politics man, politics. If they don't agree to it they lose somewhere else.

If Germany says no, hello to new import tariffs on everything from cars to industrial materials, to whatever else we import from them.

China - ditto. And then some. Think they really care about a few thousand expats when they have billions of dollars in consumer crap ready to export for Walmart?

Saudi is easy - they need our help protecting their monarchy.

Iraq - totally on the ropes begging for help against ISIS (but who would trust an Iraqi bank nowadays anyway?) Same goes for all the dilapidated African countries you would think might be safe places to hide, but they've actually got piles of their own regulations in addition to the status of modern serfs dependent upon foreign aid.

Russia - will see how long they cooperate; if anybody can tell Uncle Sugar to fuck off it's Putin, but it has to be for bigger reasons than this.

The US may be getting flabby but it still has some muscle left. For now.

[Global Entry]

Not exactly sure what you mean here, but I was a tax lawyer. For ten years. Big Four and white shoe firms.

Other than the basic overseas earnings exception, US citizens and residents have been taxable on their worldwide income for as long as the modern tax code has been in place. Sure, there are ways to defer and deferral is the primary method of tax planning for income tax (not for estate and gift), but ultimately, when funds are repatriated they are taxable. Money earned by an individual in a foreign bank account is immediately taxable. And earnings through foreign joint ventures and partnerships, yes, immediately taxable.

There's an enormous industry, of which I was a part, in creating deferral for companies with overseas operations, the new fashion of which is inversion transactions, though those aren't "new" in that they existed when I was practicing tax law before 2000, and the case law goes back much further. It wasn't a common transaction, nor is it common now, but its flashy, and gets a lot of press. And when big companies do it, its a revenue loss. Most companies don't fully invert, they don't have to - they just send their IP offshore to Ireland or elsewhere, or their "management" to a tax haven, and defer as long as possible. 15 years deferment basically, mathematically, lowers the cost of the tax in excess of 90 percent. At that point, they've already won. So again, the game is in deferral.

For foreign individuals, they can still lend money in the USA, for the most part, tax free, so long as the interest is portfolio interest, and not a loan to a company they own or control. The USA needs to Portfolio interest exemption, as no one would buy state bonds and other debt if it didn't exist, interest rates would shoot up, borrowing money would become more expensive for the federal government, and our government would shut down tomorrow.

Dividend repatriation from a corporation is subject to withholding taxes, reduced in some cases below the standard 30 percent via tax treaty. And business income from operating a business in the USA is taxable as it is to a US business, and is avoided by many foreign companies and individuals for reeasons referred to above- the USA asks for huge information disclosure and most wealthy foreigners don't want to open their books to the IRS.

Just one counterpoint - the USA is far from the highest tax rate country in the west for income. It may be better at collecting though, then some other western countries (looking at you, Italy, while nodding at England). But many other european residents, France, Sweden, England, bear highe effective tax rates than Americans.

I don't want to derail this thread and I certainly don't want to engage in tax policy debate, just clarifying a few things.

(10-29-2014 08:19 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

Let me give you a bit of why this worries me. I am not a tax lawyer, but I am knowledgable enough on the topic because it directly affects me.

FACTA isn't so damaging on the surface. Even among wealthy expats, it's unlikely that you'll hold such large amounts of money in singular individual bank accounts.

However, the idea of FACTA was designed in a very clever way. After the passing of FACTA, many countries will now not allow new bank accounts to be opened up by Americans. Countries simply don't want the American octopus arms inside of their own banking system snooping for American accounts. And how can you blame them?

I am working in a foreign country, except all of my pay now hits my American account. That's not worrying on the surface, as I'm not taxed on the first $102,500(I believe) I make annually in a foreign country, regardless of what account it hits. I can prove my income is earned internationally and it's not a tax issue.

What worries me is now it's very easy for the US to drop the other side of the shoe, and say that foreign income earned and deposited in American bank accounts will now be subject to income tax.

It used to be possible for an American abroad to play completely outside of the sphere. That is no more. FACTA now makes that impossible. Worrying for me to say the least.

[TheBulldozer]

(10-29-2014 05:06 PM)Global Entry Wrote:  

Other than the basic overseas earnings exception, US citizens and residents have been taxable on their worldwide income for as long as the modern tax code has been in place. Sure, there are ways to defer and deferral is the primary method of tax planning for income tax (not for estate and gift), but ultimately, when funds are repatriated they are taxable. Money earned by an individual in a foreign bank account is immediately taxable. And earnings through foreign joint ventures and partnerships, yes, immediately taxable.

Please, let's discuss this at length. I can't get clear answers anywhere and I trust your words than I would a random internet source.

I am curious about, "when funds are repatriated they are taxable." Can you provide some clarification? Perhaps we can even discuss privately.

I am totally clueless in this realm. My earnings are taxed in Vietnam and the remainder is deposited into my US bank account via wire. I can prove physical presence, and therefore I won't have to pay federal income tax on my first $102,500. Is there anything else I need to know? From what you're saying here, it seems like there is more to this.

[DVY]

There are still places in the world where cash-dealings is normal, and its not hard to open a bank account w/a friend, wife or GF w/foreign passport. ie. most wealthy in Ukraine pay basically zero in taxes but shit-ton in bribes. Pr-vat Bank is notorious for housing the wealthiest of wealthy's money and closing their eyes to foreign ATM withdrawals (1k/withdrawal per day). Asia countries are also like this.

Living off paypal and foreign bank accounts is still doable but a huge fn headache.

Pay your taxes boys! There are tons of legal ways to divert and drop income. If you are self-employed w/ only part-time or independent contractors you can open a solo 401k. Huge tax benefits of 18k + 25% of profits (20% if sole prop) up to 52k/year. Plus add in a HSA account and 529 plan for your future kiddies and its almost a non-issue. For most of you, <250k/single filer entrepeneur w/a foreign income exclusion this basically shelters most of your income.

Cheers!

[DVY]

@MaleDefined- its pretty much a slam dunk for you. You have job, salary, and housing there. Don't trip about it.

I think you can also deduct housing expenses, but I am no tax proffesional.

[micky]

(10-29-2014 08:46 AM)arnoux Wrote:  

I dont want to play the role of the basic anti american but the few times i visited USA it was mostly San Francisco and NYC and I didn't find those places being "amazing clean environment"
I didnt feel safe mostly and was amazed by the numbers of tattooed / junkies / obese freaks that you can meet in the streets. It is at a point that in SF it is a real human pollution i would say that become quite depressing. Eastern Europe and Russia don't give me this feeling even in some industrial shitholes that I have visited. I guess it is because in rich countries the welfare it is good enough to make all those freaks surviving while the natural selection play its role in other places.

I like USA because of their innovations, entrepreneurs, movie & music scene and things like that.
But on the other side, US cities seem to me like a terrible place to live, and most of them do not look much nicer than eastern european industrial shit holes. Plus, in EE shithole your chances of getting robbed are close to zero.

[Jack198]

(10-29-2014 09:04 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

(10-29-2014 05:06 PM)Global Entry Wrote:  

Other than the basic overseas earnings exception, US citizens and residents have been taxable on their worldwide income for as long as the modern tax code has been in place. Sure, there are ways to defer and deferral is the primary method of tax planning for income tax (not for estate and gift), but ultimately, when funds are repatriated they are taxable. Money earned by an individual in a foreign bank account is immediately taxable. And earnings through foreign joint ventures and partnerships, yes, immediately taxable.

Please, let's discuss this at length. I can't get clear answers anywhere and I trust your words than I would a random internet source.

I am curious about, "when funds are repatriated they are taxable." Can you provide some clarification? Perhaps we can even discuss privately.

I am totally clueless in this realm. My earnings are taxed in Vietnam and the remainder is deposited into my US bank account via wire. I can prove physical presence, and therefore I won't have to pay federal income tax on my first $102,500. Is there anything else I need to know? From what you're saying here, it seems like there is more to this.

Yes - one thing to keep in mind if you are earning money overseas as an independent contractor (not a salaried employee for someone else), aside from the income exclusion of $102,500 (assuming that is the current number), you are not exempt from any of the self employment tax (Social Security/FICA). I got nailed on this a few years ago after working overseas for a year and trusting some idiot accountant who didn't even know this. IRS cut me a bit of a break but I still had to pay a couple thousand in late fees and fines. I'm not overseas anymore but I do my own taxes now.

[kazz]

The problem with the west, especially the USA is the catch22 of human nature in relation to capitalism/consumerism, the better something gets the more you expect/feel entitled to; feminism for example reached there goal long ago, but they push for more and more, and will continue to until they are stopped. The other thing is the women, though not all of them, are the most entitled of all. Feminism started this, but men let them do it, of course men are not to blame or even the first wave feminists, we cant see into the future. Its great that now men are fighting back. It is utterly mind boggling (well actually its not) that these women do not see that men created everything they take for granted every minute of everyday.

[Global Baller]

It now costs $2,350 to legally renounce US citizenship.

http://rt.com/usa/183972-fee-renounce-us-citizenship/

[Enigma]

My situation is I will be living abroad more than 330 days (at least) out of the year.

But, as a freelancer, a decent portion of my income comes from US-based clients.

As far as I can tell, I am NOT eligible for the foreign based exception on those earnings?

But the thing is, most clients are not reporting that income (I'm sure many are claiming the money paid as a business expense, but they haven't had me fill out a W9 and don't have my tax information). Neither is the third party they pay me through (freelancing sites).

Also, I pay the third party fees out of any money I make there. Technically, I pay the client's fees as well based on how I price my work. I believe it's about 8.5% for each side.

I'm guessing that would be deductible? Seems like paying 17% out of every dollar in business expenses would lead to a decent break.

Or would I simply report the income minus the fees?

Obviously I'm not going to file my taxes solely off the advice of people from an internet forum, I'm just trying to get a general idea of how hard I'm going to get fucked and I know I'm not the only person in this situation.

If anyone has any tips or workarounds on how I could reduce my tax burden in the future, that'd be awesome too. I actually don't think it's that hard for Americans to get a bank account in the Phils, though I may be completely wrong.