[WestIndianArchie]

(10-28-2014 12:16 PM)RichieP Wrote:  

It's all about convincing them that they really will get that return on investment. TBH, I might have bought a program like this a couple of years ago - online or offline *if I was convinced it really was the step-by-step, "inside tactics" instruction to a solid freelance income*.

Or the information could actually turn people some profits.

Otherwise it's another Warrior Forum type scam.

WIA

[Enigma]

I think some people are a little confused about the market that he's trying to target.

Obviously someone who's already into internet marketing isn't going to pay for a course to learn how to freelance.

Obviously someone isn't going to fly to Cambodia to attend a seminar.

The goal is to appeal to the random guy who's on a backpacking expedition after finishing college, an expat who'd like to trade a little free time for some extra cash, etc. He's already there and is completely unfamiliar with location independent income and the like (90% of the world). Or he's just too overwhelmed and thinks he can't do it.

You say, "hey, buddy, what if I told you that you don't have to go home in a month and could live here forever? For $[x], I'll show you exactly how to do it and even help you land your first client".

[Beyond Borders]

Yeah, Enigma is right.

I'm well aware that I could shoot for the moon on this thing, but I'm at a stage in my life where I want to simplify, not make life more complicated. J.J. Luna wrote in one of this books once that he always asks himself before taking on a new venture, "Will this make my life more complicated?" If the answer is yes, he decides not to do it, even if the payout will be big, and that's kept him from ever having employees or partners.

He's not ridiculously wealthy, but he is a self-made millionaire a few times over, and I like the way he thinks. If I could make some extra sidescratch while freelancing and then drop off the radar for a while to go exploring and write some more books, I would be a happy man. And I think doing something like this when I felt like it with a premade course I'd already put together would deliver some very decent side-scratch indeed without getting too carried away.

Another thing to keep in mind is that, like Enigma said, a lot of these are guys who have no idea how to do this at all, or even that the industries exist. This is who I was when I started, and I've met a ton of these guys while on the road. Just an informational course with a lot of good advice to get them up and running if they actually use it would be something people would pay for, in my opinion. I could offer upsells, like more hands-on training and maybe a more-developed info product, but I think I could make money on this at even the most basic level.

Also, keep in mind that being a "published author" with a well-marketed presence online will provide credibility I can leverage when getting sign-ups. Consider all the people in your home city who pay money for community education courses on how to be a travel writer, how to paint, etc. I'll be amping it up a bit more than that, and it's a real income-producer, but the fact that people spend money on that type of thing says to me they would spend money on this.

Then you've got the fact that these people are coming to paradise and blowing a bunch of cash on little holiday package adventures. Then homeboy's girl comes across this course being put on that very week (a one-time thing, no less - it must be fate) that will teach them to keep the vacation alive forever. Maybe for the more simplified version $1000 would be a stretch (though that price point is realistic with the right components and positioning), but you could definetely get these people to lay down some dough if they saw it was legit.

A small group of people for a 3-day event and then it's back out on the water for me to do some more writing. Come back in to generate some more client work and do a couple workshops if i need the money or if my books aren't picking up yet. When I feel like it and am in a place with a lot of tourist turn-over, I could hang out for months if I saw fit, running it again and again.

I've gotten some pm's from people asking about more hands-on training too (I'll make sure to get back to you), so I think there's definitey a market for that too, and like the workshops I could take people on when and only when I feel like putting in the time.

Some great feedback here though, and I'll be sure to soak it in. I'll reply directly to some of your comments in a bit.

[Beyond Borders]

delete

[Beyond Borders]

(10-28-2014 09:16 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(10-28-2014 12:16 PM)RichieP Wrote:  

It's all about convincing them that they really will get that return on investment. TBH, I might have bought a program like this a couple of years ago - online or offline *if I was convinced it really was the step-by-step, "inside tactics" instruction to a solid freelance income*.

Or the information could actually turn people some profits.

Otherwise it's another Warrior Forum type scam.

WIA

WIA, maybe I'm reading your comment wrong, but I have helped multiple people from this forum create location independent incomes. What I'm talking about putting on offer with this is legit advice.

That said, I don't think hand-holding is the way to go with this. This type of thing, as usual, is far too dependent on the student's own effort. And as we all know, people willing to put out appropriate effort when push comes to shove are few and far between.

As far as whether or not I can convince people the offer is legit, let's just continue this conversation as if I can. Every business has this marketing challenge - some people will be convinced and buy a ticket, and others won't.

My main question here is how much people think a fair price would be for a ticket to such an event, assuming they're convinced it's not a scam. There are a lot of guys who have done some traveling on here, and a lot of them have wished they didn't have to go home to their job, so it's an obvious place for feedback.

Another way to think about this is to compare it to what people pay for TEFL training, minus the job placement but with a far, far higher ceiling to potential earnings.

[Switch]

You have to consider the type of person who would end up taking this course when deciding on a price. People considering freelance writing to make a living probably aren't rolling in cash. This works the other way too, people with a lot of cash probably aren't considering freelance writing to keep their travel dreams alive. Personally $500 would be the upper limit of what I would spend on a course/workshop of this sort. I believe that would be the number for a lot of other people too. Anything more expensive and they'll end up saying "fuck that shit I'll just figure it out on my own."

Wish you well should you decide to do this. I'm sure there is a market out there. Great potential.

[WestIndianArchie]

(10-28-2014 11:23 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(10-28-2014 09:16 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(10-28-2014 12:16 PM)RichieP Wrote:  

It's all about convincing them that they really will get that return on investment. TBH, I might have bought a program like this a couple of years ago - online or offline *if I was convinced it really was the step-by-step, "inside tactics" instruction to a solid freelance income*.

Or the information could actually turn people some profits.

Otherwise it's another Warrior Forum type scam.

WIA

WIA, maybe I'm reading your comment wrong, but I have helped multiple people from this forum create location independent incomes. What I'm talking about putting on offer with this is legit advice.

That said, I don't think hand-holding is the way to go with this. This type of thing, as usual, is far too dependent on the student's own effort. And as we all know, people willing to put out appropriate effort when push comes to shove are few and far between.

As far as whether or not I can convince people the offer is legit, let's just continue this conversation as if I can. Every business has this marketing challenge - some people will be convinced and buy a ticket, and others won't.

My main question here is how much people think a fair price would be for a ticket to such an event, assuming they're convinced it's not a scam. There are a lot of guys who have done some traveling on here, and a lot of them have wished they didn't have to go home to their job, so it's an obvious place for feedback.

Another way to think about this is to compare it to what people pay for TEFL training, minus the job placement but with a far, far higher ceiling to potential earnings.

I'm not doubting your credentials BB. I've learned things from your posts.

But this phrase rubs me the wrong way.

" It's all about convincing them that they really will get that return on investment."

And the rest of the "internet marketing convincing tools" in his advice like DOUBLE YOUR MONEY back, et cetera - screams SCAM. Warrior Forum, BlackHatWorld type stuff.

The modern way to sell the same type of thing is what Chris Guillebeau is doing with his World Domination summit. For whatever reason, good feelings sells better than actual good information.

WIA

[worldwidetraveler]

(10-29-2014 02:03 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

I'm not doubting your credentials BB. I've learned things from your posts.

But this phrase rubs me the wrong way.

" It's all about convincing them that they really will get that return on investment."

And the rest of the "internet marketing convincing tools" in his advice like DOUBLE YOUR MONEY back, et cetera - screams SCAM. Warrior Forum, BlackHatWorld type stuff.

The modern way to sell the same type of thing is what Chris Guillebeau is doing with his World Domination summit. For whatever reason, good feelings sells better than actual good information.

WIA

WIA, I think you're reading too much into the verbage used.

It isn't a scam if it produces the results it said it will.

Make no mistake, no matter what you do you will be selling yourself and what you have to offer. It could be simply giving away free information to convince people you know what you're talking about and that you can help them.

Information is worthless. It's what we can do with it that makes it valuable. Most time, if not all, it comes down to how that end outcome makes us feel. That means good feelings will make us purchase as well as bad feelings. That also means the same information isn't as valuable to each individual.

[RichieP]

WIA, I certainly wouldn't recommend positioning it like anything I've seen on the warrior forum. That stuff feels like bottom-of-the-barrel, the exact opposite of "premium"

I'll clarify - I don't mean *tell* people they'll get a great return on investment, I mean *convince* them of it... (Copywriting 101: sell, don't tell).

None of that warrior forum stuff ever convinced me of anything. It "told" me alot, (often in capital letters, like you point out) but didn't convince. The difference is in the marketing/copywriting and the actual proof+credibility that you can deliver on the results you promise.

When someone believes in their heart that they're going to make their money back and much more, they'll be incentivized to buy.

But yes, use the language that resonates with the target market, whatever that may be.

BTW, outside of selling IM products, IM techniques actually work really, really well *if the product also engenders trust, credibility and delivers on its promise*. The problem with WF is everyone has read Frank Kern, thinks they know "Mind Control" and uses their "tactics" to sell absolute rubbish. That's why you associate persuasion techniques with scams. But good copywriting+ positioning sells great products much, much better than poor copywriting+positioning.

[WestIndianArchie]

I have been set straight. I appreciate you taking the time to clarify Richie P.

(10-29-2014 03:26 PM)RichieP Wrote:  

WIA, I certainly wouldn't recommend positioning it like anything I've seen on the warrior forum. That stuff feels like bottom-of-the-barrel, the exact opposite of "premium"

I'll clarify - I don't mean *tell* people they'll get a great return on investment, I mean *convince* them of it... (Copywriting 101: sell, don't tell).

None of that warrior forum stuff ever convinced me of anything. It "told" me alot, (often in capital letters, like you point out) but didn't convince. The difference is in the marketing/copywriting and the actual proof+credibility that you can deliver on the results you promise.

When someone believes in their heart that they're going to make their money back and much more, they'll be incentivized to buy.

But yes, use the language that resonates with the target market, whatever that may be.

BTW, outside of selling IM products, IM techniques actually work really, really well *if the product also engenders trust, credibility and delivers on its promise*. The problem with WF is everyone has read Frank Kern, thinks they know "Mind Control" and uses their "tactics" to sell absolute rubbish. That's why you associate persuasion techniques with scams. But good copywriting+ positioning sells great products much, much better than poor copywriting+positioning.