[Chaos]

Guys, I need some opinions about when it comes to bulking up.
Right now I'm lifting heavily every day, following the Body of a Spartan workout.

I usually eat a diet low of carbs with a lot of meat and animal fats. It keeps me lean and feeling good but I have a feeling that it's hard to put on muscles without eating carbs. I have always been quite carb sensitive.

Well,during the last week I have added potatoes, more vegetables and a few slices of bread to my diet. I still eat a ton of meat,eggs and animal fats.

Well the result is that I feel bloated and I have definitely gained bodyfat.
I don't like what I see and how I feel and I'm thinking about cutting the carbs out again. Maybe the problem is that I'm eating too much now, but when I'm eating a low carb/highfat diet I can eat how much I want until I'm not hungry anymore without gaining a single gram of fat.

Is there any guideline to follow here?

I found it very easy to cut and get lean, that's easy for me.
But I find it hard to bulk up and build muscles without gaining a lot of bodyfat on the same time.

How can I find the magic middleway here?
I'm lost here.

Any help is appreciated.

[Ensam]

It's unlikely you gained much fat in a week. More likely your body used the bump in carb intake to top off it's glycogen stores. One gram of glycogen binds three to four grams of water so that's where most of the weight/bloating is coming from. Carbs are also less satiating so you'll probably have to be more conscious of your fat/protein intake in order to avoid overeating. A slide of bread won't make you feel much fuller and might even make you hungrier (there's a reason restaurants have free bread). Carbs will help you lift heavier and get better gains but everything in moderation. If you're worried about it just eat more fruits and vegetables - skip the potatoes and bread.

Edited to add: Somewhat paradoxically - drinking more water will help with the bloating. Drink until you piss clear with no odor.

[Chaos]

Of course not that much, but I gain weight easily as fuck.
You know how it is to feel bloated.
I have never seen anyone who gain as fast as me.

But good point.
As I seem to be carb sensitive I should stick to fruits and vegetables.
And skip potatoes. When I'm home I'm juicing quite a lot per day and that have never been a problem, neither do I swoll up.

[viajero]

(10-15-2014 07:49 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

Of course not that much, but I gain weight easily as fuck.
You know how it is to feel bloated.
I have never seen anyone who gain as fast as me.

But good point.
As I seem to be carb sensitive I should stick to fruits and vegetables.
And skip potatoes. When I'm home I'm juicing quite a lot per day and that have never been a problem, neither do I swoll up.

Whenever I feel bloated it always feels good to get a nice sweat going. Maybe throw in some cardio or wear sweats and a hoodie the next few times you work out and see if you feel less bloated (and like Ensam said drink plenty of water, you're trying to feel less bloated, not do a dehyrdation weight-cut). Not trying to spread bro-science here, just what works for me.

I would check out some of the IF threads too, since a lot of guys are advocating it for exactly what you're trying to do.

[Ensam]

(10-15-2014 07:49 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

Of course not that much, but I gain weight easily as fuck.
You know how it is to feel bloated.
I have never seen anyone who gain as fast as me.

But good point.
As I seem to be carb sensitive I should stick to fruits and vegetables.
And skip potatoes. When I'm home I'm juicing quite a lot per day and that have never been a problem, neither do I swoll up.

I feel your pain. I had rice yesterday and weigh 3 lbs more this morning then I did yesterday. I know from experience that it'll go away in a few days if I stay hydrated.

[Chaos]

^ Yeah. I have done a lot of IF without the intention of doing it.
Works excellent and I'm feeling great and lean.

I still don't know how it works when it comes to bulking up.

Bulking seem to be a very individual thing of what works and whats not.

[RexImperator]

Could it be that your muscles are used to being somewhat glycogen depleted since you follow a low carb regime... When you add in rice and potatoes they're going to swell up, and you'll retain more water.

[TigerMandingo]

Serious question, and I'm not trolling you or anything: What's wrong with being cut and lean? Are you dissatisfied with such a body composition and you have a real desire to get big?

[Chaos]

(10-15-2014 09:34 AM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  

Serious question, and I'm not trolling you or anything: What's wrong with being cut and lean? Are you dissatisfied with such a body composition and you have a real desire to get big?

There is nothing wrong with that and I never said it was.

But I want to get stronger and build more muscles.
So yes, I have a desire to get bigger.

[Chaos]

(10-15-2014 09:07 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Could it be that your muscles are used to being somewhat glycogen depleted since you follow a low carb regime... When you add in rice and potatoes they're going to swell up, and you'll retain more water.

Could be. Just sucks to gain a lot of fat aswell.

Maybe carb cycling could be an option.

[Seth_Rose]

(10-15-2014 04:42 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

...Well the result is that I feel bloated and I have definitely gained bodyfat.
I don't like what I see and how I feel and I'm thinking about cutting the carbs out again. Maybe the problem is that I'm eating too much now, but when I'm eating a low carb/highfat diet I can eat how much I want until I'm not hungry anymore without gaining a single gram of fat.

Is there any guideline to follow here?

I found it very easy to cut and get lean, that's easy for me.
But I find it hard to bulk up and build muscles without gaining a lot of bodyfat on the same time.

How can I find the magic middleway here?
I'm lost here.

Any help is appreciated.

Ideally, when gaining weight the fat gain would be kept to a minimum. This is called 'Lean-Bulking', which would be the magical middleway you're looking for.

The problem with lean bulking, at least in my experience, was that I was too afraid to gain any fat so I kept my calories just above maintenance, and after the end of my 'Lean Bulk' I hadn't gained any noticeable size.

Unless you're on certain "supplements" or have a super precise and disciplined approach to your diet, you can't have your cake and eat it too (unless you don't mind gaining fat ).

My suggestion is to eat a surplus of calories to the point where you're consistently moving the scale. Don't eat a lot of junk food, but by eating carbs like pasta and rice, you may get a little bloated, but you're not going to be a fatass.

[Giovonny]

(10-15-2014 04:42 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

I feel bloated and I have definitely gained bodyfat.

Is there any guideline to follow here?

How can I find the magic middleway here?

I suggest...

Higher quality carbs. (Oatmeal, yams/sweet potatoes, wild rice, etc.)

More vegetables and fruit.

Less bread. Less Gluten. Only eat whole grain bread.

More beans and legumes. Give your body a rest from meat a few times a week -- Lentils, quinoa, chickpeas,etc.

Try to avoid sugar and processed foods.

Drink more water.

***

No carbs in the evening! Only eat carbs at breakfast and lunch!

Only protein and vegetables/fruit at night.

***

A little bit more cardio

[Uzisuicide]

If you are trying to gain mass then you have to eat carbs. Your body will break down muscle for energy to fuel workouts if you don't. Get some quality branch chain amino acids and take them pre workout especially for cardio. That way your body doesn't have to break down muscle to get them. If you want to bulk you have to put in the calories and then cut later on down the road to sculpt your physique. Bulk then cut... Find a way to boost your testosterone levels. That will help keep you lean.

[The Lizard of Oz]

Chaos, you can probably guess what I'm going to ask about...

Sleep.

Are you sleeping enough hours every night? Is it deep sleep that is leaving you well-rested?

It's very hard to grow muscle if you're not getting great sleep with all the proper cycles. Deep sleep is when you get that endogenous growth hormone secretion which builds muscle.

You're lifting heavy every day -- that means you're tearing a lot of muscle. I'm not sure that it's a good idea to lift heavy every single day (I think there is a lot to be said for rest days) but in any case -- at some point all that muscle you're tearing needs to be rebuilt. Deep sleep is that "some point".

Something to think about. It's not just a matter of diet. I would bet that if you're lifting heavy and getting great sleep every night you can bulk up on most reasonable diets.

[tattiemasher]

Although I'm not big by any means, I've went through different swings within my own weight group, getting bigger and smaller. The main difference it makes to me is that when I tried to get bigger by adding carbs, I gained far more fat than I wanted. Have you tried sticking with low carb and just adding more red meat, greek yoghurt etc?

[Chaos]

(10-15-2014 06:04 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Chaos, you can probably guess what I'm going to ask about...

Sleep.

Are you sleeping enough hours every night? Is it deep sleep that is leaving you well-rested?

It's very hard to grow muscle if you're not getting great sleep with all the proper cycles. Deep sleep is when you get that endogenous growth hormone secretion which builds muscle.

You're lifting heavy every day -- that means you're tearing a lot of muscle. I'm not sure that it's a good idea to lift heavy every single day (I think there is a lot to be said for rest days) but in any case -- at some point all that muscle you're tearing needs to be rebuilt. Deep sleep is that "some point".

Something to think about. It's not just a matter of diet. I would bet that if you're lifting heavy and getting great sleep every night you can bulk up on most reasonable diets.

Yes, now I'm sleeping like a log.
I was very close to buy a light therapy box but now my sleeping rthym is in order again.

[Alexanderthelarge]

Carbs are not harmful to you, if you eat the right type of carbs; complex carbs, I'm referring to things like sweet potatoes, oats, brown rice etc.

Also how much cardio do you do? And what is your body type? For me, I'm Asian and I'm 21; my body burns food up very quickly so I eat a lot without gaining much bodyfat

[Chaos]

White potatoes and sweet potatoes.
Not a such a big difference huh?

[Alexanderthelarge]

Difference is in the glycemic index my friend. White potatoes are high glycemic index, sweet potatoes as with all complex carbs are low glycemic index

[Arado]

What is the timing for carbs when bulking? I've heard that you need quick release sugar to get the protein into muscle right after a workout? Or can I stick to slow release carbs (veggies, legumes, quinoa, oats?) after a workout and just rely on quick release beforehand?

I'm still cutting while the weather is moderately warm then will try to go for bulking from December-February so am starting to think about the transition.

Another question regarding bulking and cutting:

Do most people gain 10 lbs muscle + 10 lbs fat over the winter, then lose 10 lbs fat and 5 lbs fat when they cut? (5 lbs net lean muscle gain)

Or do they gain 10 lbs muscle and 5 lbs fat, then lose the 5 lbs fat. (5 lbs lean muscle gain)

[Alexanderthelarge]

Simple carbs once u wake up because your body has been fasting while you were asleep.

Simple carbs immediately after working out to get that insulin spike.

Complex carbs throughout the rest of the day.

It really depends on the individual. There's no hard and fast rule, everybody is different. For me I can't really be bothered with how much bodyfat I carry (although I am quite lean) I do powerlifting and my programme and diet are pretty much geared towards being strong not muscular.

If you're concerned about the bodyfat, iup your cardio. Go on a ketogenic diet.

[Alexanderthelarge]

For me, I do IIFYM. Even though I said I don't care about bodyfat, I still eat relatively clean for the sake of my health and overall well being. Protein, unsaturated fat and complex carbs; you can't go wrong with that. Also, try using coconut oil to cook your foods. I don't have time to cook everyday (which is why I do iifym) and being in the military, the food we get is shit (I'm talking fried foods and a lot of white rice) I surive on oatmeal and protein powder and sweet potatoes and eggs. Also, I add coconut oil in my protein shake.

[FretDancer]

(10-18-2014 12:15 AM)Alexanderthelarge Wrote:  

For me, I do IIFYM. Even though I said I don't care about bodyfat, I still eat relatively clean for the sake of my health and overall well being. Protein, unsaturated fat and complex carbs; you can't go wrong with that. Also, try using coconut oil to cook your foods. I don't have time to cook everyday (which is why I do iifym) and being in the military, the food we get is shit (I'm talking fried foods and a lot of white rice) I surive on oatmeal and protein powder and sweet potatoes and eggs. Also, I add coconut oil in my protein shake.

Any comments regarding using coconut oil vs extra virgin olive oil to cook meals?

[Chaos]

(10-18-2014 12:19 AM)FretDancer Wrote:  

(10-18-2014 12:15 AM)Alexanderthelarge Wrote:  

For me, I do IIFYM. Even though I said I don't care about bodyfat, I still eat relatively clean for the sake of my health and overall well being. Protein, unsaturated fat and complex carbs; you can't go wrong with that. Also, try using coconut oil to cook your foods. I don't have time to cook everyday (which is why I do iifym) and being in the military, the food we get is shit (I'm talking fried foods and a lot of white rice) I surive on oatmeal and protein powder and sweet potatoes and eggs. Also, I add coconut oil in my protein shake.

Any comments regarding using coconut oil vs extra virgin olive oil to cook meals?

^ Use real butter man. With everything.
Saturated animal fats is the way to go.

[FretDancer]

So let me get this right,

Use coconut oil + real butter to cook, and no olive oil whatsoever. Is this right?

I am not an expert cook or anything of the sort, I am just analyzing your answers and opinions to see if I make the switch.