[WestIndianArchie]

And you don't?

1) assume she's a "good girl"
2) assume you've had sex

WIA

[redbeard]

No.

You didn't sign any papers or agreement that would say if she put out, you'd have a relationship.

In fact, hook-up culture dictates the exact opposite - that sex =/= relationship.

If you don't want to have a relationship with her, that's your choice. A is A. It doesn't matter what your reasoning is.

[Travesty]

If you know in your gut she is a good girl and will want one without her mentioning it before sex you are contributing directly to all the behavior we dislike about women by punishing them for acting in a feminine and desirable way.

So yes you should feel a bit guilty if not (leave her better than you found her male hamster speech), you are just rationalizing your behavior for selfish needs.

There are plenty of hot sluts around that offer crazy no strings sex already.

You won't have a world with girls that have genuine smiles and warm caring personalities if you pump and dump girls that play by the rules and still get screwed over. How women are treated by men in intimate relationships has a huge impact on their psychology and general well-being, we all know this.

[Pride male]

Should women feel guilty if they don't fuck a guy who pays for dinner?

[AneroidOcean]

(10-03-2014 02:34 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

And you don't?

1) assume she's a "good girl"
2) assume you've had sex

WIA

It is the man's prerogative to escalate physicality, it is the woman's prerogative to escalate commitment.

If she doesn't escalate commitment until after we've been physical, I don't feel guilty at all.

Do I want to hurt someone's feelings? No.

I'm in a minority that prefers being as up front (in a tactful manner) as possible and seeing where the chips may land.

I feel bad if a girl who I care about is upset because she wants more than I do, but I don't feel guilty.

(10-03-2014 02:37 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

If you know in your gut she is a good girl and will want one without her mentioning it before sex you are contributing directly to all the behavior we dislike about women by punishing them for acting in a feminine and desirable way.

Disagree, as it's her responsibility to make this clear and pursue commitment/relationship before physicality. Don't the women have some kind of personal responsibility/accountability? The complete lack of personal responsibility is what's killing women this day in age.

Also, how can you know what they want? Personally, I'm not much of a mind reader.

(10-03-2014 03:15 PM)Pride male Wrote:  

Should women feel guilty if they don't fuck a guy who pays for dinner?

They should feel guilty if they pretended to be into the guy in order to trick a free dinner from him, never intending to do anything but take advantage of him.

[BlurredSevens]

Should I feel guilty? No.

Do I feel guilty? Yes.

[heavy]

Guilty? No

Sorry for her because of our society? Yes.

The great new world feminism has created has killed the good girl.

[Mr. B]

No. She wants what she wants...right now. Why waste energy on somethig that changes (or has the potential to change) with the weather?

[Ensam]

This is what happened with the last serious girl in my rotation.

I laid out what I wanted and my expectations early on:
Regularly sex, occasionally I'd take her out and we'd do something fun but she shouldn't expect it. She didn't get to monopolize my time and there were no commitments.

It worked great for six months then she decided she wanted a relationship and I said, 'good luck'. We're still friendly when we see each other - if she wants to go back to our original arrangement she's welcome back anytime. No harm no foul.

As long as you're clear with what you want from the get go there's nothing to feel guilty about.

[kaotic]

If she KNOWS up front what's going down, she catches feelings and wants a relationship ?

No you shouldn't feel guilty, cut her. It frees you up and doesn't lead her on anymore.

If she DOESN'T know whats up, catches feelings, and wants a relationship ?

Then yeah you should question what you're doing, either tell her what you want and hold your frame. Or eject out the relationship.


The world doesn't need anymore bad vibes, only positivity.

[Old Fritz]

Depends on who you are.

I don't feel guilty.

[PrimeTime32]

Should I feel guilty, no. Did I feel guilty, no. As a young man in his 20's I have dreams and aspirations and being in a relationship will get in the way of me achieving these goals. Honestly I think a man who wants anything worthwhile in life should wait until he is at least 35 to settle down with a much younger woman in her prime ages if he desires.

[jariel]

If you're going to play this game and win, you have to leave feeling guilty in the locker room.

[Travesty]

I think in today's hook up culture it is not easy to be a good girl.

Because of the messages they get from society, asking a guy for committment before sex, is seen as archaic and weird even if that's what they want.

I don't blame women for what men allowed to happen.

If you can't tell if a true good girl wants a LTR before you have sex then you most likely aren't paying attention and don't care.

It isn't mind reading.

Men will always be the more responsible sex that is why we are expected to and should
lead.

[rottenapple]

(10-03-2014 04:29 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

I think in today's hook up culture it is not easy to be a good girl.

Because of the messages they get from society, asking a guy for committment before sex, is seen as archaic and weird even if that's what they want.

I don't blame women for what men allowed to happen.

If you can't tell if a true good girl wants a LTR before you have sex then you most likely aren't paying attention and don't care.

It isn't mind reading.

Men will always be the more responsible sex that is why we are expected to and should
lead.

I've had sex with girls very quickly only later to find out that it is actually extremely rare for the girl (or even first time). And this info coming not only from her. It happens, so no you can't always know if a girl is a good girl or not.

In general, due to modern day society, I approach every girl thinking she is not. And even if afterwards it appears she is, I still won't feel guilty. Sex is a mutual decision, it's not a gift from women to men and everyone is resposible for their own actions.

A better question would be if you should feel guilty when a girl thinks your in a relationship and you still fuck around on the side. Most people would say yes, but if you go to evolution theory, people as animals, etc. you could also built an argument against that.

[Travesty]

My thoughts are idealistic on this subject and not realistic. The virgins and lower N count girls I've been with have been more sweet and caring without a doubt.

I think their naivety shouldn't be punished and yes they deserve more "looking out for" than your average party or Tinder girl.

I White Knight hard.

[Parlay44]

Feelings be damned. They always get you in trouble. If she puts the lid on the cookie jar AND you enjoy fucking her(she could be a best lay) then agree to the relationship. No one says you have to be faithful.

[kaotic]

(10-03-2014 06:12 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

Feelings be damned. They always get you in trouble. If she puts the lid on the cookie jar AND you enjoy fucking her(she could be a best lay) then agree to the relationship. No one says you have to be faithful.

Gaming and morality has always clashed.

Some men tow the line, others are one side of it.

Feelings do get you in trouble, keeping them in check shouldn't be difficult for a seasoned player.

However, we rail against unworthy women and how they're just fuckable.

Yet when we do find a "good-girl" we still do the same thing.

To me it's a Catch 22

[WestIndianArchie]

(10-03-2014 05:27 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

My thoughts are idealistic on this subject and not realistic. The virgins and lower N count girls I've been with have been more sweet and caring without a doubt.

I think their naivety shouldn't be punished and yes they deserve more "looking out for" than your average party or Tinder girl.

I White Knight hard.

So one should wife up every good girl he bangs?
Or
One should feel guilty about a chick catching feelings?

WIA

[AneroidOcean]

(10-03-2014 05:27 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

My thoughts are idealistic on this subject and not realistic. The virgins and lower N count girls I've been with have been more sweet and caring without a doubt.

I think their naivety shouldn't be punished and yes they deserve more "looking out for" than your average party or Tinder girl.

I White Knight hard.

I was going to respond, but I think your post sums it up perfectly. No hate here, I can appreciate some idealism from time to time.

I'm with a girl now, who never pushed our relationship/commitment outright, but it was clear through her consistent actions that she very much desired it, yet understood that I might not immediately agree or go along with it. She wanted me to desire it. I only briefly spent any time with another girl very early on into our dating. Now many months later I don't call her my gf but I don't correct anyone else that says it. I usually introduce her as "my girl." For some reason I prefer it to "girlfriend."

I really thought for a long time, that the guy should push for the relationship as he's "pursuing" the girl, until I realized that it was counter-productive. I've been in a number of relationships and have never had hand like this.

[L M McCoy]

If she's a virgin or has had 1 partner then yeah. If not, 0 fucks given on my part

[Vaun]

If its a girl thats been really good to me for a long time, and I know who views me as her future. Especially if I know its hurt her badly. I'm talking about one I've broken up with after being with her for many months or a year or so. After traveling together, sex 100's of times, her bending over backwards for me, meeting her family. Basically me stupidly taking it too far.

[Mr. Butterworth]

I personally always feel guilty if I really dig the girl.

I like to have little day dreams about us being together in some stupid fantasy type way. all the while knowing it can never be.

I believe we all dream and wish the fanasty was real. unfortunately, it's not. and she knows it's not. simply refusing to open her eyes

and if it was "to be". how long before the inevitable parting happens?

better to leave her in a "fresh" state than stale

[Frontenac]

In a situation like this, her having sex with you is required.

A 'good girl' is difficult to quantify. If it's by her standards, then they are likely completely wrong, and should be disregarded. In this situation, the answer is: NO.

If you're man who has been in the game for a while, plowed through 25+ women, and knows the typical slut traits (which this girl is not showing), in addition to you getting to know her over the period of at least a year, then maybe.

Ultimately it is not about what you feel, but what you want.

[Beyond Borders]

I think you should if you lead them on or are dishonest or misleading about your intentions.

"Guilt" has strong connotations for me, though - it implies carrying it around as baggage and beating yourself up about it. Learn from your mistakes and move on; we all make them. Just don't fall into the habit of freely making mistakes with the intention to forgive yourself later. haha

Anyways, my point is that it's not necessarily something you should emotionally punish yourself for. It's just something a man should avoid doing.

If you're clear about your intentions, on the other hand, and don't send the wrong message, it's on her. Easier not to feel guilty in theory than practice. In my experience, women tend to get more fired up when guys are afraid of commitment, they say it's okay, and then they make it a subconscious (or conscious mission to change his mind. This rarely ends well.

But what can you do?