[jay_penetratem]

In the uk there has been a lot of controversy about this footballers release from prison.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29656157

Apparently the girl was drunk and came willingly to his hotel room.

What do you guys think about this?

[Phoenix]

The case:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Evans_and_McDonald

Apparently the reason was she was so wasted consent was impossible, and her wastedness was caught on CCTV.

[jay_penetratem]

U think he should have gone jail? Useful link by the way

[HawkWrites]

"Came willingly to his hotel room"

Not rape. Move on.

[jay_penetratem]

That's what im saying. No decent girl gets drunk then goes off to the hotel with a footballer of all people.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Fuck that - no rape of course.

If I get wasted enough and fuck a girl that gets pregnant, it is my fault for being so stupid. I cannot say I was raped or taken advantage of.

Besides - people do things under influence of alcohol which they potentially would do when being sober. It is not as if every drunk starts slaughtering his family and then pleads - I was drunk, I am innocent your honor.

If a guy is a nasty asshole when drunk, then has that darkness inside of him all the time - it just does not show. And if a girl does a gang bang when drunk, she has likely that fantasy when being sober.

@Jay - "decent" girls are girls, who are doing the very same things, but have not been caught. And the truly decent ones know fully well that they could get weak when spending time with an attractive man under the influence of alcohol. The pure girl knows that there is no future for them together and refuses his offer of drinks. But 99% of women would say yes and the Beta Male perception of what "decent" girls do or don't do is just Blue Pill nonsense.

[Phoenix]

Regarding people saying 'not rape', hypothetical scenario:

The girl has already passed out. Man then takes off her clothes, lubes up his dick, and has sex with her unconscious self. Is this rape?

That is clearly a rape (albiet a lesser one than using force while she is conscious) since she has no capacity to deny consent.
If a woman had no capacity to deny consent, and there is evidence of this, and he fucked her nontheless, it is a rape.

The issue is around where you draw the line at 'inability to deny consent'.

[jay_penetratem]

She already had sex with another guy that night as well. "Consensually" of course. The feminists rallying to her cause leave that part out.

[jay_penetratem]

Yeah i think every girl has a secret slutty episode or two that they try to forget or dont talk about. But the differences they dont try and cry rape when things didnt turn out how they wanted to. When i say decent i just mean a girl that knows not to expose her behavior in public.

[Kitsune]

I can't be the only one who saw the thread title and thought that this was going to be the new "Was this beta?" thread mixed with the "Yes means yes" law.

I was expecting things like:

"I was out in the club friday night and these two 20 year old girls were grinding up against me. One whispered in my ear that I could get a private show if I wanted. I was like, "check please!" Then we went back to the girls' place. They both stripped immediately and started to perform fellatio on me. They then got out a copy of the karma sutra and said that they liked these positions, so we tried them. But then I remember - they didn't explicitly say that they liked those positions with me, so I'm not sure they really consented. Was this rape?"

[blairnaso]

Last I checked, innocent until proven guilty is the most basic principal of America.

[Jameson]

^Case wasn't US sadly

[Ryre]

The wikipedia article doesn't give enough detail to know for sure, but looks like a big fat NO. This is an example of a woman assuming that not remembering=didn't consent, i.e. blacked out=incapacitated by alcohol. As far as I understand U.S. law, that is not necessarily true (British law may differ). A person can be blacked out but be walking, talking, and making decisions.

From the scant information in the wikipedia article, sounds like the combination of her not remembering, and a stumble caught on video, was rounded up to "incapable of consent," in defiance of the law. (That is assuming she is telling the truth, and didn't decide after the fact to cover up for her decision to get spit-roasted by two footballers by claiming not to remember it.)

[Haig]

Here is more useful links to this case

http://chedevans.com/

I think his girlfriend started this when he was imprisoned.

[turkishcandy]

During my first internship in law office, one of my daily tasks was to read through tens of criminal case files; murders, extortion and rapes. One of the cases struck me so hard, I still remember to this date:

A 30-something year-old Turkish man, let’s call him T.M, starts a relationship with a girl who’s in her early 20s. The girl’s parents are conservative and are displeased with this affair. Things heat up when T.M takes his girlfriend on vacation to another city. The father demands T.M returns his daughter, T.M refuses. The daughter talks to her father on the phone, disowns him and refuses to come back. The father gets furious and goes to the police to file a complaint. Because the girl is of legal age, there is nothing the police can do. Then, a prosecutor finds an angle, learns that the girl uses prescribed anti-depressants. And boom! Psychological disorder -> Lack of capacity -> lack of consent -> non-consentual sex -> sexual assault -> rape. T.M was charged and convicted of rape and by rape I mean having consensual sex with his girlfriend who happens to work as a clerk in an insurance firm. I was reading the case because we (the law office) had appealed to the court of appeals to reverse the sentence. He had been in prison for a few years and was still waiting for news about the appeal. I didn’t get a chance to follow up on whether they reversed his sentence or not, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

(note: Turkish laws are modern secular laws that were copied from Swiss laws)

The point is, I believe the real problem behind all the false rape allegations is in the essence of the law. What we know as 'rape', a violent taking of a woman, which has been around and practiced since the dawn of man, now corresponds to 'non-consensual sex' in the modern law. And for the last decade it's also being practiced as 'non-consensual sex' by the law enforcement and justice system. In other words, men today are being punished for a bloody and violent act, one of the most terrible tragedies that can happen to a woman, when in fact all they commit is some drunk sex. There is no way to fix this because law refers to sexual assault as sex without consent, not 'rape', and when you drink and get wasted you can't legally give consent to sex. That's it. You fuck a drunk girl and it's considered same as attacking her, forcing her down and forcing your dick in her dry pussy while punching her in the face. If in the latter case you don't hurt her beyond some point, you get the same sentence as you would get for having sex with a drunk and horny girl.

Now this doesn't seem fair to you and you go protesting and saying ''no way in hell, this is never a rape'' but in fact it is a rape because the law says so and the judges are obliged to verdict by the law. The real party to blame in this matter is the western liberal lawmakers, not the police, not the prosecutor, not the judge. A girl who you are having sex with can lose/withdraw consent for several reasons that vary from ''blacking out'', drinking, many different drugs, regret, emotional meltdown and even impulsively turning off by something ''creepy'' you did. And the moment she does this you become a rapist. Because the law says so.

The only way to fix this problem once and for all is to re-define rape in law so that no hamster-brained woman can use it to destroy innocent men's lives. I suggest these words in the new definition: ''physical assault, unconscious, force, violence'' and especially exclude words like ''(non)consent(ual), (in)capacity(ated)''.

[jay_penetratem]

That's a good insight. I just think its disgusting how slooty can abuse the law to ruin a guys career. That's why im taking video clips now. Shiit.

[Parlay44]

(10-22-2014 06:53 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

Regarding people saying 'not rape', hypothetical scenario:

The girl has already passed out. Man then takes off her clothes, lubes up his dick, and has sex with her unconscious self. Is this rape?

That is clearly a rape (albiet a lesser one than using force while she is conscious) since she has no capacity to deny consent.
If a woman had no capacity to deny consent, and there is evidence of this, and he fucked her nontheless, it is a rape.

The issue is around where you draw the line at 'inability to deny consent'.

This is a "if a tree falls in the woods argument". Since no one was there to confirm the details of how or why they had sex you can never really know if it was rape. The guy isn't going to incriminate himself and the girl can't remember. It's a big grey area.

[TheWastelander]

(10-22-2014 01:02 PM)turkishcandy Wrote:  

During my first internship in law office, one of my daily tasks was to read through tens of criminal case files; murders, extortion and rapes. One of the cases struck me so hard, I still remember to this date:

A 30-something year-old Turkish man, let’s call him T.M, starts a relationship with a girl who’s in her early 20s. The girl’s parents are conservative and are displeased with this affair. Things heat up when T.M takes his girlfriend on vacation to another city. The father demands T.M returns his daughter, T.M refuses. The daughter talks to her father on the phone, disowns him and refuses to come back. The father gets furious and goes to the police to file a complaint. Because the girl is of legal age, there is nothing the police can do. Then, a prosecutor finds an angle, learns that the girl uses prescribed anti-depressants. And boom! Psychological disorder -> Lack of capacity -> lack of consent -> non-consentual sex -> sexual assault -> rape. T.M was charged and convicted of rape and by rape I mean having consensual sex with his girlfriend who happens to work as a clerk in an insurance firm. I was reading the case because we (the law office) had appealed to the court of appeals to reverse the sentence. He had been in prison for a few years and was still waiting for news about the appeal. I didn’t get a chance to follow up on whether they reversed his sentence or not, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

(note: Turkish laws are modern secular laws that were copied from Swiss laws)

The point is, I believe the real problem behind all the false rape allegations is in the essence of the law. What we know as 'rape', a violent taking of a woman, which has been around and practiced since the dawn of man, now corresponds to 'non-consensual sex' in the modern law. And for the last decade it's also being practiced as 'non-consensual sex' by the law enforcement and justice system. In other words, men today are being punished for a bloody and violent act, one of the most terrible tragedies that can happen to a woman, when in fact all they commit is some drunk sex. There is no way to fix this because law refers to sexual assault as sex without consent, not 'rape', and when you drink and get wasted you can't legally give consent to sex. That's it. You fuck a drunk girl and it's considered same as attacking her, forcing her down and forcing your dick in her dry pussy while punching her in the face. If in the latter case you don't hurt her beyond some point, you get the same sentence as you would get for having sex with a drunk and horny girl.

Now this doesn't seem fair to you and you go protesting and saying ''no way in hell, this is never a rape'' but in fact it is a rape because the law says so and the judges are obliged to verdict by the law. The real party to blame in this matter is the western liberal lawmakers, not the police, not the prosecutor, not the judge. A girl who you are having sex with can lose/withdraw consent for several reasons that vary from ''blacking out'', drinking, many different drugs, regret, emotional meltdown and even impulsively turning off by something ''creepy'' you did. And the moment she does this you become a rapist. Because the law says so.

The only way to fix this problem once and for all is to re-define rape in law so that no hamster-brained woman can use it to destroy innocent men's lives. I suggest these words in the new definition: ''physical assault, unconscious, force, violence'' and especially exclude words like ''(non)consent(ual), (in)capacity(ated)''.

I agree with your post, but I have to point out that while the major problem is with the laws in many cases, evil people like that prosecutor in the case you mentioned had to have known that what he was doing was a bunch of B.S.

The screwed up laws are one major part of the problem, but dishonest authorities who pervert the laws are as well.

An honest person couldn't sit there and say to themselves "gee, she must've really been raped because she was on anti-depressants and can't consent" despite her saying she wasn't. That prosecutor is a scoundrel and a white knight scumbag who was responsible for putting a man in jail and likely ruining his life.

[Foolsgo1d]

I've been reading up on this case and several people who came out to defend him or state the obvious, that he has served his time and the whole affair was murky because she was not violently raped.

It has buyers remorse all over it. This girl definitely has a BF.

I'll break it down for you guys who aren't too clued up on this whole footballer shagging scene.

These girls queue up round the block for places they know will have famous guys, athletes and the like.

If you have ever seen a queue with the majority of young, hot women in it then you can bet your life savings they're there for pulling some rich/famous dick and not ladies night.

Majority of guys get denied entry. If you're known you get in. A river of pussy flows into these VIP bars. Its Vegas but in England.

Now you're telling me these girls don't go in there with the intention of snagging some guy? haha. I told my mother this girl was a complete gutter slut who went there willingly and allowed these guys to chat her up. But oh well, its the guys fault.

They probably did all sorts to her, as all little tarts do and then had a moment of clarity in the bathroom or when she told her friends. OR she was guilt-tripped by a friend and didn't want her BF to find out she isn't the precious angel he thought she was.

What is even funnier is the woman who came out to clarify this case had her daughter threatened with actual, violent rape. You know, the actual shit of nightmares?

Yeah, the same people who abhor rape wish it upon others because they had the balls to go into a public arena and clarify facts.

Some personal experience

I was in Sheffield one night and I was passing the superclub called Embrace. Multiple floors, typical dance music.

In no way shape or form was this place rammed with more women than men on any normal night. Until this D-list celebrity turned up as he was billed to on saturday night.

You should have seen the queue. For every 1 guy there was 3-4 girls. Girls you probably never see going into this club or have never seen going out were there.

He needed bouncers to keep the waves of women off him and out of the VIP area. They tried desperately to sneak in unless they were 'selected' to come in.

I was privy to information on the girl he pulled that night. Some cheerleader from Sheffield Hallam Uni. Apparently every girl knew she went back to his hotel room but she swore deaf she didn't fuck him.

Out of 110-ish girls half of them demanded to know why she didn't fuck him or at least suck him off. The other half were jealous.

That was a moment of clarity for me. A dude who is famous for Made In Chelsea, a little turd in the sea of celeb culture, can demand that sort of pussy wagon for just turning up?

You don't need game when you have fame, pussy turns up to fuck you and thats that. Whether she has a bf/husband is not up for debate.

[Phoenix]

Might point out the juxtaposition of this and the Pistorious case.

5 years for a legally grey 'incapable of consent' level of rape. Victim suffered: probably very little, had she been more sober she'd likely have been all into it, and she's probably had 'drunk wake up in strangers bed sex' before.
5 years for shooting girlfriend through bathroom door. Victim suffered: death from gunshot wounds.

Not adding up, Judges, not adding up.