Seemingly conflicting advice from the manosphere, looking for clarification,
09-10-2014, 01:58 AM
Hello, I am a new user here. Started on ReturnOfKings, read game articles and I am starting to practice irl. Going to try it out a bit on my own before seeking advice on game specifically.
However, there is some advice on women in particular where I think I have either received mixed messages or am failing to grasp something.
Of course this advice often comes from different writers who could simply have different views on these matters or use terms somewhat differently.
And for the sake of disclosure, my reasons for asking this are not simply to understand what is said regarding women for practical purposes but also for abstract ones.
I do have a desire to write later in my life after getting proper experience and would like to write female characters well.
And yes, asking a forum for their advice is not a substitute for life experience but having the right frame of reference is invaluable.
Now I'm going to get into what I am confused on and stop wasting time talking about myself. My own idea of what the answer is will also be included.
1. Female insecurity - I see this blasted and praised. Praised for being a font of alluring vulnerability and blasted for being a weakness in character.
Personally I suspect this is due to context. A girl showing her insecurity and vulnerability is attractive because it is intimate, whereas a girl hiding her insecurity behind cunty bravado is not. Meaning it is not about the existence of insecurity (as holding being insecure against women strikes me to be about reasonable as holding their menstrual cycle against them), but how they handle and behave while bearing it (again like the menstrual cycle).
2. Conformity. This can go for masculine advice as well, although among men I understand the ire very well. Masculine energy is about overcoming and achieving, something which conformity can easily be a bane to. Even if wanting men to embrace their role in society as masculine could be construed as a minor conformity; a concession to the greater social order.
However with women I am wondering if conformity is not a good thing (at times) since it is female energy to be supportive. And part of being supportive often means (and is female nature as evo psych can tell us) to fear rocking the boat.
Again I suspect it comes down to the fact that women today are not supportive, and therefore their conformity has no good side to it. They simply follow the crowd and are consumers, never producing a thing of value or being genuinely independent.
3. A girl pretending to be what you like in order to get your interest. Is this ever permissible? It is certainly suspect, that a girl would lie about who she is but it could also be seen (perhaps in a more innocent time) as endearing or even a girl taking initiative in courtship just as wearing makeup and dressing up would be. Technically doing those last two is not "being herself" so when does it stop being misguided self improvement and start being a malicious deception?
4. And lastly, this being more openended, I am curious about the standards of women. I am not going to ask this in the context of modern women as the answer is obvious (they don't deserve the men they believe they deserve) so I am instead going to form a hypothetical. Let's say a pretty, feminine, and caring girl expects a fair bit from her future spouse, is she being entitled? She seems to have fulfilled her end of the bargain.
If she still is, what if all of the above is true but she puts herself out there to find a man? Is she still entitled?
I realize this last question might seem silly and oddly specific but it is something I would like answered. Although I naturally don't expect an answer simply because I asked. As such I thank anyone who replies.
However, there is some advice on women in particular where I think I have either received mixed messages or am failing to grasp something.
Of course this advice often comes from different writers who could simply have different views on these matters or use terms somewhat differently.
And for the sake of disclosure, my reasons for asking this are not simply to understand what is said regarding women for practical purposes but also for abstract ones.
I do have a desire to write later in my life after getting proper experience and would like to write female characters well.
And yes, asking a forum for their advice is not a substitute for life experience but having the right frame of reference is invaluable.
Now I'm going to get into what I am confused on and stop wasting time talking about myself. My own idea of what the answer is will also be included.
1. Female insecurity - I see this blasted and praised. Praised for being a font of alluring vulnerability and blasted for being a weakness in character.
Personally I suspect this is due to context. A girl showing her insecurity and vulnerability is attractive because it is intimate, whereas a girl hiding her insecurity behind cunty bravado is not. Meaning it is not about the existence of insecurity (as holding being insecure against women strikes me to be about reasonable as holding their menstrual cycle against them), but how they handle and behave while bearing it (again like the menstrual cycle).
2. Conformity. This can go for masculine advice as well, although among men I understand the ire very well. Masculine energy is about overcoming and achieving, something which conformity can easily be a bane to. Even if wanting men to embrace their role in society as masculine could be construed as a minor conformity; a concession to the greater social order.
However with women I am wondering if conformity is not a good thing (at times) since it is female energy to be supportive. And part of being supportive often means (and is female nature as evo psych can tell us) to fear rocking the boat.
Again I suspect it comes down to the fact that women today are not supportive, and therefore their conformity has no good side to it. They simply follow the crowd and are consumers, never producing a thing of value or being genuinely independent.
3. A girl pretending to be what you like in order to get your interest. Is this ever permissible? It is certainly suspect, that a girl would lie about who she is but it could also be seen (perhaps in a more innocent time) as endearing or even a girl taking initiative in courtship just as wearing makeup and dressing up would be. Technically doing those last two is not "being herself" so when does it stop being misguided self improvement and start being a malicious deception?
4. And lastly, this being more openended, I am curious about the standards of women. I am not going to ask this in the context of modern women as the answer is obvious (they don't deserve the men they believe they deserve) so I am instead going to form a hypothetical. Let's say a pretty, feminine, and caring girl expects a fair bit from her future spouse, is she being entitled? She seems to have fulfilled her end of the bargain.
If she still is, what if all of the above is true but she puts herself out there to find a man? Is she still entitled?
I realize this last question might seem silly and oddly specific but it is something I would like answered. Although I naturally don't expect an answer simply because I asked. As such I thank anyone who replies.
