True, but a "dividend" portfolio aimed at capital preservation with corporates and dividend stocks isn't necessarily a bad way to go. Just don't put all of it in a single nursing home company.
Personal finance thread for men serious about settling in Europe
Quote: (01-28-2017 04:50 PM)Easy_C Wrote:
True, but a "dividend" portfolio aimed at capital preservation with corporates and dividend stocks isn't necessarily a bad way to go. Just don't put all of it in a single nursing home company.
With high net worth, that would be kinda correct.
However at $150k an average portfolio @ 5% would make $7.5k/year before tax... pretty useless compared to if you kept that money working for you. Even $1m invested @ 5% gets you 50k/year before tax, so lets say a conservative $37.5k to live off; not terrible but not exactly balling.
I strongly believe that, especially at low net worth, it's better to keep reinvesting into business - far greater returns. You haven't quite earned the right to do f**k all with your day yet (assuming that is the context of the original nursing home post)! Any stagnation in business growth will hurt you when you try to come back, as industry knowledge/skills will become slowly but surely out of date and momentum halts.
At any rate, business growth when done right is exponential, career growth in comparison (unless on Wall St) is dismal at best. In order to achieve true financial independence - which I define as living however you please while never having to work again - starting and owning a business is not optional (again, unless on Wall St or working for equity in tech startups). Your net worth doesn't grow fast enough without some serious income, only really possible via these avenues.
Quote: (01-27-2017 06:27 PM)HustleNomad Wrote:
Location independent business is the way to go. Whatever form that takes, you have to get really really really good at it. It has to be your all consuming focus, and in order for that to be possible you need to know exactly why you want it, why you deserve it, what you're going to do with it, and how you're going to help others with it. With $4-5k/mo you can live a good life anywhere in Europe. Put all your focus into achieving this location independent income, and all other questions and concerns will basically resolve themselves. Then work to 10x it because what you've achieved is nothing compared to what is possible. Even $50k/month is nothing compared to what's possible online.
Re living, I shift every 3 months for visa reasons which suits my needs perfectly - change keeps life interesting, I'm there long enough to get well and truly familiar and build a network, and I find out where I truly like and want to revisit. Hopping between 2+ places each year, 3mo chunks, suits me fine... I get restless easily.
Without getting into too much detail, what line of business are you in?
Quote: (01-28-2017 05:53 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:
Quote: (01-27-2017 06:27 PM)HustleNomad Wrote:
Location independent business is the way to go. Whatever form that takes, you have to get really really really good at it. It has to be your all consuming focus, and in order for that to be possible you need to know exactly why you want it, why you deserve it, what you're going to do with it, and how you're going to help others with it. With $4-5k/mo you can live a good life anywhere in Europe. Put all your focus into achieving this location independent income, and all other questions and concerns will basically resolve themselves. Then work to 10x it because what you've achieved is nothing compared to what is possible. Even $50k/month is nothing compared to what's possible online.
Re living, I shift every 3 months for visa reasons which suits my needs perfectly - change keeps life interesting, I'm there long enough to get well and truly familiar and build a network, and I find out where I truly like and want to revisit. Hopping between 2+ places each year, 3mo chunks, suits me fine... I get restless easily.
Without getting into too much detail, what line of business are you in?
Marketing/sales
Quote: (01-28-2017 05:16 PM)HustleNomad Wrote:
Quote: (01-28-2017 04:50 PM)Easy_C Wrote:
True, but a "dividend" portfolio aimed at capital preservation with corporates and dividend stocks isn't necessarily a bad way to go. Just don't put all of it in a single nursing home company.
With high net worth, that would be kinda correct.
However at $150k an average portfolio @ 5% would make $7.5k/year before tax... pretty useless compared to if you kept that money working for you. Even $1m invested @ 5% gets you 50k/year before tax, so lets say a conservative $37.5k to live off; not terrible but not exactly balling.
I strongly believe that, especially at low net worth, it's better to keep reinvesting into business - far greater returns. You haven't quite earned the right to do f**k all with your day yet (assuming that is the context of the original nursing home post)! Any stagnation in business growth will hurt you when you try to come back, as industry knowledge/skills will become slowly but surely out of date and momentum halts.
At any rate, business growth when done right is exponential, career growth in comparison (unless on Wall St) is dismal at best. In order to achieve true financial independence - which I define as living however you please while never having to work again - starting and owning a business is not optional (again, unless on Wall St or working for equity in tech startups). Your net worth doesn't grow fast enough without some serious income, only really possible via these avenues.
which is why you meet so many "passive dividend income" kind of guys in third world countries, they are happy with a few 100k because they can live like a king for less than 20k returns per year.
I used to admire them, but I don't think it's such a great idea long term...
I'm moving with my current job to London. With an income of about 180,000 GBP (230,000 USD), I am thinking to take a studio in London as well as a studio in Romania, Croatia, Ukraine or some other low cost place (I plan to do some exploring once I arrive) and shuttle between the two cities. I'm taking the approach of splitting my time as I've heard mixed reviews on London. Any recommended cities (within or outside the countries I've named) worthwhile for long-term stays are welcome. In addition, recommended central London neighborhoods which are interesting from a price or lifestyle perspective are also appreciated.
I move to Europe (Denmark) in 2010. I have lived here ever since, with the exception of 2015 when I moved to Belgium for a temporary gig.
I am a management consultant. Getting a job in Europe is much easier than I expected (not a top tier). Given that English is the language of business in any multinational, North Americans/Aus/Kiwis have a HUGE advantage.
I arrived with USD 10,000, which was juuuuust enough to get a room for a few months and live frugally while looking for a job on a tourist visa. Once I got the job, I waited a month and rented an apartment. I was squeezed this first year, but after that it was fine. I also applied for a visa based on the job offer, which only took two weeks to process.
Danish salaries are quite high for junior positions. Now that I have 10 years of experience in consulting, however, it will make a lot more sense for me to return to North America. There is a soft ceiling here that is set far below what is possible in the U.S. Actually building real wealth (like the OP) is challenging in Europe.
So, my advice for anyone wanting to set up shop in (Northern) Europe - do it. Employment is possible. Of course, living a lifestyle based on financial independence would be much nicer.
I am a management consultant. Getting a job in Europe is much easier than I expected (not a top tier). Given that English is the language of business in any multinational, North Americans/Aus/Kiwis have a HUGE advantage.
I arrived with USD 10,000, which was juuuuust enough to get a room for a few months and live frugally while looking for a job on a tourist visa. Once I got the job, I waited a month and rented an apartment. I was squeezed this first year, but after that it was fine. I also applied for a visa based on the job offer, which only took two weeks to process.
Danish salaries are quite high for junior positions. Now that I have 10 years of experience in consulting, however, it will make a lot more sense for me to return to North America. There is a soft ceiling here that is set far below what is possible in the U.S. Actually building real wealth (like the OP) is challenging in Europe.
So, my advice for anyone wanting to set up shop in (Northern) Europe - do it. Employment is possible. Of course, living a lifestyle based on financial independence would be much nicer.
Europe is no place to start building a life imo with the rampant growth of marxism and islam and billions of Africans about to boat across and set up. Your salary will give you some room to find a European wife and move to a safe place though. Where will you work? Clapham is the best place to find the best girls in London and has a vibrant middle class scene so I would suggest living there if working anywhere central. In terms of trips to places with better girls- Budapest is great from personal experience. You could potential invest in an apartment there if you find someone that could manage it for you and create some yield.
230k a year ?
Why need to go to Europe at all. Seem like you are doing very well in the States.
Why not save for 3 years . Then buy a couple of rental properties and live anywhere you want . Why go to Europe at all.if you want career advancement and more money I would stay in the States for a bit. The girls in Denmark aren't necessarily much better than the girls in the States and if you are thinking about traveling to Kiev every weekend? That shit gets tiring and I assume you gotta be in London Monday to Friday.
What kind of work do you do?
Why need to go to Europe at all. Seem like you are doing very well in the States.
Why not save for 3 years . Then buy a couple of rental properties and live anywhere you want . Why go to Europe at all.if you want career advancement and more money I would stay in the States for a bit. The girls in Denmark aren't necessarily much better than the girls in the States and if you are thinking about traveling to Kiev every weekend? That shit gets tiring and I assume you gotta be in London Monday to Friday.
What kind of work do you do?
Establishment has a point about the European salary ceiling which really confirms my suspicions of Europe as a place where where it is difficult for most people to break out above the 75K-150K EUR band. It is hard to accumulate significant wealth (millions) quickly at those levels.
I am taking a US salary out there and want to straddle myself between UK and somewhere cheap with beautiful women. Staying for a month at a time. That second place should be a place where I feel like my money really stretches and goes far. Maybe second tier Romania
I am taking a US salary out there and want to straddle myself between UK and somewhere cheap with beautiful women. Staying for a month at a time. That second place should be a place where I feel like my money really stretches and goes far. Maybe second tier Romania
One additional issue related to building wealth in Europe - the financial system is not as well developed, nor are there the same opportunities and incentives to save. There are no tax sheltered accounts, fewer discount brokerages, unfavourable tax schemes... the system here is not meant for people to accumulate wealth within their own lifetimes. Wealthy people are from wealthy families. Companies that are doing well now have been around for generations. Look at the top 20 companies from the U.S. in the 1980s vs now. Completely different list. And then look at the top European companies over the same timeframe... there will be a lot of the same brands.
I'm thinking about making the move and purchasing a property somewhere in Italy...
My thing is, I work as a defense contractor, so I stay in shitholes for 4-6 months at a time and get 3-4 months off in between. I can live anywhere I want and maintain the job that I have, but I'm tired of booking Airbnb's and paying someone else's rent while I'm off.. it's almost a necessary evil though.
I've saved up quite a bit like OP because while I'm overseas, there's nothing for me to spend money on.. except simple things like car insurance for a car that I hardly drive, mail forwarding, a cell phone I hardly use, and my storage unit.
I'm thinking of buying a condo in Vegas for real estate investment, and continuing to build up my resume for when I make the move. I'd like to get my degree and a few licenses under my belt... I'm in the aviation career field.
Realistically, I probably won't make the move for another 2-3 years, which means I have some time.
Best of luck to anyone else trying to expatriate!
My thing is, I work as a defense contractor, so I stay in shitholes for 4-6 months at a time and get 3-4 months off in between. I can live anywhere I want and maintain the job that I have, but I'm tired of booking Airbnb's and paying someone else's rent while I'm off.. it's almost a necessary evil though.
I've saved up quite a bit like OP because while I'm overseas, there's nothing for me to spend money on.. except simple things like car insurance for a car that I hardly drive, mail forwarding, a cell phone I hardly use, and my storage unit.
I'm thinking of buying a condo in Vegas for real estate investment, and continuing to build up my resume for when I make the move. I'd like to get my degree and a few licenses under my belt... I'm in the aviation career field.
Realistically, I probably won't make the move for another 2-3 years, which means I have some time.
Best of luck to anyone else trying to expatriate!
Quote: (06-29-2017 05:42 PM)Establishment Wrote:
One additional issue related to building wealth in Europe - the financial system is not as well developed, nor are there the same opportunities and incentives to save. There are no tax sheltered accounts, fewer discount brokerages, unfavourable tax schemes... the system here is not meant for people to accumulate wealth within their own lifetimes. Wealthy people are from wealthy families. Companies that are doing well now have been around for generations. Look at the top 20 companies from the U.S. in the 1980s vs now. Completely different list. And then look at the top European companies over the same timeframe... there will be a lot of the same brands.
This is pretty much what I'm noticing as well. I have some savings right now, nothing amazing but something on which I could use a decent return. Problem is there's nothing to invest in which will get even close to 3% net. It seems to that in Europe you're better off investing yourself. I'm looking at things like bitcoin and they seem like a tempting offer. High risk but the return is way better than any traditional investment.
Anyway, nobody should move to Europe to get rich, that's the wrong mindset. You move there because you want more variety and a more balanced lifestyle. You'll probably work less and have more free time. You'll also want to travel around and see which country is best for you.
Quote: (07-02-2017 05:30 AM)Pointer Wrote:
Quote: (06-29-2017 05:42 PM)Establishment Wrote:
One additional issue related to building wealth in Europe - the financial system is not as well developed, nor are there the same opportunities and incentives to save. There are no tax sheltered accounts, fewer discount brokerages, unfavourable tax schemes... the system here is not meant for people to accumulate wealth within their own lifetimes. Wealthy people are from wealthy families. Companies that are doing well now have been around for generations. Look at the top 20 companies from the U.S. in the 1980s vs now. Completely different list. And then look at the top European companies over the same timeframe... there will be a lot of the same brands.
This is pretty much what I'm noticing as well. I have some savings right now, nothing amazing but something on which I could use a decent return. Problem is there's nothing to invest in which will get even close to 3% net. It seems to that in Europe you're better off investing yourself. I'm looking at things like bitcoin and they seem like a tempting offer. High risk but the return is way better than any traditional investment.
Anyway, nobody should move to Europe to get rich, that's the wrong mindset. You move there because you want more variety and a more balanced lifestyle. You'll probably work less and have more free time. You'll also want to travel around and see which country is best for you.
Its too late to invest in bitcoins, etherum....
you can try the the smaller ones like monero....
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