[Old Fritz]

I started a thread a couple weeks ago asking when could feminism implode but I began to think about it a lot more and concluded that feminism may not get that much worse.

The truth is that women behave the same way biologically speaking in every country. That country and its culture, laws, etc simply rewards or punishes certain behaviors. For example, women here in the USA can walk around in skimpy outfits whereas in other countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, or IS (Islamic State) she could be forced to wear the jihab.

It's agreed that feminism is the worse in Anglosphere countries. But I ask you all how much worse can it really get? Many men are waking up and responding to this their own way. Some are "dropping out" of it all. Some men choose to just pump and dump. But there are more and more men realizing the way things are. More men lashing out and it doesn't matter what women say. It is happening.

Women are even fighting among themselves now. Feminist can't agree on common ground. Some women are directly attacking and insulting feminist. Other women are distancing themselves entirely from the feminist label.

What about other countries? I personally don't see any other country getting swarmed with feminism and ending up as bad as it currently is here in the Anglosphere. Definitely not the Arab or Slavic countries. China may have some of the most hypergamous women on the planet but they don't get too far out of line there. Heck even in Japan it's not as bad. Sure, much fuss is made about the herbivore men but in Japan the system to collect child support is pretty weak. It's rare when a woman takes a guy to the cleaners if you know what I mean. Also, some Japanese men still get physical and women are still expected to fulfill their roles.

Here in the west women are rewarded for all kinds of toxic behavior that would not reward them abroad due to laws or other cultural elements. Some of these men abroad are probably laughing at Western men.

Hope I didn't ramble too much but that's the gist of it.

[Sonsowey]

How much worse could it get?

I think much worse.

Increasing obesity, increasing bad behavior, increasing inflated egos from unattractive girls, decreasing supply of genuinely attractive girls...

Why couldn't it get worse? It easily could.

[Parlay44]

I find it ironic that in Islamic countries the morality police are there to control female behavior in public
and in the west the morality police are there to control male behavior in public.

I guess it's all about who has the power to enforce their will over the other sex.

[MdWanderer]

(08-23-2014 07:57 PM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

Here in the west women are rewarded for all kinds of toxic behavior that would not reward them abroad due to laws or other cultural elements. Some of these men abroad are probably laughing at Western men.

I'm glad someone touched on this. I don't blame the women, I blame society. Men act like they are 'brothers' for show but will stab another man in the back when it comes between him and another woman. I see this crap in the military all the time. Women talking back to officers and higher ups all the time, and make excuses for it like a little bitch, but will take to task another man who dares stand up for himself.

[Seth_Rose]

I think feminism will still get worst in Western countries. In addition to that, it has already seeped into places like Eastern Europe and Latin America. Feminism will increase there, albeit at a much slower pace then in the West.

Like you pointed out, a lot of guys miss the point that Western countries aren't the only countries in the world. Almost half the world's population is found in Africa, China and India where feminism isn't remotely relevant.There are over 1 billion muslims in the world, and while not all of them are strict conservatives, most of them are. For god sake women can't even drive in Saudi Arabia, and most of the middle east treats women like they're living in the 7th century.

At the end of the day though you have to ask yourself why you care. If feminism greatly concerns you then find a way to leave the West as soon as possible. One man, even a thousand men, have no chance at stopping feminism. It's either you accept it or you leave, no point in fussing about it.

[ryanf]

Feminism can only exist in a country that has an excess of wealth and a rising population. It's actually a self-correcting problem. The birth rate in the US has fallen below replacement levels, probably because none of the fat people want to fuck each other. Eventually, these people will be bred out of the gene pool. Or, the country collapses, because progressive policies bankrupt the government and the country can no longer function. Then, when everyone has to carry a wheelbarrow full of money just to buy milk, women won't have the luxury of dying their hair blue, getting fat and being obnoxious. It will be about survival at that point, not decadence.

[Old Fritz]

(08-23-2014 08:42 PM)MdWanderer Wrote:  

(08-23-2014 07:57 PM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

Here in the west women are rewarded for all kinds of toxic behavior that would not reward them abroad due to laws or other cultural elements. Some of these men abroad are probably laughing at Western men.

I'm glad someone touched on this. I don't blame the women, I blame society. Men act like they are 'brothers' for show but will stab another man in the back when it comes between him and another woman. I see this crap in the military all the time. Women talking back to officers and higher ups all the time, and make excuses for it like a little bitch, but will take to task another man who dares stand up for himself.

This bullshit is one of the reasons I have no desire to join the militar.

[Beyond Borders]

I think the decline of feminism has already begun.

It will get worse, but as it does, this intensity will be confined to smaller pockets of the female population. Other women are starting to see the extremists as...well, extremists and recognize their radical psychobabble for what it is.

Men have begun to wake up, and society at large is beginning to recognize some of the ways that men have been disenfranchised and emasculated, as well as the negative effects of those things. Even some of the most liberal, you-go-girl women I know are beginning to see the light on some of these issues.

This is just what I see, and I don't even live in Western world anymore, so take that opinion as you will.

I'll also note that I see a potential for the more extreme feminist groups to commit violent acts in the name of their beliefs, and as they get phased out and become frustrated, that may become more of a possibility. Then again, having lopsided feminist doctrines embedded in our society probably causes a lot more damage than the random act of terror, so it would still probably represent an improvement.

If I'm right about any of this, it will take some time for positive benefits for men to be seen.

[ddjembe mutombo]

Feminism is going to keep contributing to the growing divorce rate. Women are becoming entitled quitters. How many of you know a female that has worked at the same company for more than five years? Nurses and school teachers are probably the few that stick around at a reasonable rate.

Many people (women and boys) are starting to believe the feminist propaganda that goes against hard work and perseverance. Instead of trying to improve in areas of failure, people are now just throwing in the towel.

We hear people that are fat say, "I'm big boned" or "I've always been big; it is my genetics".
We hear people who can't run a mile say, "I have bad knees" or "I have asthma".
People switched to liberal arts because, "I am not good at math".
We hear people who can't write or paint say, "I'm not a creative person" or "I wish I were creative enough to do that".

When we accept ourselves as who we are we do not grow. When a ten year old chubby boy accepts his poor performance at sports he will continue his video game and snack addiction.

[MdWanderer]

(08-24-2014 11:16 AM)ddjembe mutombo Wrote:  

When we accept ourselves as who we are we do not grow. When a ten year old chubby boy accepts his poor performance at sports he will continue his video game and snack addiction.

I was that 10 year old chubby boy. I rode the pine on my 5th grade basketball team. Took that girth and put it to good use: football (then later shot put) Would go on to play for six years finishing up with the varsity high school team. Seeing deficiencies and turning them into strengths is the important thing. After working so hard to find a suitable wife and girlfriend in the U.S and coming short, I've just decided to use American girls and single moms to increase my notch count, and save money for travels that would normally go towards a girlfriend. Thanks to American Feminism, I am able to see the world instead of putting that money towards a wife and kids. Some of my friends have foreign wives and they tell me how much of a relief it is compared to having an American wife

[Onto]

(08-24-2014 11:16 AM)ddjembe mutombo Wrote:  

Feminism is going to keep contributing to the growing divorce rate. Women are becoming entitled quitters. How many of you know a female that has worked at the same company for more than five years? Nurses and school teachers are probably the few that stick around at a reasonable rate.

Many people (women and boys) are starting to believe the feminist propaganda that goes against hard work and perseverance. Instead of trying to improve in areas of failure, people are now just throwing in the towel.

We hear people that are fat say, "I'm big boned" or "I've always been big; it is my genetics".
We hear people who can't run a mile say, "I have bad knees" or "I have asthma".
People switched to liberal arts because, "I am not good at math".
We hear people who can't write or paint say, "I'm not a creative person" or "I wish I were creative enough to do that".

When we accept ourselves as who we are we do not grow. When a ten year old chubby boy accepts his poor performance at sports he will continue his video game and snack addiction.

I agree these things you listed are undesirable, but I wouldn't describe them as feminist. I would instead classify them as being feminine.

I'll do my best to explain, but I'm not a very good writer.

Feminism - The demand women have the rights to be like men in the world. The expectation that women actually be masculine in the world. To be self-possessed, both masculine and feminine.

Feminine - A metaphysical vision of how the world should be. To go into this would be a very long post, but a good example to show this would be the difference between the love of the Mother vs the Father.

A Mother gives her love unconditionally, the child needs only to exist to receive her love. Whereas the Father gives his love based on merit. The child must be of good character, morals, hard-working and subsricbe to and carry his principals and ideals out into the world. This is shown plainly in the news when the parents of some heinous criminal are interviewed. The Mother will never reject their child, but instead offer excuses, while the Father will outright disown them.

Very different views obviously, but which is the real? As men, we certainly will side with the masculine, but the truth is they both are, and are both needed. Like true justice is achieved when the letter of the law ( the masculine) is tempered with mercy (the feminine) for individual circumstances.

If there is any division among modern day women it's whether they should have to carry the burden of action in the world (be masculine). A burden we men naturally have no problem with, but for women it goes against femininity which says no one should be self-interested.

That said, all women (feminist or not) can certainly find common ground in they want as much legal and social power as possible. I see feminism as a terribly flawed answer by women to the question, "How can I be fulfilled?", whereas the feminine has existed since the dawn of time and is always trying to have it's view be the one the world subscribes too, just like the masculine does as well.

I don't fault women for pushing the feminine viewpoint, but it doesn't mean I have to subscribe to it.

[Brodiaga]

It could, and probably will, get much worse.

Right now, at least in the US, a man who has his shit together is still sought after by women who want to get married, have children and give them a good education. Finding a good husband is still a much better option for a woman than being supported by government welfare. As soon as this balance changes in favor of the government, the role of a man will be reduced to just a dick, a sperm donor.

This is already happening in some Western European countries. This is what feminists are trying to achieve: they want to live on our dime through mandatory wealth transfers and at the same time do whatever they want - the ultimate "Alpha fucks, beta bucks" scenario. As soon as this happens, the country will go down the drain. Just look at the UK as an example.

[ddjembe mutombo]

(08-24-2014 12:05 PM)Onto Wrote:  

I agree these things you listed are undesirable, but I wouldn't describe them as feminist. I would instead classify them as being feminine.

True. Good catch.

[catoblepa]

depends if for feminism you mean women in the workforce or an overtly misandric culture. the second scenario is not gonna progress much further as men are collectively achieving gender consciousness and increasingly opposing or avoiding those situations where they're routinely screwed over but the first scenario is unlikely to go back to traditional roles for women: this economic system requires both women and men to work and produce.

[Walderschmidt]

(08-24-2014 11:00 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

Men have begun to wake up, and society at large is beginning to recognize some of the ways that men have been disenfranchised and emasculated, as well as the negative effects of those things. Even some of the most liberal, you-go-girl women I know are beginning to see the light on some of these issues.

The wake up is slow, but inexorable.

Case in point: Vox Day wrote on article on How to talk to College Girls

Quote:

College Deltas and Gammas are heeding the signals and increasingly refraining from approaching women on campus:
Thanks to an increased focus on sexual assaults on college campuses – mostly due to an overblown statistic claiming 20 percent of college women have been sexually assaulted – young college men are starting to rethink how they talk to women.

At first glance that might seem like a good thing – men learning to be more respectful of women and not be so rapey – but that’s not what this is. This is about men actually avoiding contact with women because they’re afraid a simple kiss or date could lead to a sexual assault accusation....

Joshua Handler of New York University’s comments brought up another interesting consequence of so much media attention: Having to talk to women in a very specific manner. Handler told the Bloomberg reporters that he is now very clear about what he wants when he talks to women. Because now, apparently, women can’t interpret conversations and need to be spoken to like children (my words, not his).
Feminism: the gift that just keeps on giving. But at least the current environment is teaching lower-status men to speak to young women in the way higher-status men do. Talking to women as if they are slow-witted children is, without question, a display of high value. Women are seldom attracted to intelligence when nerds treat them as if they are smart, and yet many of them will drop their drawers on command when an intelligent jerk treats them as if they are mentally retarded.

Don't take my word for it. Experiment. If you're a college guy, talk to the next pretty girl you meet as if she's Stephen Hawking and you're in awe of her every word. Then talk to the next one as if she's a retarded kid who is getting on your nerves. Report in and tell us which girl gave you her number... and whether it was solicited or not.

Once game becomes that much of a necessity - more will know it.

Wald

[Old Fritz]

Interesting comments.

I don't believe we will ever fully go back to traditional homes.. and I don't want to. But I am mainly referring to when feminist start to get phased out. Kinda like how horses were phased out when automobiles became more widespread.

[Akula]

(08-24-2014 10:15 PM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

Interesting comments.

I don't believe we will ever fully go back to traditional homes.. and I don't want to. But I am mainly referring to when feminist start to get phased out. Kinda like how horses were phased out when automobiles became more widespread.

why not?

[Walderschmidt]

(08-25-2014 02:45 AM)Akula Wrote:  

(08-24-2014 10:15 PM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

Interesting comments.

I don't believe we will ever fully go back to traditional homes.. and I don't want to. But I am mainly referring to when feminist start to get phased out. Kinda like how horses were phased out when automobiles became more widespread.

why not?

I second this question.

Wald

[Sonsowey]

Why won't we go back to traditional homes?

I think the proper question is why would we? What forces out there are going to cause this transition?

We've been moving away from them and continue to do so. Why do you think this current trajectory will reverse?

[Old Fritz]

(08-25-2014 02:45 AM)Akula Wrote:  

(08-24-2014 10:15 PM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

Interesting comments.

I don't believe we will ever fully go back to traditional homes.. and I don't want to. But I am mainly referring to when feminist start to get phased out. Kinda like how horses were phased out when automobiles became more widespread.

why not?

What would be the point? All women drain resources and are prone to the same things (crowd thinking, hypergamy,etc). Why waste so much time on a woman that will never appreciate it?

[Walderschmidt]

(08-25-2014 05:05 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Why won't we go back to traditional homes?

I think the proper question is why would we? What forces out there are going to cause this transition?

We've been moving away from them and continue to do so. Why do you think this current trajectory will reverse?

I think the pendulum will swing back some day or another.

I think conservative tradition was born out of necessity and kept up because it works. Once the consequences of hedonism and excessive promiscuity become more pronounced, people will slowly turn back to old ways.

Heck - in some ways, I see a lot of guys in the manosphere turning more conservative.

Wald