[thecrazyfool]

Hey guys,

Hoping to take advantage of the brilliant minds here. I need some advice on how to get a girl-

WAIT. Before you write "if you're asking how to get her, you've already lost her," hear me out. I know that already, but my situation is, shall we say, unusual. It is because of my unusual situation that I seek the advice of the experts here. Perhaps there is no hope for me, but we'll see. (FYI, this is going to be a VERY long post.)

I am a college freshman at an Ivy League school, a 6' 4" greater beta who is considered by most to be attractive, humorous, and generally "interesting" and charismatic. Sounds good, right? The elephant in the room is that I have never had a relationship with any girl, EVER, because of 18 years of ADHD, untreated dysthymia, anxiety disorder, and OCD, all of which were compounded by severe verbal abuse and emotional neglect by my parents. Yeah, real sad, I know. I've been seeing a therapist and taking medication since the beginning of the school year. Not long after this, I was introduced to Game and have been following it since.

Why did I tell you guys about this? Not so you'd feel sorry - I don't need your sympathy, just your help. Because of my "issues," I was never able to take advantage of the bevy of female opportunities that in some cases literally sat down in my lap, and possess little knowledge about intuitive social interactions other than what I've learned from game and watching others interact. This is not to say I am an asocial, virginal aspie - thanks to my parents, I am an extremely talented liar and mimic, and have reinvented myself to the degree where no one at college knows I used to be a depressed, friendless loser. The key problem is, although I appear to all to be very experienced and socially savvy, I actually lack any real experience taking action with women - the only time I've ever gotten laid was at a party where the girl was very drunk and literally dragged me into the bedroom with her. So when you reply, don't assume that I know something that comes naturally to neurotypicals. That is why I wrote about this. Now, to the point.

There's this girl that I like - she's black, I'm white, but that's not a problem. She is very curvy (NOT FAT,) which I know some of you guys don't like, but I love my T & A. By your standards, she's probably a 6.5 whereas I am a 7. She is unusually pleasant, warm, and friendly - good LTR material, with a pretty face and nice hair. She is a very talented dancer, being a member of one of the best hip-hop dance groups on campus. Ironically, she is the roommate of my roommate's girlfriend, who thinks I am the funniest guy alive. (Translation: Her friends think I'm great and won't try to cockblock, and may even help out.) For the purposes of this post, I will call this black girl Brown Sugar, since you guys love to nickname girls.

I met Brown Sugar at a SuperBowl party, during which I noticed her and her friend eyeing me. Being extremely ill, I did not strike up a conversation as I should have. I did not know who she was at the time, but asked around and found out from my roommate's girlfriend, to whom I conveyed that I was interested in getting to know her better (exact phrasing.) She became very excited and encouraged me in said venture, and told me that they would be attending a dance party the following night and that I should come. From this, I know that Brown Sugar knows that I have some degree of interest in her, as women always talk to one another about these things.

I went to the dance party, which I'm not sure was the best idea, seeing as I'm a poor dancer and there were many, much more talented dancers than I there. Brown Sugar greeted me warmly, giving my abs a squeeze, and then we did some grindlng for a little bit. However, I can't even do that properly, and after a few minutes she wandered off, and I was forced to watch as one by one all the other people I came with partnered off and disappeared into the night. Feeling depressed, I eventually left. The next day, I attempted to at least save face by contacting the friend via Facebook chat and apologizing for my "strange behavior while being extremely drunk." I was stone-cold sober, as I can't drink because of my medication, but she didn't know that and bought the ruse hook, line, and sinker, assuring me that both she and Brown Sugar thought I had been "a lot of fun." (This apologizing is very out-of-character for me from her perspective, as she knows me as a hilarious, unpredictable, unrepentant "asshole," (said with a smile and a laugh) so it may even have counted as vulnerability game.) The next day, Brown Sugar sent me a friend request on Facebook, which I reluctantly accepted as although my profile doesn't flatter me much, I had no other way of contacting her.

I Facebook chatted with Brown Sugar twice, showing off my wit and intelligence, parrying shit tests left and right, but didn't seem to get much of anywhere. She was friendly but eventually ended the conversation both times, leaving me somewhat discouraged, as you're supposed to get the woman to "chase" you. Then, I unexpectedly ran into Brown Sugar, my roommate's girlfriend, and the friend from the Super Bowl party at the dining hall. I took advantage of the opportunity to display my wit and charm in person, and soon had the rapt attention of all three girls, while being amused yet aloof. During this, the friend from the Super Bowl party displayed several minor IOIs (hair twirling, shifting legs) while Brown Sugar, who I was seated next to, touched my shoulder several times and allowed her legs to press against mine beneath the table for the duration of the meal, which if I'm not mistaken is a major IOI. They had to leave early to attend dance group practice, and they all apologized for leaving, Brown Sugar saying "goodbye" in that way a woman does when you have some significance to her. That was 5 days ago - I'm on Spring Break now.

At this point, you're probably all going "You stupid piece of shit. Do X and Y and she's yours." But I don't have this intuition, guys, and I honestly don't know where to go from here. So my question to you all is: how do I get from where I am now to pounding that juicy ass while she screams my name? I would also like to have an actual relationship with her, if possible. Remember though, here are the caveats: I can't drink, and don't do well in bars or clubs where dancing is involved - my strength is definitely day game. I have no way of contacting her save Facebook, and we both have very busy schedules, being at an Ivy league school. So tell me, gentlemen, pimps, and players: now what? If you can solve my dilemma, you are a Casanova beyond all comparison.

[Kickb]

Sounds like you have a few insecurities to workout. I'm no expert, but, don't be so hard on yourself and don't think too much. Perhaps you could try and get the negative thoughts out of your head.

That's about all the help I can give you, i jave problrms myself! Good luck

[peterthephoenix]

Haha you probably didn't need to write so much.

I was a pretty weird kid back in highschool. You're allowed to reinvent yourself without being a compulsive liar, it's just wanting more out of your life and putting in the work to improve it.

You don't have to be witty and intelligent all the time, it usually comes off as trying to hard. Just be normal, relaxed and a little bit playful. Gaming girls isn't an equation (ie. X + Y = Z) humans are a bit dynamic.

With this girl, spend a bit more time chatting to her on facebook, grab a number, try to set up a date (dating usually leads to relationships), escalate (be sure to sleep with her within a couple dates). natural progression.

If she shoots you down, no big deal, shit happens. Move on to new girls.

[gringoed]

"At this point, you're probably all going "You stupid piece of shit. Do X and Y and she's yours." "

Dude you're 18, chill out and don't be afraid to make mistakes and put yourself out there. Based on what you've written you sound like a classic over-thinker.

Try this exercise:

1. Get into a relaxed environment, close your eyes and focus your mind.
2. Imagine yourself as a cool, suave, fun, confident man. Use characters that you're familiar with as an example of how it should look.
3. Imagine this girl falling head over heels for you as you seduce her with your charm and confidence.
4. Open your eyes, smile, and try to act like the character that you imagined. Enjoy yourself while doing it.
5. Repeat as desired.


You seem like the type of guy that would prefer memorizing lines to say and things to do, as it's easy way to go for people with OCD but that's the wrong pattern to get it since that kind of stuff won't improve your inner game.

It sounds like you have deeper issues about your self-esteem or identity, which is why I'd work on your inner game.

[afronoob]

(03-13-2011 11:35 PM)gringoed Wrote:  

"At this point, you're probably all going "You stupid piece of shit. Do X and Y and she's yours." "

Dude you're 18, chill out and don't be afraid to make mistakes and put yourself out there. Based on what you've written you sound like a classic over-thinker.

Try this exercise:

1. Get into a relaxed environment, close your eyes and focus your mind.
2. Imagine yourself as a cool, suave, fun, confident man. Use characters that you're familiar with as an example of how it should look.
3. Imagine this girl falling head over heels for you as you seduce her with your charm and confidence.
4. Open your eyes, smile, and try to act like the character that you imagined. Enjoy yourself while doing it.
5. Repeat as desired.


You seem like the type of guy that would prefer memorizing lines to say and things to do, as it's easy way to go for people with OCD but that's the wrong pattern to get it since that kind of stuff won't improve your inner game.

It sounds like you have deeper issues about your self-esteem or identity, which is why I'd work on your inner game.

Dude,trust me,its like everyone else has said:you're actually doing fine thus far -those panties are already half way down,and even you have enough women knowledge to seem that.
Don't overanalyse! That's the killer of all action in the real world,business,war and everything is ruined by overstrategising and waiting for perfection in an imperfect world.
I think it was Patton who said an aggressive plan is better than a perfect plan-words to live by.

[thecrazyfool]

Well, thanks for the encouragement, guys, but it's not really what I was hoping for. I'm not sure you guys understand the magnitude of my social incompetence. Of course I overanalyze things - I have OCD, that's what we do. Of course I have serious inner game issues - chronic depression and being constantly beat down by my parents, to whom even being top of the class, student gov. president, Eagle Scout, and going to an Ivy League college was "not good enough." Boo hoo. There's nothing I can do about this stuff except take medication and go to therapy. I'm not some David Alexander who sits back and bitches about his life without doing anything to improve it.

I'm sorry for having a bit of an attitude, but I guess I'm a little frustrated right now because you guy's advice is similar to that of my therapist: "Don't be so insecure. Just let things happen." But when I do that, things don't happen. All my life, I let things "just happen" and spent 18 years being miserable, lonely, and unloved. One doesn't get anywhere in life by "just letting things happen." I've been proactive in my academic life, and now want to be proactive in my personal life.

I really appreciate you guys encouraging me, but I do think some more specific advice would be more helpful. Growing up in a highly dysfunctional family with a grab bag of mental illnesses tends to "disconnect" one from natural social feelings. peterthephoenix is absolutely correct when he says "gaming girls isn't an equation, humans are a bit more dynamic." My problem is I have difficulty tapping into that natural dynamic, that genetic programming. If it weren't for the Prozac I wouldn't even be as far as I am now. When that one girl dragged me into her bedroom, I was actually resisting her (this was before I was on medication) because I was scared she'd have regrets once sober and accuse me of raping her. Isn't that ridiculous?

My problem isn't that I'm boring, ugly, lame, etc. but that I literally do not know what to do. An aggressive plan is better than a perfect plan - but I have no plan at all. Now that I am no longer depressed, I receive IOIs from girls all the time but can't act on it because I don't know how to proceed. I hear "the panties are already halfway off," but I have no idea how to get them down the rest of the way, and I don't want her to eventually lose interest like all the other girls who I was unable to do anything with. Would I know what to do once I got her into the bedroom? Yes. Do I know how to get her into the bedroom? No. When I read the game advice, I always hear "go to a bar, dance with her, and if she likes you she'll do the rest." But I can't dance or drink, so what do I do? "Natural progression" does not apply here. For example, I hear "take her out on a date." Immediately, I think: "Where? How? When? How do I ask her in a non-beta way? Won't asking her on a date be giving her too much power? Didn't Roissy say you should never ask an 18-22 yr old on a date?" My concern is not "will she refuse? What will I say? What should I wear?" or other typical beta nonsense. I know I'm funny, confident, suave, and attractive. I know she likes me too. But how do I make something out of this? How do I move things forward in a non-beta fashion? You say: "If she refuses, don't worry. There'll be others." But she is one of these "others," and I consistently fail EVERY TIME with girls because of my inability to move things forward. Much of game is designed to build attraction where there is none - I need "don't fuck up" game, I need Mystery-style "do x, y, and z" instructions. I already have attraction.

Well, that was a nice little rant. Now, how do I proceed? What should my plan be?

[thecrazyfool]

Come on, guys! I'm sure some of you have been in my shoes at some point. How do I "put myself out there" effectively? I'm tired of being so pathetic that I can't even take advantage of opportunities served up to me on a silver platter while other men far less genetically fortunate than I savor their hard-earned, high-quality poon. Help me man up and take the next step!

[Gmac]

(03-14-2011 03:31 PM)thecrazyfool Wrote:  

Come on, guys! I'm sure some of you have been in my shoes at some point. How do I "put myself out there" effectively? I'm tired of being so pathetic that I can't even take advantage of opportunities served up to me on a silver platter while other men far less genetically fortunate than I savor their hard-earned, high-quality poon. Help me man up and take the next step!

This thread has only been up since midnight. Chill out man, most of us have lives.

I have a few questions:

*Why 'can't' you drink?
*Have you tried or considered other methods?
*How many approaches do you "attempt" when you go out and how many nights a week do you go out? Lifetime approaches?
*Do you approach during the day (how's your day game)?
*What is your typical form of game (i.e. how do you usually approach and attempt to build attraction)?

So you're 18 and have issues with girls, big deal. Many of us didn't improve (or even discover) game until our 20s. Sounds like you just need experience, and that means getting shot down a lot over the next few months and years.

1. You're OCD, as am I, so use this to your advantage. Analyze (not over-analyze) the way your failed conversations went and learn why they ended.

2. Learn to dance. You say you can't, but again this takes a lot of practice.

3. Work on your inner-game like some others mentioned. The main problem is that you are thinking way too much about this and stressing out. Repeat to yourself, "I just don't give a fuck" enough times and it will start to sink in. Being naturally (or irrationally) self-confident is the key, but you won't be able to do that until you know and radiate your own perceived worth.

[peterthephoenix]

Chill the fuck out. You're looking for game on a silver platter and then will come back and complain when she turns you down.

If you're looking for X+Y+Z mystery method you're better off on theattractionforums.

[thecrazyfool]

I guess this is something I should really be addressing elsewhere. (And no, I don't have a life, as I'm sure you've guessed.) It's not really fair for me to expect "normal" people to understand or emphasize with the situation. You guys were just trying to help and I overreacted as usual.

My frustration is not mere "problems with girls." I know many of you are in your 20's and 30's and think "well, he just needs to get some experience and a life." Problem is, these are issues that are deep-rooted and cannot be solved by "not caring and working out." To quote Roissy: "The rich and charming entrepreneur who because of mental or emotional sickness lives in parched celibacy is not an alpha male." We're not talking about approach anxiety, not being attractive enough, or being afraid of rejection. This isn't the first time where, despite having interest in a girl, and she in me, and her friends supporting it - the quintessential golden opportunity - I fail to take action and lose my chance. These are times when I know she will not reject me, and yet do not put myself out there because I literally do not know what to do. It's like reading a novel and halfway through you find that the rest of the pages have nothing printed on them. This is something that will never get better until I address it. It is pathetic and shameful, especially when so many men struggle to even get attention from women in the first place. My problem is not lack of confidence (my medication takes care of that,) but lack of knowledge.

To answer your questions, Gmac:
1. It would be a very bad idea for me to drink alcohol given the effects of alcohol in combination with the various medications I take, which include speedballing, alcohol poisoning, and coma/death. None of which are very attractive.
2. "Other methods?" Like what? Not sure what you're talking about here.
3. Approaches? Going out? Surely you jest. I can't dance, can't drink, and have never approached a girl in my life. Remember, I'm crazy and foolish - hence my username. Depression, anxiety, and OCD have a way of making you feel worthless even when a girl is trying to get you to have sex with her, and the poor thing doesn't understand why you keep sitting around doing nothing. Also, in college, being an approach-guy will quickly get you labeled as a wanna-be player. It's too loud at a party for me to talk to a girl (my greatest strength - the advantage of ADHD is I never run out of jokes or interesting things to say,) especially when I'm surrounded by half-naked alpha athletes.
4. My typical form of game. Hmmm. I'd call it "Indirect Crazy Game." As my greatest strength is my personality (though being 6' 4" helps a lot,) I let my ADHD generate thoughts and observations, filter them, and the result is an unpredictable blend of humor, DHV anecdotes, and teasing that flows naturally from harnessing my insanity. As I score highly on all three dark triad traits, the combination creates lots of attraction for girls at the cost of having few male friends. I don't really "try" to build attraction, I just sow seeds and note where they grow. (And then fail to harvest the fruits of my labors.) In this way I have pissed off many a boyfriend and beta orbiter, which is fun until you get the reputation of "that guy who you need to keep your women away from because he's more fun and interesting than you are." Even though I've never actually tried anything.

Oh, look. Brown Sugar just sent me an invitation to a private party via Facebook. Does it get any easier than this? Hopefully I won't fuck up this time and will actually be able to do more than just return her shoulder touches. I don't think I can use the "I was drunk" excuse to explain my terrible dancing and lack of escalation a second time. Wish me luck - or not, since I'm a desperate, neurotic loser. Before I try to implement game, perhaps I should try to fix my mind first.

[Gmac]

(03-14-2011 06:54 PM)thecrazyfool Wrote:  

I guess this is something I should really be addressing elsewhere. (And no, I don't have a life, as I'm sure you've guessed.) It's not really fair for me to expect "normal" people to understand or emphasize with the situation. You guys were just trying to help and I overreacted as usual.

My frustration is not mere "problems with girls." I know many of you are in your 20's and 30's and think "well, he just needs to get some experience and a life." Problem is, these are issues that are deep-rooted and cannot be solved by "not caring and working out." To quote Roissy: "The rich and charming entrepreneur who because of mental or emotional sickness lives in parched celibacy is not an alpha male." We're not talking about approach anxiety, not being attractive enough, or being afraid of rejection. This isn't the first time where, despite having interest in a girl, and she in me, and her friends supporting it - the quintessential golden opportunity - I fail to take action and lose my chance. These are times when I know she will not reject me, and yet do not put myself out there because I literally do not know what to do. It's like reading a novel and halfway through you find that the rest of the pages have nothing printed on them. This is something that will never get better until I address it. It is pathetic and shameful, especially when so many men struggle to even get attention from women in the first place. My problem is not lack of confidence (my medication takes care of that,) but lack of knowledge.

To answer your questions, Gmac:
1. It would be a very bad idea for me to drink alcohol given the effects of alcohol in combination with the various medications I take, which include speedballing, alcohol poisoning, and coma/death. None of which are very attractive.

Fair enough. Theoretically speaking, what if you skip the medication for a day?

Quote:

2. "Other methods?" Like what? Not sure what you're talking about here.

I was going to say recreational drugs, but probably a bad idea considering the potential drug interactions.

Quote:

3. Approaches? Going out? Surely you jest. I can't dance, can't drink, and have never approached a girl in my life. Remember, I'm crazy and foolish - hence my username. Depression, anxiety, and OCD have a way of making you feel worthless even when a girl is trying to get you to have sex with her, and the poor thing doesn't understand why you keep sitting around doing nothing. Also, in college, being an approach-guy will quickly get you labeled as a wanna-be player. It's too loud at a party for me to talk to a girl (my greatest strength - the advantage of ADHD is I never run out of jokes or interesting things to say,) especially when I'm surrounded by half-naked alpha athletes.

You said you were, and I quote, "a college freshman at an Ivy League school, a 6' 4" greater beta who is considered by most to be attractive, humorous, and generally "interesting" and charismatic".

Ok, so you already have the physical qualities most men desire... that alone should give you confidence to approach, regardless of the outcome. It's a number game, remember?

If you have never approached a girl, how have you talked to one? Are you really saying that the only girls you've talked to have come up to you first? I find that hard to believe.

"Approach guy?" Listen, you do want to be known as a player (or at least perceived as one). You want to be approach-guy.

Too loud? All you are giving is excuses.

Take her outside? Try a bar instead of a party? Day game? Play to your strengths, then you can build on your weaknesses.

Become approach-guy, and see your success with women increase. It's that simple.

Quote:

4. My typical form of game. Hmmm. I'd call it "Indirect Crazy Game." As my greatest strength is my personality (though being 6' 4" helps a lot,) I let my ADHD generate thoughts and observations, filter them, and the result is an unpredictable blend of humor, DHV anecdotes, and teasing that flows naturally from harnessing my insanity. As I score highly on all three dark triad traits, the combination creates lots of attraction for girls at the cost of having few male friends. I don't really "try" to build attraction, I just sow seeds and note where they grow. (And then fail to harvest the fruits of my labors.) In this way I have pissed off many a boyfriend and beta orbiter, which is fun until you get the reputation of "that guy who you need to keep your women away from because he's more fun and interesting than you are." Even though I've never actually tried anything.

I see a sliver of confidence in there.

Quote:

Oh, look. Brown Sugar just sent me an invitation to a private party via Facebook. Does it get any easier than this? Hopefully I won't fuck up this time and will actually be able to do more than just return her shoulder touches. I don't think I can use the "I was drunk" excuse to explain my terrible dancing and lack of escalation a second time. Wish me luck - or not, since I'm a desperate, neurotic loser. Before I try to implement game, perhaps I should try to fix my mind first.

Forget what your brain is telling you and go for it. Try something new, be bold. Fail to take action and you will never escalate with a girl, it's really that simple. Don't think, just do it.

[gringochileno]

Quote:

Because of my "issues," I was never able to take advantage of the bevy of female opportunities that in some cases literally sat down in my lap

Quote:

I don't really "try" to build attraction, I just sow seeds and note where they grow. (And then fail to harvest the fruits of my labors.)

Quote:

I fail to take action and lose my chance.

This is really the root of your problem. You sound like an attractive, naturally charismatic, outgoing dude but your lack of self-esteem is preventing you from going after what you want because you don't think you'll get it. Go to this girl's party and tell yourself "I will fuck her and if I don't fuck her it will be because I did everything in my power to fuck her and she still wouldn't let me." If you can't bang who gives a shit, rinse and repeat with the next girl. You are never going to get laid if you never actually try to have sex with anyone so just be aggressive and let that inner caveman execute its genetic program.

[thecrazyfool]

To follow up with Gmac:

1. Not taking the medication would be an extremely bad idea. I need the Concerta to control my ADHD or I won't be able to get a single bit of work done. Although - I usually take an extra pill in the afternoon so I can work in the evening, and since I wouldn't be working... hmmm... The Prozac is non-negotiable. Not only do I need that for self-confidence, but the withdrawal symptoms from sudden discontinuation can be worse than the ensuing depression. As for the Ativan, I actually don't take it on a regular basis - but would need to be able to take it in case of an anxiety attack.

2. Yes, I am saying that the only girls I have talked to are ones that either spoke to me first or were introduced to me by a friend. Most people also find it hard to believe that I am mentally ill (the few who know) because I had to learn to conceal my real thoughts and emotions thanks to my parents. Admittedly, learning sociopathic abilities does have its advantages. I often feel like Dexter in that if people knew what I really was they'd be getting out the torches and pitchforks in short order.

3. You're right about being known as a player - but you have to be known as a successful player who gets with hot women. Due to my excellent storytelling abilities I have convinced everyone that I am very successful in the mating game due to an encyclopedic knowledge of sex and game/relationship dynamics. But eventually people are going to start putting two and two together when they realize I talk the talk but nobody's ever actually seen me walk the walk. You can fool some people some of the time but you can't fool all the people all of the time. In college, the girls talk to their friends - social circle game, not approach game, is the only workable option.

4. I neglected to mention that I am very thin, though not emaciated or unhealthy - weight and appetite loss is a long-term side effect of Concerta. My "look" could be described as somewhere between "cute nerdy guy" (as in, good-looking with superficial nerd characteristics such as glasses and high intelligence) and "pretty boy male model." Therefore my unpredictable and sometimes assholeish behavior comes off as contrast game. Perhaps being more cave-mannish would also help.

You know what? I'm going to go looking for that caveman. He's got to be in there somewhere, bored and sexually frustrated, and ready to bonk an exotic ebony female over the head with his club and drag her back to the cave for ravishment. I think I'll start by watching some rap music videos with the rappers treating women as sex objects, building a fire, and killing something and eating it. She wants me to succeed, dammit, so I'm going to read up on escalation and "get pussy or die tryin'!" It's time for action, and I'm taking it! I will reconnect to the sexual aggression
of my ancestors, the barbarian Germanic tribes who destroyed Rome and plunged Europe into darkness for a thousand years!

I think I've found the solution. I'll let you all know if it works!

[gringochileno]

Sounds good except for the reading part. It seems like you've already read lots and lots of pickup literature and reading more is just going to contribute to your tendency to over-analyze and not take action. Commit yourself to not reading anything more about game until you've actually tried to bang five different girls.

[Gmac]

(03-15-2011 11:13 AM)thecrazyfool Wrote:  

To follow up with Gmac:

The Prozac is non-negotiable. Not only do I need that for self-confidence, but the withdrawal symptoms from sudden discontinuation can be worse than the ensuing depression.

So you take prozac to boost the self-confidence that you seem to lack even after taking it. Seems pretty ineffective. Personally, I don't advocate or support taking psychological-altering drugs even after working in a pharmacy during college. How long have you been on them and do you (or your doctor(s)) really think it would be that detrimental to get off medication?

Quote:

2. Yes, I am saying that the only girls I have talked to are ones that either spoke to me first or were introduced to me by a friend.

You need stop thinking of yourself as mentally ill... that is one of your problems right there. Well then baby steps. Learn to smile at women you're attracted to for a few weeks, then move to saying hello to every attractive woman you see for a few weeks, then graduate to basic conversations. I promise you'll see improvement and the anxiety will gradual decrease.

Quote:

3. You're right about being known as a player - but you have to be known as a successful player who gets with hot women. Due to my excellent storytelling abilities I have convinced everyone that I am very successful in the mating game due to an encyclopedic knowledge of sex and game/relationship dynamics. But eventually people are going to start putting two and two together when they realize I talk the talk but nobody's ever actually seen me walk the walk. You can fool some people some of the time but you can't fool all the people all of the time. In college, the girls talk to their friends - social circle game, not approach game, is the only workable option.

I didn't just say being known as a player, I said being perceived as one. Social circle game is for chumps and lesser betas. In my opinion it's not even real game, and with it comes with more social consequences for beginners then approaching random women even in the smallest of colleges. You don't have to be a successful player to DHV from approaching lots of women, just talking to women and piquing their interest will do that.

You've proven you can tell stories and you are perceived as successful, so I don't see why you are stressing out. Forget what you think you know and stop being so fucking paranoid. People aren't going to "put two and two together." Nobody "and their friends" are out to get you. You need to understand you're just another nobody at the party or walking down the street... nobody is analyzing your moves but you.

Quote:

4. I neglected to mention that I am very thin, though not emaciated or unhealthy - weight and appetite loss is a long-term side effect of Concerta. My "look" could be described as somewhere between "cute nerdy guy" (as in, good-looking with superficial nerd characteristics such as glasses and high intelligence) and "pretty boy male model." Therefore my unpredictable and sometimes assholeish behavior comes off as contrast game. Perhaps being more cave-mannish would also help.

If you speak the way you type, I can see why you might have difficulty with women. Don't take this the wrong way but it's a little too proper and feminine. It might be the ADHD, but I agree being cave-mannish would help if you had the look to go along with it. My recommendation is to swap the glasses for contacts and improve your look. Sorry, but the "cute nerdy guy" thing is not going to get you quality women.

Learn to approach or die a virgin, the choice is yours.

[Moma]

(03-15-2011 01:33 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

Learn to approach or die a virgin, the choice is yours.

He was already fcuked once, so he is not a real virgin.

[Gmac]

(03-15-2011 01:39 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(03-15-2011 01:33 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

Learn to approach or die a virgin, the choice is yours.

He was already fcuked once, so he is not a real virgin.

Whatever. Zero, one... it's all the same to me. I just don't understand how the guy thinks he will get girls by hiding within social circles.

[thecrazyfool]

Ow! My pride! I see I irritate other males even through the impersonal communication method of the internet.

1. I appreciate your advice, gmac, but I cannot agree with you about the Prozac. I can't believe that you worked in a pharmacy and still do not know how useful psychological drugs are. Without going into details, the quality of life I experience with the drugs is much better than the nightmare before it. Sometimes I look back and think just how close I came to killing myself so many times. I'm guessing you or a family member has never had depression, or otherwise you'd understand. You can't really know what the sun's all about until the lights go out. The medication must stay, at least for a few years. Plus, think of the Prozac as insurance against premature ejaculation. I know you think life without pussy is not worth living, but believe me, there are much worse things in life than lack of sex.

2. As I said before, I don't lack confidence and any anxiety I experience is unrelated to women. My problem is not being able to escalate because I simply lack the knowledge of how to do so. I am hoping to do so by reconnecting with my "caveman" and also by having my ADHD work for me instead of against me. The joke is that the only thing ADHD people can ever actually focus on is sex, and I can verify this - the girl who coerced me into fucking her told me afterwards it was the best she'd ever had, and was shocked to find out I was a virgin. We'll see.

3. Social circle game - all the advice I've read says the same thing: you can't do random approach game effectively in college because a girl needs to feel that her friends approve of you too. And yes, baby steps - I lack knowledge, not confidence or appeal. I don't even need to approach - they come to me, and yet I don't do anything about it. You don't seem to understand that. It doesn't many how many women I approach if I can't even escalate. And don't forget, I'm only a greater beta. A man's got to know his limitations. I'm still trying to figure out how to ride a bike without training wheels and you're telling me to compete in the Tour De France. Maybe later, but not right now. Oh, and by the way, people ARE out to get me. People always resent the success of others. In high school, there was a group of guys who, jealous of my academic successes and sex appeal, tried to spread the rumor that I was gay because I never reciprocated the advances of any girls. And now, in college I am always hearing guys who are perfectly friendly to my face (generally boyfriends and orbiters) unsuccessfully trying to convince their female companions that I am "creepy," "irritating," and "not attractive." In short, haters gonna hate. They are watching and waiting, and I know for a fact that if I am successful with Brown Sugar they will say "He's a poser. She's not that attractive. She's not even white. Look how big her butt is. Blah Blah Blah." Fuck them, I will not give them any more ammo than they already have. And I like big butts, so there. They can keep their ugly Asian girlfriends with their little-boy bodies, I want a woman.

4. This may be difficult for you to comprehend, but women are actually attracted to intelligent, eloquent, humorous, well-spoken men, especially in an Ivy League environment. You tell me to work with my strengths - that's a strength. I can't explain to you why it works, but there are also women who have a "type" such as "cute nerdy guy" or "pretty boy." No, they are not the threesome-having strippers and models that you and your ilk post pictures of saying "I banged this chick." But the fact is this can and does attract women. Again, it's not the only reason - I'm also physically attractive, well-dressed, very deep-voiced, scored high on the dark triad, and 6' 4". Plus, I don't act like a nerdy guy or pretty boy. I (stupidly) asked the girl who I had sex with why she was interested in me, unable to comprehend such a violation of natural law, and she slurred back that I was funny, tall, really smart, and "a cute nerdy guy, I like guys like that." Males and females alike tell me I have an unusual story-telling ability that spellbinds an audience and makes me seem very wise and worldly. Roissy is right in that contrast is key. To quote my roommate's girlfriend: "When I first met you, I thought wow, this guy is tall! But I was completely unprepared for when you first smiled, opened your mouth and said "I didn't order a hooker." And as I stood outside the room and just started laughing, because it was so unexpected! I mean, you're cute, but you don't look like the kind of guy who says stuff like that! And I just knew that I had to get to know you better!" And this is the girl who helped set me up with Brown Sugar in the first place... See what I mean?

From reading the forums, gmac, I know you're a big bad-boy alpha who has had nine threesomes, and I congratulate you. But what works for you won't necessarily work for me. I'm a crazy fool, and a greater beta. My situation is unusual. I want a woman who will give me the unconditional affection I never got from my parents as well as a blowjob. Enjoy your supermodel-strippers who will tear you apart should you ever show the slightest weakness. I'm willing to take a reduction in attractiveness in return for stability, because I may be a very sexy beta but I am still a beta. My definition of "quality" is a girl with a pretty face, big tits, big ass, and a warm, sexy smile. Not a "10" or an "8." Perhaps that makes me weak, or an object of derision to real men or alpha players. But to me, game is merely a tool and a weapon in my quest for self-actualization and not a goal in and of itself. And isn't that the whole point? To be a "real man," women cannot be your mission? You're much older and more experienced than I am, so you probably know better, but remember - I'm nuts!

I'm going to take gringochileno's advice on this one: "This is really the root of your problem. You sound like an attractive, naturally charismatic, outgoing dude but your lack of self-esteem is preventing you from going after what you want because you don't think you'll get it. Go to this girl's party and tell yourself "I will fuck her and if I don't fuck her it will be because I did everything in my power to fuck her and she still wouldn't let me." You are never going to get laid if you never actually try to have sex with anyone so just be aggressive and let that inner caveman execute its genetic program." That sounds much better than "you are an annoying effeminate loser nerd who will die alone."

Well, thanks to everybody for giving me a kick in the ass to get moving in the right direction. Caveman and I are going to go off for some quality time together. The party's next Saturday - I'll let you all know if I'm successful.

Sincerely,
The Crazy Fool

[Gmac]

(03-15-2011 07:23 PM)thecrazyfool Wrote:  

3. Social circle game - all the advice I've read says the same thing: you can't do random approach game effectively in college because a girl needs to feel that her friends approve of you too.

Sure you can. Her friends don't even need to know about you, that's the great thing about college.

Quote:

And yes, baby steps - I lack knowledge, not confidence or appeal. I don't even need to approach - they come to me, and yet I don't do anything about it. You don't seem to understand that. It doesn't many how many women I approach if I can't even escalate.

Approaching is how you learn to escalate, it's where you get experience. You can't just sit around waiting for a girl to come to you -- aka missed opportunities and life passing you by. You gain this knowledge through countless experiences and approach attempts, and you'll have far fewer opportunities (much slower progression) if you only talk to women who come up to you.

Quote:

And don't forget, I'm only a greater beta. A man's got to know his limitations. I'm still trying to figure out how to ride a bike without training wheels and you're telling me to compete in the Tour De France. Maybe later, but not right now.

You are not pigeon-holed into any particular category unless you choose to be. I'm telling you to learn to smile at attractive girls before you graduate to something more difficult. Tour de France? You are going overboard.

Quote:

Oh, and by the way, people ARE out to get me.

Wrong. The sooner you stop thinking like this the sooner you'll improve your game.

Quote:

4. This may be difficult for you to comprehend, but women are actually attracted to intelligent, eloquent, humorous, well-spoken men, especially in an Ivy League environment.

Sure, some of that is true. That's also what they'd like you to believe. They'll also tell you they like nice guys while their actions (fucking players, assholes, and "bad boys") speak louder. Edit: I'm not saying these are bad qualities to have, but you can get a woman to love you just as unconditionally if you're a jobless bum -- just because you have game.

Quote:

You tell me to work with my strengths - that's a strength. I can't explain to you why it works, but there are also women who have a "type" such as "cute nerdy guy" or "pretty boy."

I'm just sharing my own experience and knowledge, the rest is up to you.

Quote:

From reading the forums, gmac, I know you're a big bad-boy alpha who has had nine threesomes, and I congratulate you.

This is your perception of me, which helps to illustrate my point of why appearances are so important.

Before learning about game I had a similar situation to Roosh: I was a classic beta male virgin terrified of women. Instead of being social I played video games all day like the majority of losers out there. I was completely socially inept and absolutely clueless when it came to women. I lacked the confidence and experience to land any girl. I may not have the debilitating illness that you claim but I know all too well what you are going through. It takes time, diligence, discipline, and a sincere drive to improve your game before you even begin see results.

Quote:

But what works for you won't necessarily work for me. I'm a crazy fool, and a greater beta. My situation is unusual. I want a woman who will give me the unconditional affection I never got from my parents as well as a blowjob. Enjoy your supermodel-strippers who will tear you apart should you ever show the slightest weakness. I'm willing to take a reduction in attractiveness in return for stability, because I may be a very sexy beta but I am still a beta. My definition of "quality" is a girl with a pretty face, big tits, big ass, and a warm, sexy smile. Not a "10" or an "8." Perhaps that makes me weak, or an object of derision to real men or alpha players. But to me, game is merely a tool and a weapon in my quest for self-actualization and not a goal in and of itself. And isn't that the whole point? To be a "real man," women cannot be your mission? You're much older and more experienced than I am, so you probably know better, but remember - I'm nuts!

I'm not sure why you think you're so much different from the rest of us or that all we want are supermodel 10s. Based on this quote I can see that you don't really understand players or the alpha/beta dichotomy. Game is a tool for every man, it just depends on how you choose to use it.

And for the record, I'd probably put myself somewhere just barely above the alpha threshold.

[thecrazyfool]

Bad news - I'm fairly certain that all of this has been for naught. I just got off Fbook chat with this girl and learned several things.

1. The party I was invited to - it wasn't actually hers, and it's been canceled. Because I had been invited to another party on the same day, I asked her if she wanted to be my guest (she hadn't been invited, and there were no girls attending that I was interested in.) She responded that she was going to yet another party then, and did not extend an invitation.

2. This exchange:
Me: oh, one more thing - I propose a trade. you give me your number and I'll give you mine. sound like a deal?
Her: Why?
Me: I collect phone numbers as a hobby. no, srsly.
Her: Well I don't give out my phone number as a hobby so no thanks
Me (trying to play it cool): fine then. well Happy st. patrick's day. I have to go, bye. signing off.

FUUUUUUUUUUUCKKKKK!

Now what do I do? Did she think I was serious? Is this a rejection or should I try again? I interpreted it as a rejection, but maybe it wasn't, and I was supposed to respond "To talk to you / to set up a date / etc." I thought about sending her a message saying "I don't collect numbers as a hobby, but I still would like yours. I'd prefer to chat in person instead of through inane facebook conversations, and a phone number would be a good way to accomplish that." OR something like that. What should I do? I'd prefer not to "move on," as I have nowhere worthwhile to move to and have sunk too much time, energy, and emotion into this particular venture only to abandon it. Yes, that's a sunk cost fallacy, but if there's anything I can still do before giving up please tell me. Is this what I get for being prematurely aggressive? Am I overanalyzing things again? Did I violate some crucial game tenet? Did I completely misinterpret her previous interest? Should I not have talked to her so much and gone for action earlier? Or is this what I get for arguing with gmac? Please help.

[Gmac]

(03-17-2011 05:17 PM)thecrazyfool Wrote:  

This exchange:
Me: oh, one more thing - I propose a trade. you give me your number and I'll give you mine. sound like a deal?

I don't get it, did you open her with that? If you had already built some rapport and she was into you, there are plenty of other ways to get the number without "proposing trades."

Quote:

Her: Why?

Me: I collect phone numbers as a hobby. no, srsly.

Boring, unfunny (especially online), not an attraction builder.

Quote:

Her: Well I don't give out my phone number as a hobby so no thanks

Now she's closed her vagina off to you forever.

Quote:

Me (trying to play it cool): fine then. well Happy st. patrick's day. I have to go, bye. signing off.

This is like backing away from a girl at a bar with your tail between your legs and telling her, "Thanks so much for talking to me, have a great night!" - beta/lame/DLV

Adding "no srsly" was the nail in the coffin. Pretty hard to come back after her last response.

Quote:

Now what do I do? Did she think I was serious? Is this a rejection or should I try again? I interpreted it as a rejection, but maybe it wasn't, and I was supposed to respond "To talk to you / to set up a date / etc." I thought about sending her a message saying "I don't collect numbers as a hobby, but I still would like yours. I'd prefer to chat in person instead of through inane facebook conversations, and a phone number would be a good way to accomplish that." OR something like that. What should I do? I'd prefer not to "move on," as I have nowhere worthwhile to move to and have sunk too much time, energy, and emotion into this particular venture only to abandon it. Yes, that's a sunk cost fallacy, but if there's anything I can still do before giving up please tell me. Is this what I get for being prematurely aggressive? Am I overanalyzing things again? Did I violate some crucial game tenet? Did I completely misinterpret her previous interest? Should I not have talked to her so much and gone for action earlier? Or is this what I get for arguing with gmac? Please help.

She rejected you, and it's possible she lied about the party to spare your feelings. Move on. The fact that you didn't get her number when you talked to her in person probably has a lot to do with it too. I typically advise against facebook/online game of any kind, you probably came across as pretty shady to her. 9 times out of 10, RL conversations/interactions are the best.

It looks like you're hung up on this one girl. You gotta see yourself as the prize, and the moment you start obsessing over a girl it's too late. Better to have multiple interests that you're working on at the same time.

And yeah, still over analyzing. Rejection is guaranteed from the majority of girls, that's why we call it a numbers game. Just gotta keep at it and learn from your mistakes until you improve.

[thecrazyfool]

I guess there's a lesson to be learned from this: I should just concentrate on schoolwork and not bother with this sort of thing. It's too much time and energy for too little results. Even the things that are "safe" are risky. I think it's just the truth that I'm not supposed to reproduce, at least from an evo psych perspective, because then I'd pass on my terrible genetic heritage. The girl who I did have sex with distanced herself quickly from me once she realized I had been a virgin. My time would be better spent earning money so I can buy prostitutes and escorts. I guess it's the curse of the beta: the only girls attracted to me while sober are the ones I don't want. And something tells me if I did reciprocate, they'd lose interest. I just wish I hadn't wasted six months learning game instead of trying to improve my grades. I wouldn't have had to lie to so many people. I blew it all with one stupid exchange. I guess I'll just never comprehend how two people form a relationship in real life (not the cliche movie version.) Now I can't ask anybody at school because I'm supposed to have had many relationships and know all about sex and game and relationship dynamics. I deserve this for being rude to forum members, and lying to everyone. The spider has been caught in his own web of deception.

I'm sure somebody's going to come along and tell me to get over it. But the truth is things like this are the story of my life, and I'm not talking about girls here. Anytime I try to do something for myself - myself, not my parents - I always fail. Anytime I try to make friends - I fail. Try to get a girlfriend - I fail. Try to get the type of job that I want, not the one that my parents want me to get - I fail. And now I have failed again. I have no inner game. What I have is desperation and madness. Just yet another failure in a long list of failures. When I don't take action, I fail. When I do take action, I fail. Now what I am supposed to make of that?

Gmac - No, I didn't open with that. It doesn't even sound like an opener. More of a closer.
I already had attraction too, that's the dumb part. Unless I misread that too. I'd talked to her several times on chat before, no problems. Did you not read my original super-long post on all the events leading up to this? What was I supposed to say: "Fuck you for leading me on and wasting my time?" I just don't understand how two people can get together if one party isn't supposed to return expressed interest. It always has seemed to me that the moment one reciprocates or pushes is the moment one fails. Taking action leads to failure for me, but it doesn't work that way for other people. My roommate, who is the most insecure, loserly, nerdy, engineer beta mangina in the history of the universe has a decently attractive girlfriend who's really nice, warm, and sweet. He met her at a party, and she liked him first. Then he fell all over her, and now they're together and very happy. From my point of view, it just seems like someone waved a magic wand and poof! relationship! Where was the intermediate stage? How did they know that they had interest in each other? Why didn't she reject him when he returned the interest? He doesn't know the first thing about game, breaks every rule in the book, and he's happy while I'm keyboard jockeying around the internet telling everyone about the soap opera of my life.

I think I need to finish therapy before I'm ready to have relationships with real people. I don't even comprehend concepts like mutual or unconditional affection and trust, so I'm probably going to be finished with college by the time I finish therapy and will have wasted the only time in my life where I have even the slightest chance of having a relationship. Sorry for wasting everyone's time, I wasn't ready to be asking questions on this site and playing a mating game where rejection is almost guaranteed when I can't even handle a simple, single rejection from the first time I have asked a girl for anything, and end up suffering an anxiety attack because of it. Gmac is right: I need to get my shit together before I can do any of this. Roosh, if you're reading this, you might want to delete this thread so I don't have to continue to suffer the indignity of being publicly outed - or leave it up as a warning as to how a single misstep can doom the entire venture.

[Gmac]

Wow. Just don't shoot up a school or anything bro, I've already been through that.

[gringochileno]

I think the reason why the girl is cold to you has less to do with one facebook exchange than your attitude in general. Based on the fact that you've written thousands of words about her and can't handle getting rejected just one time (over facebook chat no less, not even to your face), I'd say you're way overvaluing her and bad, needy game is leaking out. The best way to prevent that from happening is to work on multiple prospects at once. When you have a bunch of different wheels spinning, it becomes impossible to put too much value on any one of them.

Yeah and don't shoot up your school. It's one girl dude, get a little perspective.

[Moma]

Listen bro, it's one girl not the end of the world. There are so many fine women out there. If you are that into black women, why don't you hit up one of the islands close to America where they love dudes like you and get your fill? I think you are putting pussy on a pedestal. Get your fill of pussy and start to look at things in perspective.
You have more value than a woman, a man's value only continues to increase, a woman's peaks at 24 and begins to drop from there.

You are designed to fcuk until you drop dead (especially with the invention of Ciallis and Viagra) whereas a woman's pussy slowly begins to shut down after 24.

No matter what the exchange is, as long as you get out there and say something, it will work.

The trade proposal can work. I've used cornier lines, I've used straightforward lines, it depends on luck and the type of woman you approach. Some women's pussies get wet at cornball openings and others grow dry and tight.
You can't lose. The only way you lose is by not doing anything.

6'4 and skinny, you've got it made, man. And you got that loco ADD fcuk engine going for you? Use it, brah.

Do you want to fcuk this black woman or are you out to fcuk a lot? If you are going for the black woman, make your move soon.

Here are some numbers to crunch, Professor Tournesol.

Last time I heard there are 41 million black people in the U.S legally (not mentioning the illegal immigrants). I don't even think black hispanics are counted as blacks any more so there are probably more. Out of those 41 million, let's say 10 million of those are of fcukable age. Out of the 10 million, let's say at least 5 million of those are female. Since you like to overcalculate, think about those numbers. Even if you had threesomes every day of the week for the rest of your life, you'd never fcuk them all!
As fast as you busst a nutt, at least 1 female a day is maturing to a fcukable age.

You are in America, bro! I always tell my fam in America when they talk about the inability of some of their friends to game in America. Getting American puzzy is as easy as shitting your pants when you have the bubblies.

As Roosh said, American women LOVE to fcuk. That's like living in a bakery and starving to death.

Go out and get the job done, fam!