[speakeasy]

Study shows a steady drop in men that have given up working. I wonder if these men are going MGTOW or some other factor? And if they aren't working, how exactly are they eating?

http://www.npr.org/2014/08/11/338042751/...-workforce

[Sonsowey]

I know many men who do freelance work while their wives work steady jobs and provide healthcare etc.

[El Chinito loco]

I like how the article ignores the obvious historical reason and doesn't even begin to mention the flattening wages that necessitated this.

[Feisbook Control]

Probably a combination of things. Some would be on welfare of some form (perhaps disability?). Some would be living with parents. A big one, I suspect would be men in poorer areas shacking up with women who had a few kids out of wedlock and who would be collecting benefits for those kids. The men would attach themselves to that situation for the free/easy sex and the welfare and bail if/when things got messy for them. Another huge one, I suspect, is a massive growth in the black market. I bet there'd be tons of guys doing all sorts of stuff either for cash in hand or trade of goods and services.

The thing is that once men don't have to support a household, it's actually pretty easy to live very cheaply. A man could live in a cabin in the woods or rent a trailer, or even live out of a van, and pay for all of his other living costs pretty easily on a few hundred dollars a week if he didn't buy a lot of status goods and his only indulgences were a few beers each week and maybe an upgraded computer every few years. I know guys like this in the manosphere, and also in Asia.

Maybe some guys have cashed in their chips. Fifteen years ago, I met a guy who was in his mid thirties and had never married. He had been an engineer and had a business. Something had gone down with his business partner and so he'd got out. He had a truck with a motorcycle on it. He had some gadgets like GPS (back then), but his day to day life involved staying in hostels or camping in the countryside. Didn't have a girlfriend, wasn't really interested. Wasn't into nightlife in any way. Now that I think about it, he was probably the first MGTOW guy I ever encountered, though it wasn't called that then.

Put it this way: If you needed $300/week, that would be $15,000/year. If you assumed a 4% safe return, you'd need $375,000 to get that. My living expenses are approximately that, and I'm in a position now where if I didn't work/have my own businesses, I could live entirely off passive income right now anyway, and I'm getting way beyond 4% as well. I have a class of six private students who pay me about $60/hour, two hours a week. This semester it's going to four hours per week. That's going to be $240/week just from them. That's almost my entire living expenses right there.

Maybe more and more guys are just figuring this out. They just realise that the American/Canadian/Australian/whatever dream is not worth it. We (and our feminine Asian/Latina/Eastern European girlfriend/wives/children) will be fine. Who will really get shafted will be the beta men and the majority of women still invested in this fantasy back in the West.

[RockHard]

I think a lot of it is the rise of the welfare state increasing the possibility of living off of disability or welfare.

Some other possibilities:
1. Increased incarceration rates - increased something like 5x in the last 50 years.
2. Increase in black market/ gray market activity. Especially drug dealing, but also stuff like cigarette tax avoidance. Also related to #1, especially with the 3 strikes laws & other laws intended to remove judicial discretion.
3. Off the books labor. Get paid cash so you don't leave a trail for the tax man.

[Collide]

NPR Wrote:

So what can be done? Certainly more education and better education would make a difference.

No it wouldn't. About half of students who enter college do not finish.

Over the past century, brains became much more valued as manufacturing jobs slowly phased out in the presence of emerging technologies. In the 50's if you had a solid work ethic there was a pretty good chance of landing some type of respectable work. Today, you have to be educated. The uncomfortable problem is a good chunk of the population is below average intelligence. Granting loans and shoving these people into 4 year colleges is not going to work. Education needs to be rethought from the ground up with the sole prospect of gainful employment after graduation. There is a cultural stigma embedded in society that tells you it is absolutely necessary to have a BA. Anyone without a 4 year degree is treated like a second class citizen. Realistically, there is no reason why a 2 year education as an Aviation Technician should be looked down upon compared to a 4 year BA in Women's Studies. Charles Murray said something along the lines of "The BA is the work of the devil." and now I understand what he meant by that.

So I would disagree with NPR in that we don't need more education, we need varied education. With high speed internet connections as the norm hopefully online education takes off. People should feel comfortable getting the necessary career knowledge to enter the workforce without massive debt plaguing their conscience.

[puckerman]

I think there are a lot of factors involved, but I suspect more and more men are leaving the workforce for better things. Work sucks, so almost anything is better.

[Fender_Bender]

To roughly paraphrase Chris Rock, if men could fuck a woman in a cardboard box they would. You don't need much money if you are only spending on yourself.

[Kdog]

"Maybe more and more guys are just figuring this out. They just realise that the American/Canadian/Australian/whatever dream is not worth it."

I like that. And it's so true. Though, I wish more of my friends would figure this out. Instead of playing the status game financing a new truck/toy/tv/house.
I just smile when I hear the news talk about how retirement is getting harder and people are working longer. As if it's just some big secret. Stop buying so much shit and putting yourself in debt, don't get divorce raped or have more kids than you can afford, if any at all.
If people people just saw beyond the "0% financing for 84 months, BUY NOW" trap bullshit.

[Quintus Curtius]

There are many reasons for this trend, but we should see it not in isolation, but as part of an overall cultural shift of disparaging male contributions to society.

We note that women now outnumber men in graduate school.

Many women equal or surpass men in earnings, and may soon pull ahead of them.

Men are reacting in predictable ways. When you are not valued, when you are constantly marginalized and denigrated, then this eventually begins to seep into your subconscious. You begin to believe you are not worth much. Self-esteem is to some degree dependent on external stimuli.

We see the same dynamic in minority groups (religious or ethnic) that have been persecuted historically. They may adopt unsavory traits. They may dress less than presentably. They may become sullen and hostile. You come to believe that you truly may be second-rate. You just throw in the towel, so to speak.

Well, this is what happens to groups that are subject to persecution. Eventually, you begin to lose faith in yourself. It's a very vicious spiral.

This is why we have to fight for the restoration of masculinity. It is a truly sacred cause. If we don't do it, no one else will. Militancy in this regard should be seen as a virtue.

[Old Fritz]

Either way it's not good for society.

[WestIndianArchie]

"Certainly more education and better education would make a difference. But that's a profound, long-term challenge. David Autor says there's one smaller fix that would help — expand the earned income tax credit."

Really, that's what is going to make the difference?

1) more classes
2) a change on a line in a form

'You ain't got the answers" © Kanye

WIA

[Tuthmosis]

(08-11-2014 11:13 PM)Feisbook Control Wrote:  

Maybe more and more guys are just figuring this out. They just realise that the American/Canadian/Australian/whatever dream is not worth it. We (and our feminine Asian/Latina/Eastern European girlfriend/wives/children) will be fine. Who will really get shafted will be the beta men and the majority of women still invested in this fantasy back in the West.

Relevant:

   

[zombiejimmorrison]

More like going off into trades. I know plenty of guys and business owners who hire men for those trade jobs, no tax, cash in hand.

[Sp5]

(08-12-2014 01:25 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(08-11-2014 11:13 PM)Feisbook Control Wrote:  

Maybe more and more guys are just figuring this out. They just realise that the American/Canadian/Australian/whatever dream is not worth it. We (and our feminine Asian/Latina/Eastern European girlfriend/wives/children) will be fine. Who will really get shafted will be the beta men and the majority of women still invested in this fantasy back in the West.

Relevant:

I don't get it. Shouldn't it be a fat woman behind the HR desk instead of a caveman with a tie?

[heavy]

^^^ I didn't get it either

[YossariansRight]

(08-12-2014 08:16 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 01:25 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(08-11-2014 11:13 PM)Feisbook Control Wrote:  

Maybe more and more guys are just figuring this out. They just realise that the American/Canadian/Australian/whatever dream is not worth it. We (and our feminine Asian/Latina/Eastern European girlfriend/wives/children) will be fine. Who will really get shafted will be the beta men and the majority of women still invested in this fantasy back in the West.

Relevant:

I don't get it. Shouldn't it be a fat woman behind the HR desk instead of a caveman with a tie?

Or a fag. They also seem to gravitate to HR.

[Tuthmosis]

(08-12-2014 08:16 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  

I don't get it. Shouldn't it be a fat woman behind the HR desk instead of a caveman with a tie?

The Roosh-like character has taken a job at Human Resources strictly to urge men to get out of their conventional, restrictive corporate jobs and venture forth into an emancipated world of location-independent income flow, seeing the wide expanse of the Earth, and smashing higher-quality foreign pussy.

How was that not obvious?

[Bad Hussar]

(08-12-2014 08:16 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 01:25 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(08-11-2014 11:13 PM)Feisbook Control Wrote:  

Maybe more and more guys are just figuring this out. They just realise that the American/Canadian/Australian/whatever dream is not worth it. We (and our feminine Asian/Latina/Eastern European girlfriend/wives/children) will be fine. Who will really get shafted will be the beta men and the majority of women still invested in this fantasy back in the West.

Relevant:

I don't get it. Shouldn't it be a fat woman behind the HR desk instead of a caveman with a tie?

Maybe the guy with the beard is supposed to be Roosh? Shaking things up in HR.

You do get men in HR management positions. I can remember two male HR managers I've encountered. Both very good, and not at all like the typical (female) HR manager we talk about here.

[JuanQuinQuin]

I think that's pretty predictable. Human Civilization for the last 50 years have tried to tame an animal that almost have lived all his history on a cycle of conquering, suffering, wars, and tribalism. I do believe the next 100 years will be interesting for the homo sapiens.

Are we going to adapt as a specie to live and work in cubicles? Are we going to keep following leaders that do not relate with us at all? Or are we going to say to fuck with this and go back to our old ways?

I have seen tribes in Afghanistan happier than entire families in the Woodlands, Houston, TX. Those Afghans only had 4 sheep as their most precious possession on this earth.