[Hedonistic Traveler]

(10-01-2014 10:19 PM)Captain Ahab Wrote:  

I think that is why I give the nod to the Wire. The Wire had quality over a longer period of time, with Season 4 being its Magnum Opus. Also, it included more elements of society. I got to learn about the drug corners in inner city neighborhoods, the american working class, the politicians, the school system, and the newsroom, all in one show. Also, the character development was much broader over many different people in the show. There really is no main character in the Wire since everyone in the show has a story-from Bubbles the drug addict to Omar the rifleman that robs drug dealers, to Mcnulty the police officer who rebels against his superiors, to the inner city kids in the school system that deal with lack of funding for their education curriculum.

The Sopranos, in the end, is about Tony-one dimensional. The Wire was more comprehensive.

I hear that argument for The Wire over The Sopranos a lot, although I prefer the emphasis on Tony. Over the 60 hours or so of footage Tony must be on screen for at least 40 of them. How many other characters get that much time in that great of a role? McNulty probably got less than 10, and he's the closest thing to a lead character on The Wire. Gandolfini killed it too, I'm not sure if I've ever seen anyone take to a role like that before.

I do agree that The Sopranos should have lost a season at some point. Probably 4 or 5. The Wire had it's weaknesses too though, especially that 5th season, it was a massive letdown after 4 killer ones.

Either choice is definitely a good one, but I don't get people who go with Breaking Bad. I've never even been able to make it through the whole thing.

[TigerMandingo]

(10-01-2014 10:19 PM)Captain Ahab Wrote:  

The Sopranos, in the end, is about Tony-one dimensional. The Wire was more comprehensive.

While I agree with you that the show didn't hold up to the first 2 seasons, that statement is simply ludicrous. The Sopranos is anything BUT one-dimensional. There are a ton of layers, which were previously discussed on this thread and elsewhere.

[Nemausus]

(08-16-2014 12:30 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

I love the malapropos throughout the Sopranos.

I'm still in Season One in my re-watch.

In one episode Tony says to Camilla "You act like I'm Hannibal Lecture or something."

In the flashback episode, Tony's father is trying to convince Livia to move to Reno for a business opportunity and Livia bitches and won't go. Tony's father says "Livia, you're an albacore around my neck."

Ha, I watched a later episode this week where Carmine Sr. talks to Tony about being his in therapy. While offering his support to Tony, Carmine says "there's no more stigmata these days."

One of my favourite malapropos.

Another good one is when Tony tries to repeat Melfi's Amour Fou to Gloria.

"We had our... mo fo ... or whatever and it was nice."

[TigerMandingo]

"I agree with that Senator Sanitorium. He says if we let this stuff go too far, pretty soon we'll be fucking dogs." -Tony, talking to Dr. Melfi about homosexuality.

[Hedonistic Traveler]

(10-02-2014 10:25 AM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 10:19 PM)Captain Ahab Wrote:  

The Sopranos, in the end, is about Tony-one dimensional. The Wire was more comprehensive.

While I agree with you that the show didn't hold up to the first 2 seasons, that statement is simply ludicrous. The Sopranos is anything BUT one-dimensional. There are a ton of layers, which were previously discussed on this thread and elsewhere.

I'm guessing he meant the show was too focused on Tony, where The Wire was about an entire city. Really The Sopranos was about Tony's interactions with his families. So Family vs City.

Tony definitely isn't one-dimensional. Really few characters on that show are, at least the ones that got significant screen time. His immediate family is one of the best portray of a family I've ever seen. Carm, AJ, and Meadow were all so believable, even if they were insufferable.

[TigerMandingo]

(10-02-2014 02:40 PM)Hedonistic Traveler Wrote:  

Really The Sopranos was about Tony's interactions with his families. So Family vs City.

I don't quite agree. Yes, the show is centered around Tony and his family (2 families, really) but it's actually a microcosm of US society at large. The family is a metaphor for how dysfunctional and complex the world has become. In addition to that, the show deals with questions of racism, discrimination, domestic violence (ha), drugs, and IDENTITY. The last season is actually about the loss of identity, where Tony has dreams centered around his alter ego (Kevin Finnerty). Paulie and Bobby as well go through bouts of questioning their own identities.

[Hedonistic Traveler]

(10-02-2014 03:17 PM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 02:40 PM)Hedonistic Traveler Wrote:  

Really The Sopranos was about Tony's interactions with his families. So Family vs City.

I don't quite agree. Yes, the show is centered around Tony and his family (2 families, really) but it's actually a microcosm of US society at large. The family is a metaphor for how dysfunctional and complex the world has become. In addition to that, the show deals with questions of racism, discrimination, domestic violence (ha), drugs, and IDENTITY. The last season is actually about the loss of identity, where Tony has dreams centered around his alter ego (Kevin Finnerty). Paulie and Bobby as well go through bouts of questioning their own identities.

Oh yeah definitely, I phrased that poorly. What I meant was that the two shows deal with really similar themes of corruption, morality, violence, greed, and a general lack of opportunity. All very real issues in modern America. The Sopranos does it through the filter of family, using Tony's two families as the example. The Wire does it through the entire city. That was all I meant when I said family vs city. I didn't mean the problems were unique to Tony's family.

I agree with the loss of identity towards the end of The Sopranos. It's not even just Tony, Bobby, and Paulie. AJ and Eugene go through it too. Even Junior, although in his own, slightly more natural way.

I was too young to really watch these shows real time, it would have been an interesting experience. Both shows have very similar endings, things just go on.

Meadow is set to be the next Carmela, a mob wife. AJ is set to be more of a Little Carmine figure, legitimate work but with family connections. The final montage on The Wire shows Michael becoming Omar, Dukie becomes Bubbles, the black detective(the young one) becomes McNulty.

Time passes and only the characters change.

[Euphoric_Breeze]

Meadow would have been a mob wife had Jackie Aprile never died . They could've formed a beautiful couple . Jackie forced his way into the mob world after he quit school ,but Tone ordered a hit to have him clipped .
AJ never had the qualities of a mobster nor did Tony intend to involve him in the NY family .He was a pussy and cry baby par excellence .
If there ever was a Season 7 , it would've started with the song of "Frank Sinatra - It was a very good year" . Sil' named boss temporarily after the consent of the captains and Tony in the coma after getting shot by black dudes .

[Hedonistic Traveler]

(10-02-2014 08:49 PM)Euphoric_Breeze Wrote:  

Meadow would have been a mob wife had Jackie Aprile never died . They could've formed a beautiful couple . Jackie forced his way into the mob world after he quit school ,but Tone ordered a hit to have him clipped .
AJ never had the qualities of a mobster nor did Tony intend to involve him in the NY family .He was a pussy and cry baby par excellence .
If there ever was a Season 7 , it would've started with the song of "Frank Sinatra - It was a very good year" . Sil' named boss temporarily after the consent of the captains and Tony in the coma after getting shot by black dudes .

Well she was marrying Patsy Parisi's kid at the end of the series. She also wanted to be a lawyer for the mob, against her father's wishes. Jackie Jr was retarded, but Tony didn't order him to be killed. Ralphie did that just to fuck with Tony. Tony was ready to give him a pass, he just didn't want to say it.

AJ was a pussy, but he was following a similar path to Carmine Jr. Leaving the mob while staying connected. Odds are he'd return to the mob, similar to what Carmine Jr. did in the final seasons. Even if he wasn't successful, he would be making an attempt.

"It Was A Very Good Year" was already used as an intro. Maybe season 2 opening montage?

Really the North Jersey Mob would have been done with Tony's death. Who ever took over for Phil Leotardo would just have the Jersey family as a smaller crew under their family. It would also probably be Patsy heading them, not Sil. Definitely not Paulie who was opposed to any more responsibility. Most people agree that Patsy was the one who had Tony killed, it only makes sense for him to move up after.

[Dusty]

This is a great Red Pill scene. The girl in the scene is a rich Jewish girl (her father is a renowned surgeon) working as a D-girl for a movie producer. Christopher is connected to the mob and is a thug, psychopath and murder.

Look at her face around 2:10 when Chistopher intimidates the dude bumping into her at the club.

Later on she jumps him and fucks his brains out (even though she is married to his cousin).

[456]

^^ Terrific scene indeed. And one of the few times Christopher handled matters quietly instead of making more of a show than necessary. He knew which would generate more tingles.

Props to the cousin for not being a bitch -- while outshined by Christopher, the cousin at least laid down some prelim "watch it, buddy" + glare. If that were now, he would have winced and said "sorry" to the ibankers, heh.

Later in that epi, Christopher visits D-Girl at her hotel on his way to meet Favraeu. He enters her room and they end up fucking, as Dusty mentions. But if you look real close when she first opens the door and leads him through the room, her lingerie and clothing are already scattered around and there's a strong "post-fuck" vibe in there. Implying that she had just been fucking Favraeu as well (who during this time is chilling in his room, presumably post-bang).

My main picked that up right away; I wouldn't have noticed.

The Sopranos is chock full of alpha moments, subtle tells, tingle moments, and the like. It's great to watch with girls. If your shit is together they are projecting the alpha/tingles onto you and she'll enjoy calling out subtle observations. (Girls innately grok the red pill to some degree.) Compare this to watching a more mono-focused action movie with a girl, where such moments are typically surface-level. The Sopranos taps deep into the psyche, scene by scene.

[TigerMandingo]

Great vid, Dusty. It also reminded me of how Dr. Melfi was secretly attracted to Tony despite his anti-social tendencies. I can't locate the vid but there's a scene where he pins her down at her office and you can tell she's ready to go right then and there. The Sopranos is one of the very, very few shows that explores this un-PC fact about women.

[Hedonistic Traveler]

(10-21-2014 07:55 AM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  

Great vid, Dusty. It also reminded me of how Dr. Melfi was secretly attracted to Tony despite his anti-social tendencies. I can't locate the vid but there's a scene where he pins her down at her office and you can tell she's ready to go right then and there. The Sopranos is one of the very, very few shows that explores this un-PC fact about women.

I know the scene you're talking about, it's right after Uncle Junior tries to have Tony killed in Season 1. Melfi tells Tony that he needs to cut his mother off and Tony freaks out. I can't find a video either, I don't think it's up there.

And great scene Dusty. I always liked Christopher, it's nice to see him making a right move for once. He gets a lot of shit for being a moron, but he had a pretty shitty situation. No dad, a drunk for a mom, and a girlfriend who was ready to rat out everyone they knew to save herself.

[TigerMandingo]

Probably the best scene portraying Tony's dominance and "alphaness".

[Dusty]

Richie Aprile was a great psychopath. The actor was great ( I think he was being considered for the tony role before gandalfini got it).

There's another scene that cracks me up. Tony is chewing out Richie about something, and richie is giving him this psychopathic stare. Tony calls him out on it and calls it Aprile's "Manson lamps."

[TigerMandingo]

(11-17-2014 03:42 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

There's another scene that cracks me up. Tony is chewing out Richie about something, and richie is giving him this psychopathic stare. Tony calls him out on it and calls it Aprile's "Manson lamps."

Richie: "I'm working with Junior."
Tony: " I don't give a shit if you're working with Wal-maht"

[Nemausus]

A favourite all-time scene of mine is when Carmela goes to visit a Jewish psychiatrist and he tells her the cold hard truth about her life. Her rationalization spins into overdrive. She tunes out everything he says. And then he calls her out on it.

Quote:

Many patients want to be excused for their current predicament because of events that occurred in their childhood. That’s what psychiatry has become in America. Visit any shopping mall or ethnic pride parade and witness the results.

Quote:

One thing you can never say: You haven't been told.

[komatiite]

I always loved the soundtrack, I remember when I was a kid and my old man was obsessed with the Sporanos (even bought HBO Canada!) and whenever we took long road trips we had Peppers and Eggs on repeat.

Will never forget some of these songs, when I was about 16 and watched the series I had this weird feeling of deja vu whenever my favorite songs came on:

Been thinking of re-watching since I saw this thread. I'm sure I missed out on so much since I was so young when I saw it.

[Nemausus]

(11-17-2014 09:04 PM)komatiite Wrote:  

I always loved the soundtrack, I remember when I was a kid and my old man was obsessed with the Sporanos (even bought HBO Canada!) and whenever we took long road trips we had Peppers and Eggs on repeat.

Will never forget some of these songs, when I was about 16 and watched the series I had this weird feeling of deja vu whenever my favorite songs came on:

Been thinking of re-watching since I saw this thread. I'm sure I missed out on so much since I was so young when I saw it.

The way they weaved music into the show was masterful. Couple of instances that your post brought to mind:

The many sides of Tony Soprano come to the surface when he hears the Chi-Lites song:

Van Morrison - Glad Tidings
And we'll send you glad tidings from New York
Open up your eyes so you may see
Ask you not to read between the lines
Hope that you will come right in on time, woah

Tony B. had to pay for his crimes, to placate the rage coming from Phil and the New York crew. This song sets the stage and is featured throughout that particular episode.

I suspect we're around the same age. I'm in my late 20s, I was also a teenager when the show was on its original run. I've enjoyed watching the series all over again now that I'm older and wiser. I've pick up much more of the subtleties this time around, making it an even more enjoyable experience.

[Pride male]

Loved the show, except the ending. It sucked. I thought he got shot in the head by the way. Still dont understand how The Wire is s a better show.

[TigerMandingo]

Check out this scene, where Tony shows up at his goomah's (mistress) job and scolds her for getting in touch with Carmella.

Look at the way she stares at him, cracks a smile, and licks her lips at the 0:18 mark onwards when he grabs her by the neck. A very, very subtle moment where you see how some bitches are turned on by displays of male power.

[Hedonistic Traveler]

(11-20-2014 02:31 AM)Pride male Wrote:  

Loved the show, except the ending. It sucked. I thought he got shot in the head by the way. Still dont understand how The Wire is s a better show.

I know the ending got a lot of hate, but I loved it. You know what happened, it was a homage to "The Godfather" which 100% ended with Tony getting shot by the guy coming out of the bathroom.

Here's a quote on the original ending from Matt Servitto.

Quote:

Actor Matt Servitto (Agent Harris) told Entertainment Weekly that in the script, the scene continued with the man in the Members Only jacket emerging from the bathroom and starting to walk towards Tony's table before the screen cuts to black, but he preferred the ending that made the final cut of the episode

I don't get what people mean when they say they hated the ending. Did you just want to see some blood?

I thought it was great. We just cut into Tony's life in his therapists office in 1999 and we cut out just as suddenly. He's dead though.

[Pride male]

Is a Scarface or Public Enemy ending too much to ask for? I get it, Chase wants the viewers to think. Is a Scarface or Public Enemy ending too much to ask for? I get it, Chase wants the viewers to think. Is a Scarface or Public Enemy ending too much to ask for? I get it, Chase wants the viewers to think.

[Dantes]

I loved the ending. Whether you loved it or hated it, it has gone down as one of the most famous series endings ever.

[Dusty]

Here's a pretty good scene. Carmella (Tony's wife) finds out that Tony banged his mother's nurse (a one legged Russian). She asked during another fight what the Russian has that she doesn't have.

Tony gives it to her good starting at 3:30.