[speakeasy]

Interesting breakdown.

Pros:
http://www.askmen.com/top_10/dating/top-...ed_10.html

Cons:
http://www.askmen.com/top_10/dating/top-...ed_10.html

[Badstuber]

Read this before, interesting read indeed.

[kerouac]

Don't support the Wedding Industrial Complex!

Also, one of the cons listed is the "end of spontaneity" which makes me wonder... don't those of us who are single and hook up with different girls eventually fall into a sort of pattern? I don't think things have been too spontaneous in my hook up life. Yeah, instead of a car it might be a park or something, but after a while it's all the same shit. Maybe it's just me...

[MiXX]

"I found a shortcut to marriage. Truly, I found it! I am going to travel the world, find the woman that hates me the most, and give her half of my shit".

-- an unknown, stand-up comic in the cellars of NYC 2002.



Mixx

[oldnemesis]

This is interesting link as I agree pretty much with all pros and disagree with most cons:

10 - "Marriage will make her let herself go". It depends on a woman, and I bet everyone can come up with some examples when it is not the case.
9 - "Marriage is the end of options". Not necessary. I know quite a lot of couples who have been married for a long time (some over 50 years), and are not monogamous. If variety is important for you, find a girl who wouldn't have problems with that. They exist.
8 - "Marriage is expensive". Wedding is as expensive as you make it. We got married in a city hall on the way to work, it took us 15 minutes and something like $2 fee. We threw in a little party afterward, but I think we've got more back in gift that we spent on it. My friend got married here in US recently in Vegas, and I doubt it cost them more than $200.
7 - "Marriage is just paperwork". Which comes with important government-provided benefits. Estate, hospital visits, dependency on health insurance and so on.
6 - "Marriage is the end of spontaneity" - didn't get that one. There will be still enough spontaneity in life.
5 - "Marriage is constant compromise" - true. But if you choose your partner wisely, you won't have to sacrifice a lot (if anything).
4 - "Marriage is the end of sex". See 9.
3 - "Marriage often fails". So does everything in this life. Driving often fails too, drivers die every day in crashes. And life ALWAYS fails.
2 - "Marriage is the end of taking risks". Again, choose wisely. I skydive, and my wife accepts the risk which comes with it. We also have a lot of skydiver married couples.
1 - "Marriage is forever". No, it is as long as both of you want it.

One of valid reasons NOT to get married, though, is if you both make a lot of money. My accountant said couple of years ago that being married costs us around 10K a year in taxes. Well, now we see how much our love worth

[MiXX]

The trick is choosing wisely. Many people both male/female choose a wife/husband because they confuse a good fuck in bed, as a great wife/husband. Lust is made into love, and that seldom works.

Mixx

[oldnemesis]

(11-23-2010 04:19 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

The trick is choosing wisely. Many people both male/female choose a wife/husband because they confuse a good fuck in bed, as a great wife/husband. Lust is made into love, and that seldom works.

Or because of looks, without considering the personality. This is a typical mistake young (25 and younger) people do. Truth is, looks matter very little in any long-term relationship. Quite often you may see a couple when one of the partners is rather ugly - but they are happy.

Looks may bring people together, but it is personalities which keep them together.

[Rocco81]

Good posts. I think its just important as some of you guys are saying, that you pick very wisely. Going out and finding the hottest slut at the club (places like DC LA Miami) might be fun for a fuck, but rarely if ever will it be good wifing material. A bitch who constantly craves attention and knows she can get it from some scumbag in a club whenever you slip up, will do just that...of course until she is old and wrinkled then she will just nag your ass all the time.

The whole open relationship stuff that someone mentioned, that can work. However I think its best when you work it super Alpha. Many of the men in my family where like that. They were old school to the bone, in that they took care of the family, stayed together for thier kids etc. However they came and went pretty much as they pleased. They got some tail on the side, but were not bitch enough to fall in love and let it ruin their family. That is how it should be IMO. These guys wives sort just accept it and turn a blind eye. As long as its not every night and he is bringing in the $$ and bieng a good father, they don't bitch about it.

[speakeasy]

(11-23-2010 11:28 PM)Rocco81 Wrote:  

The whole open relationship stuff that someone mentioned, that can work. However I think its best when you work it super Alpha. Many of the men in my family where like that. They were old school to the bone, in that they took care of the family, stayed together for thier kids etc. However they came and went pretty much as they pleased. They got some tail on the side, but were not bitch enough to fall in love and let it ruin their family. That is how it should be IMO. These guys wives sort just accept it and turn a blind eye. As long as its not every night and he is bringing in the $$ and bieng a good father, they don't bitch about it.

That's how it is in most the world. I don't know if that's how it "should" be, but that's definitely the easiest situation for us men as far as having the best of both worlds, you get a hot meal on the table every night, steady sex from your wife, the companionship of family and kids, but also get your innate impulse for variety satiated. I don't condone it per se, but I certainly understand it and don't judge the guys who go that route. Fucking the same woman for 40 years has got to be tough, even if you love her.

[Rocco81]

Yep right on Speakeasy. Plus as with any real Alpha, these guys wisened up and realized that even when you get a fling it will eventually go stale and lose its fire and its not worth ruining the family over. Fact is a fling seems hot and great, until a few months go by and she will start to nag and annoy you just like any other girlfriend of wife would, sooo....you go find some tail, bang and roll back to the one that really cares about you and takes care of your kids.

I had a lady tell me that her husband was a maniac for women, but kept her satisfied, was a good father, provider and protector and kept his business very private. She worshipped the ground he walked on. Seemed to work well for the both of them.

[Jim Kirk]

This is an old battle for sure and I could fill pages about it - some thoughts without saying too much given who knows that my handle is often Jim Kirk.

Most of the ask.men points are applicable to anyone in this country like, for example, 'letting yourself go.' 50% of any women on any college campus in New York are already physically gone - in a lot of cases its even more than that. Irish-American women in downstate New York seem to weight 165 pounds minimum.

As far as picking a wife - find that study that just about all bloggers reported about divorce statistics and number of sexual partners. Namely if you marry a virgin its an 18% divorce risk whereas if she has just one sexual partner aside from you - the number doubles; and if its 10 or more partners it goes to 80%. - Rossy really cut up on this one bascially saying 65% of women were scientifically un-marryable after college.

The biggest element in all of this - is that you have to find someone who is religiously and ethically opposed to divorce or separation with kids under 18 in the household. Like it or not - I would bet 95% of the girls you guys have banged over the years are bad marriage risks - that assumes the girl was interested in marriage in the first place. I would bet 80% of American females are bad marriage risks. Add 1 part delusions of grandeur + 1 part mother-in-law + 1 part screwy divorce laws = a country full of women worth nothing more than cum dumpsters.

With easy divorce laws - a guy who gets frisky with a Dominican in a Latin dancehall is 'cause' for divorce and loss of half his assets and the real bomb - loss of having the kids under the same roof and damage to them. This is one thing I made sure of. Marrying the more innocent type of girl however causes a bunch of problems in and of itself that have to be worked through - some of which took me 10 years - some of which took the my spouse's 'accidental' interception of a text message from a 22 year Dominican dancer from Astoria. Like everything - there are small problems and big problems - its a big problem if you get served a summons and complaint from the mother of your three kids who, upon getting an Associates degree in Medieval philosophy, has now found herself a the age of 48.

The 'marriage' problems are really just a different angle on the cultural problems destroying America - I would hate to tell you how many adults I new from the neighborhood who suddenly, at the age of 45, 'found' themselves and left their families. If you do that and you have kids 18 years and under in the household you have probably ruined your kids - particularly if you have daughters.

One other thing - the rise of 'career women' - its a strange conundrum maybe someone wants to write about - strippers and dancers who are not completely addicted to some controlled substance - would be better marriage prospects than a Manhattan career woman with a law degree or similar? I made a joke once to my sister in law that her father and I went out for a drink at the 'Oasis' - strip club. The boos and hisses followed. The only thing I thought was that the stripper in there would make a better wife and mother than my sister in law. What kind of country do we live in when this is the case ????

[subutai]

These "Pros" aren't really about marriage. They're mostly about having a long-term relationship partner. A "life companion".

I'm sure all of us would like to have someone who becomes our partner for life, esp. as we get into our 40s, 50s, and beyond.

[oldnemesis]

(11-24-2010 11:17 PM)Jim Kirk Wrote:  

As far as picking a wife - find that study that just about all bloggers reported about divorce statistics and number of sexual partners. Namely if you marry a virgin its an 18% divorce risk whereas if she has just one sexual partner aside from you - the number doubles; and if its 10 or more partners it goes to 80%.

That's the study: http://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2010...cuity.html

[speakeasy]

Correlation doesn't mean causation though. If a girl is a virgin at marriage, it's probably because she's very religious. There's really no other reason I can think of as to why a girl would be a virgin at marriage. And if she's very religious, I think she's going to be less likely to divorce on a whim.

[subutai]

I'm by no means an expert on long-term relationships, marriage, or life partnerships.

But after having been with 100-150 women ranging from ugly trolls to elite fashion models, I'd just be happy being with a sexy girl (or two) -- where she and I enjoy talking to one another, we make each other laugh, we give each other violent orgasms, we respect one another, and I still want to be next to her after having bust a nut.

It's when I deviate from the basic things above in search of something that satisfies my ego -- e.g. giving up a common sense of humor just because she's really hot -- that my relationships become doomed to fail before they even begin.

[hydrogonian]

(11-24-2010 11:17 PM)Jim Kirk Wrote:  

The biggest element in all of this - is that you have to find someone who is religiously and ethically opposed to divorce or separation with kids under 18 in the household. Like it or not - I would bet 95% of the girls you guys have banged over the years are bad marriage risks - that assumes the girl was interested in marriage in the first place. I would bet 80% of American females are bad marriage risks. Add 1 part delusions of grandeur + 1 part mother-in-law + 1 part screwy divorce laws = a country full of women worth nothing more than cum dumpsters.

truth.

guys can realize this early, or find out later after paying a lot to do so. Referring to women in terms of risk is completely appropriate and underutilized. Marrying a woman is exactly like throwing one large bet down at a table game in a casino. Except when you lose, they don't just take your money, but part of your life and your soul over a lengthy period of time.

Insofar as American women being bad bets, throw in the attractiveness filter and your completely fucked. But just like a Casino, you could also buck the enormous odds and get lucky. However, observation of celebrity culture tells us that personal money, fame, and looks are no guarantee that you will get lucky with a good wife. Its more about your personal ability to recognize a better bet from a bad one than any of your superficial traits.

Also, from what I observe, sole virtue of being a player gives you no above average ability to discern between good bets and bad bets. I see guys who have women throwing themselves at them choosing god-awful women, and having no particular awareness that they've done so. I've asked them, and its not that they don't care either. They legitimately can't pick up on the often subtle but early signals that their woman would assuredly be a nightmare in the future, especially if she were to get that ring.

I think an active desire to pick out good quality women is necessary before you even begin to hone the skill, which takes a while to build in and of itself. That is, unless you get lucky.

I always enjoy Jim's posts.

[playa_with_a_passport]

(11-23-2010 11:28 PM)Rocco81 Wrote:  

someone mentioned, that can work. However I think its best when you work it super Alpha. Many of the men in my family where like that. They were old school to the bone, in that they took care of the family, stayed together for thier kids etc. However they came and went pretty much as they pleased. They got some tail on the side, but were not bitch enough to fall in love and let it ruin their family. That is how it should be IMO. These guys wives sort just accept it and turn a blind eye. As long as its not every night and he is bringing in the $$ and bieng a good father, they don't bitch about it.

Chris Rock had a comedy routine about this where he said that the problem with cheating is that you are giving your wife/girlfriend a "free Dick" certificate and you don't know with who and when she's going to redeem it. Also, sluts aren't the only type of women who like different dicks sliding in and out of them. So called "good girls" like variety as well. Therefore, if I ever get married and the old lady knows I am getting side action, I am not naive enough to believe that she's going to be at home all day baking cookies for me while I am at work. You can't have everything, a faithful wife and fuck all the side pussy you want. It's always funny to me how married guys who cheat constantly are always bragging about how faithful their wives are. If they only knew...

[K-man]

As a married man, let me share my opinion:
1. Do it only when you are ready to have children immediately. No sense to get married just for marriage's sake. Kids will make both you and your wife want to work harder to make the marriage work (although no guarantee).
2. Also, do it only after you've lived it up for a while. Not that you'd ever get sated with fucking hot new women, but it is easier to accept being hitched when you can say hey, I've had my fair share of fun when I was younger. I got married at 33.
3. Choose very carefully - no need to stress how important that is. Better pick a woman who is good-tempered, dependable, has good homemaking skills, etc. than a 10 who will expect diamonds and louis vuitton bags. My wife is a 7-8 girl-next-door type, and even though I've fucked some 9's and even a 9+, I would never have married them. Hard to find good wife material.

And yes, marriage does bring some stresss into your life, but when the kids come, you will realize it was all worth it. We have a baby girl now and raising her is a more satisfying experience for me than banging the 100+ sluts that I've banged. Although I still try not to give up the latter.

[oldnemesis]

(11-25-2010 08:25 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Correlation doesn't mean causation though. If a girl is a virgin at marriage, it's probably because she's very religious. There's really no other reason I can think of as to why a girl would be a virgin at marriage. And if she's very religious, I think she's going to be less likely to divorce on a whim.

There are even more problems with this study. If you look carefully, you see that adjustment for both income and education changes the score less than 1% which can't really be true. Another red flag is difference between 3 and 4 partners, and 4 and 5.

I'm also surprised it didn't include the age. I mean, statistics for an 18yo entering the first marriage who had 9 sex partners should be significantly different from a 30yo entering the first marriage who had 9 sex partners. Merging them together produces something we call "average patient temperature in the hospital", i.e. a mathematically correct result which has no statistical value.

[metalhaze]

if you're living in the western world then why not just have common law i.e. live together? getting a civil marriage, since getting married in the church has no legal ramifications, does not have any advantages to the man unless the women has a lot of money ( a rare thing).

[subutai]

(11-26-2010 09:49 AM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

(11-24-2010 11:17 PM)Jim Kirk Wrote:  

The biggest element in all of this - is that you have to find someone who is religiously and ethically opposed to divorce or separation with kids under 18 in the household. Like it or not - I would bet 95% of the girls you guys have banged over the years are bad marriage risks - that assumes the girl was interested in marriage in the first place. I would bet 80% of American females are bad marriage risks. Add 1 part delusions of grandeur + 1 part mother-in-law + 1 part screwy divorce laws = a country full of women worth nothing more than cum dumpsters.

truth.

guys can realize this early, or find out later after paying a lot to do so. Referring to women in terms of risk is completely appropriate and underutilized. Marrying a woman is exactly like throwing one large bet down at a table game in a casino. Except when you lose, they don't just take your money, but part of your life and your soul over a lengthy period of time.

Insofar as American women being bad bets, throw in the attractiveness filter and your completely fucked. But just like a Casino, you could also buck the enormous odds and get lucky. However, observation of celebrity culture tells us that personal money, fame, and looks are no guarantee that you will get lucky with a good wife. Its more about your personal ability to recognize a better bet from a bad one than any of your superficial traits.

Also, from what I observe, sole virtue of being a player gives you no above average ability to discern between good bets and bad bets. I see guys who have women throwing themselves at them choosing god-awful women, and having no particular awareness that they've done so. I've asked them, and its not that they don't care either. They legitimately can't pick up on the often subtle but early signals that their woman would assuredly be a nightmare in the future, especially if she were to get that ring.

I think an active desire to pick out good quality women is necessary before you even begin to hone the skill, which takes a while to build in and of itself. That is, unless you get lucky.

I always enjoy Jim's posts.

All good points.

A guy I respect immensely for his charismatic game, Wayne Elise (Juggler) ended up divorced.

We all know Mystery hasn't had much luck with his long-term relationships (although I hear he has a kid now).

Neil Strauss (of The Game) also broke up with his girl and is dating......a party girl who used to date Mystery! All that game and he ends up dating some party chick he met through Mystery? Man, what a waste.

The list goes on. Game definitely does not translate into intelligence in choosing the right girl for a LTR.

[speakeasy]

(11-26-2010 07:02 PM)K-man Wrote:  

As a married man, let me share my opinion:
1. Do it only when you are ready to have children immediately. No sense to get married just for marriage's sake. Kids will make both you and your wife want to work harder to make the marriage work (although no guarantee).
2. Also, do it only after you've lived it up for a while. Not that you'd ever get sated with fucking hot new women, but it is easier to accept being hitched when you can say hey, I've had my fair share of fun when I was younger. I got married at 33.
3. Choose very carefully - no need to stress how important that is. Better pick a woman who is good-tempered, dependable, has good homemaking skills, etc. than a 10 who will expect diamonds and louis vuitton bags. My wife is a 7-8 girl-next-door type, and even though I've fucked some 9's and even a 9+, I would never have married them. Hard to find good wife material.

And yes, marriage does bring some stresss into your life, but when the kids come, you will realize it was all worth it. We have a baby girl now and raising her is a more satisfying experience for me than banging the 100+ sluts that I've banged. Although I still try not to give up the latter.

Great post. Every man should read this.

[hydrogonian]

(11-26-2010 07:02 PM)K-man Wrote:  

3. Choose very carefully - no need to stress how important that is. Better pick a woman who is good-tempered, dependable, has good homemaking skills, etc. than a 10 who will expect diamonds and louis vuitton bags.

I've learned that any phrase akin to: "I have a weakness for jewelry" is an early red flag that should be paid attention to Even if she seems to be 'cool' (is funny, likes to fuck, smoke, drink, is laid back, whatever) in every other possible way. Once you hear something like this, pay very close attention to the other subtle (if she's good) or not-so-subtle warning signs. They should start coming in like clockwork. Ignore or dismiss them at your peril.

I've learned that once your needs for attractiveness are met as a base standard, then next thing to be sure of, other than mental stability, is how she treats others. Is she aware of the needs and feelings of others? And if so, does she care? A great first test for this is how she treats waitstaff at restaurants. Then, observe how she treats her family (people who she lets her guard down around, ie: not you ). If she goes out of her way for her family, or cares about their feelings in circumstances where it would be more convenient for her not to, then that's the next great test of her character. If she's gaming you for a ring, then she can put up the caretaker front until she's married. After that, you might find yourself waking up next to a bitch who only cares about herself, unless 'caring' about your feelings or needs is a direct route to something else that she wants.

[Rocco81]

@ Playa: Of course this is true in some cases, but the more alpha and more in demand the man is the less likely this woman is going to cheat.
Us guys we usually cheat out of the need to bang. We all know that there are some women out there that are naturally more horny than others, but most women, oncethey have bed down with a real Alpha (Alpha in the he takes of his shit...not just fucks around and acts like an asshole) I say are less likely to cheat than a woman with a Beta Non cheating husband who cannot handle his bitch. Know what Im saying?

I guess my point is a weak Beta is way more likely to have his old lady fucking someone behind his back regardless if he ever cheats in the first places VS A strong Alpha is more likely to keep his bitch faithful or atleast keep her faithful for much much longer regardless if he gets new tail or not.

(11-26-2010 10:08 AM)playa_with_a_passport Wrote:  

(11-23-2010 11:28 PM)Rocco81 Wrote:  

someone mentioned, that can work. However I think its best when you work it super Alpha. Many of the men in my family where like that. They were old school to the bone, in that they took care of the family, stayed together for thier kids etc. However they came and went pretty much as they pleased. They got some tail on the side, but were not bitch enough to fall in love and let it ruin their family. That is how it should be IMO. These guys wives sort just accept it and turn a blind eye. As long as its not every night and he is bringing in the $$ and bieng a good father, they don't bitch about it.

Chris Rock had a comedy routine about this where he said that the problem with cheating is that you are giving your wife/girlfriend a "free Dick" certificate and you don't know with who and when she's going to redeem it. Also, sluts aren't the only type of women who like different dicks sliding in and out of them. So called "good girls" like variety as well. Therefore, if I ever get married and the old lady knows I am getting side action, I am not naive enough to believe that she's going to be at home all day baking cookies for me while I am at work. You can't have everything, a faithful wife and fuck all the side pussy you want. It's always funny to me how married guys who cheat constantly are always bragging about how faithful their wives are. If they only knew...

[Cobra]

I should have read these posts 2 weeks leading into the day I got married . I do have a great wife (good homemaker, takes care of shit really well) and a beautiful 1 year old daughter. She was born in the US (from a guyanese-indian family). I love her but her american sensibilities annoy the fuck out of me. So much that I realize that I need to venture out in order to be happy. I have a trip coming up overseas that should help once I pick up my bearings that I lost in these few years.