[Dantes]

I lived in Manhattan for four years, but now I am living in the suburbs due to work. I tried the reverse commute, but I came to the conclusion that having a difficult commute is a waste of time and not worth the negative effects on overall quality of life. I made my choice so I make the best of the situation.

On average, I am in Manhattan 2-3 times per week for gaming, dates, a little bit of work or hanging out with friends. The culture for most people who live in Manhattan is such that if you live outside the island you might as well be living in Siberia. It is very difficult to convince a girl to come to your place if she lives in Manhattan. This is a big investment on her part in the early phases of dating and unlikely to happen.

Bad logistics for NYC is difficult to overcome but not a death sentence. I am not including Brooklyn as bad logistics as certain parts are considered very desirable now. Here are few ways I use to overcome bad logistics. This might be relevant if you are living in Long Island, New Jersey, Westchester or Rockland County.

1.As stated, girls are not coming back to your pad. Manhattan is a city of mass transit and taxis. Most people don’t have a car. Psychologically leaving Manhattan becomes a big deal and a girl won’t do it until she is willing to make an investment in you. My best bet for sealing the deal has been inviting myself over for a drink. I have been surprised at how often this has actually worked. I have only done this with girls who live alone.

A girl’s preference is to fulfill her carnal desires outside her world, where her neighbors and doormen won’t pass judgment. I don’t use the weasel technique because girls in NYC will see right through and tell you to piss in the alley. Charisma, interesting conversation, good wine at a nice joint and then a suggestion to grab a bottle of wine and chill out at her place represents my best chance.

2.I lay the foundation early that I live outside Manhattan but I have an office that I work out of in Manhattan and I often rent an apartment or hotel for convenience. Before the date, I check my Hotel Tonight’s app on my phone to get an idea of some cheap stays. I make it seem like I am staying in the hotel for certain. Then if things are moving along well, I invite her to my hotel for a drink. If she agrees, I excuse myself to the bathroom and in two clicks I book the room. I have seen rooms for a low as 95 bucks. Remember, you can only book the room the same day.

When I used to live in Manhattan, I would laugh when a friend who was coming to visit asked for a hotel suggestion. I had no clue and most people who live in Manhattan never see the inside of a hotel room. I have found that the prospect of going to a cool hotel in Manhattan represents something new and different for these girls. Something in itself that excites them.

3.Between dates 3-5, I invite the girl to my place for dinner. However, this is still too early that most girls from Manhattan will not take a bus out to the suburbs. Ultimately, I need to go a lot of driving. Pick her up, drive her to my place, drive her back to the city and drive myself home. It is a big hassle and investment in my time, but it is almost a sure thing if they agree and go along with the plan.


Lessons I have learned:

My overall Game has become much tighter in response to bad logistics. I have to become more interesting, charismatic, bold in my escalation and persistent. I am abroad right now with tight logistics and I can feel myself relying on this factor while neglecting other parts of my Game. Most importantly, bad logistics has made me much better at escalating early on and boldly.

In order to pull this off with quality girls, you must know the city very well…. nightspots, restaurants, cultural activities. Because I have lived in Manhattan and the area for a long time, I know it better than any girl I have dated. You can’t be that lame suburbanite who lives 10 miles from the greatest city in the world and only manage to come in to see a Yankee game.

I am willing to commitment to time, energy spent, money spent on dates for a high quality woman. After all what is the alternative. Finally, if you have a weakness in one area, reframe it as an opportunity to become strong in other areas.

[unbowed]

(07-16-2014 05:15 PM)Dantes Wrote:  

1.As stated, girls are not coming back to your pad. Manhattan is a city of mass transit and taxis. Most people don’t have a car. Psychologically leaving Manhattan becomes a big deal and a girl won’t do it until she is willing to make an investment in you. My best bet for sealing the deal has been inviting myself over for a drink. I have been surprised at how often this has actually worked. I have only done this with girls who live alone.

This is funny. I've been in situations where technically I've been closer home than a girl knee deep in another borough, but the psychology is all that matters and she would rather 'go home' because it's 'closer' (read: more familiar and not as adventurous as you'd think).

Away games are tricky and chances that a girl lives alone who is under 30 in NYC is rare (but doable, ran into some spoiled daddy's girls). Other times I've seen girls change disposition from making out and groping on the bench to slamming the door on me because their roommate was around, then still other girls who didn't bat an eye that their roommates were banging in the living room and casually walked me to the bedroom.

At night, more so than "what do you do", NYC girls almost always ask "where do you live?" Some will say it's to gauge your status, wealth etc. I say they're DTF that quickly and if you are "down the block" it's bang on like it's nobody's business.

I experimented with this last year. Go out, open a girl, have a BS convo for a few minutes. If and when "So where do you live??" comes out I say "a few blocks down" smirking. Motion to leave, escalate and makeout, then when the moment of truth comes.... I point to the park, say my roommate's sexiling me, say her place would be better or come clean. Needless to say the love bubble usually pops at this point. But the look on their face is priceless. Am I dark triad?

(07-16-2014 05:15 PM)Dantes Wrote:  

A girl’s preference is to fulfill her carnal desires outside her world, where her neighbors and doormen won’t pass judgment. I don’t use the weasel technique because girls in NYC will see right through and tell you to piss in the alley. Charisma, interesting conversation, good wine at a nice joint and then a suggestion to grab a bottle of wine and chill out at her place represents my best chance.

This matches my experience as well. "Can I use your bathroom" get me pointed to the bushes or to the 90000 bars around her (flake alert). One girl let me up and then waited by the door. When I came out her roommate was sitting on the couch, glancing my way in the dark. Yep, she never responded to my text.

(07-16-2014 05:15 PM)Dantes Wrote:  

2.I lay the foundation early that I live outside Manhattan but I have an office that I work out of in Manhattan and I often rent an apartment or hotel for convenience. Before the date, I check my Hotel Tonight’s app on my phone to get an idea of some cheap stays. I make it seem like I am staying in the hotel for certain. Then if things are moving along well, I invite her to my hotel for a drink. If she agrees, I excuse myself to the bathroom and in two clicks I book the room. I have seen rooms for a low as 95 bucks. Remember, you can only book the room the same day.

This sounds quite useful. I'm going to incorporate this next time I have a date or 1hr+ interaction. Thanks for the tip.

(07-16-2014 05:15 PM)Dantes Wrote:  

3.Between dates 3-5, I invite the girl to my place for dinner. However, this is still too early that most girls from Manhattan will not take a bus out to the suburbs. Ultimately, I need to go a lot of driving. Pick her up, drive her to my place, drive her back to the city and drive myself home. It is a big hassle and investment in my time, but it is almost a sure thing if they agree and go along with the plan.

I'm impressed that you can get girls back out on 3-5 dates from Manhattan. What kind of girls are you getting to come back out like this?

If I have a girl's attention at the moment, that's one thing. Once the interaction is drawn out past the day, I see snowflakes as I remember the plethora of bars and dating apps she has at her disposal.

My adaptation to being right outside Gotham is go-for-broke-gauntlet-style-away night game. Guess I'm still on the no-dating challenge as I feel more alive going home empty handed than being shackled to a highly volatile #.

I remember a Roosh tweet:

Quote:

My game energy used to be 8 and my logistics 2. Today my game energy is 2 and my logistics 8.

I've been playing this gauntlet of away games, high energy rambler for 2 years now, and it's wearing on the soul. I'm in my mid-20s so can probably continue to grind it out a little longer, but the ultimate solution is relocation (strictly overseas) or make a crapton more money (lots more grinding necessary and I'll have to dial down gaming considerably to make it happen).

I'd still rather have tight logistics and lazy game than have to be the entertainer, pushing all the right buttons, with a higher risk of going home empty handed due to a technicality.

Seems like the archetype of the NYC player is slightly older with either logistics on lock for years or a lucrative career, and then short-term ballers who can splurge on city AirBnB. Everyone else has to grind.

[jimukr104]

As a native NYer I agree with most..but one point. IMO the majority of chicks you meet in Manhattan are usually going to be from the boroughs anyway so logistics won't always solve your problem since most don't want to walk of shame right to work without going home 1st and as mentioned most in Manhattan have roommates.
I would never live in Manhattan for noise pollution and other reasons..but I found having a car and finding a good parking space just as important since you will have something most don't have.You can get her home either your place or hers.

* i should disclose that my father has a 1 room studio in a large midtown hotel that is empty 8 months of the yr while he is in Florida and Vegas so I did have kind of an emergency crash place. But I rarely had to use it.

[Macklin]

I lived on LI and commuted into Manhattan my first year of work. I was never able to figure out the logistics as well as you did. I would mostly go out to the local bars when I was single. A few months in I found a gf and I was wifed up for the rest of my time in suburbs.

I live in the UES now. Even thought it's in Manhattan I run into similar problems during night game. When I'm out downtown the UES might as well be in another borough as most people don't venture up there. However, if I meet girls who live in the UES, its a wrap. Splitting a taxi back uptown is always a clutch move.

Anyways, respect for putting in the work and figuring out a system while living in the suburbs.

[Vaun]

You're doing what I would have recommended. Hotel Tonight is a fantastic app, so much so that when I travel I don't even book hotels anymore. I can get top hotels for 30-50% less.

If you can afford this, do this all day long. And just tell the girl what you are doing. Just tell her you moved outside of Manhattan, and that you "never do this". It may impress her so much you get her back out on date 3-5, if thats what you want. Plus it will probably make you more mysterious, you're more likely to get laid if she thinks you're married, haha.

Think of it this way, you are paying to play. And when you go home, you have no liability of having a new girl to your place. Its actually better for you in so many different ways to not have her back to your place.

If you are feeling the financial bite from this, you could try to become good at getting her to invite you to her place. But thats always a toss up. You could lead with that, and when she says no, you could get the room. I have tried this forever but have never got it dialed.

I dont see a problem with having this be your game. If you can afford this, you could budget this in. Come to the city to have some fun, drop a few hundred dollars on a date and room. Go home scot free after a shower in the room. Hell I live in Manhattan and may consider doing this.

[Vicious]

Quote:

short-term ballers who can splurge on city AirBnB.

Guilty. And it works beautifully, you're essentially selling the dream that many girls once had when they first came to the city.

[Brodiaga]

Excellent thread.

Here is an idea for the summer. Worked for me a couple of times last year.

If you work in Manhattan and live out in the boroughs/Jersey, invite a girl to meet up at a park close to work. If she works in a different neighborhood, just meet somewhere in between, like the walk the highline together or whatever. Set up this date right after work during the week when you have nothing else to do.

The purpose of this date is not to get laid, but just to talk to her for anywhere between 30 minutes to an hour and see if you like each other. You can grab a coffee or a quick beer nearby, but basically there is no need to spend anything at all on this date. There is no need to escalate too much, either, but try to kiss her at the end and see the reaction.

During this date, talk up the place where you live and your neighborhood. Not too much, but basically drop bait. A lot of these girls live with their parents or dirty roommates in shitty small apartments, so if your place is bigger that's a plus too. She might want to visit you just to get out of her little cage where she lives. Also talk about food and drinks and mention if you're good at cooking specific dishes or making cocktails. You know, the usual bait dropping, but without the intention to invite her over on the same night.

After that date, text her in a couple of days and suggest meeting up at your neighborhood during the weekend or on Friday. Based on the bait you dropped before, suggest visiting this new cool bar that serves mean mohitos or whatever. Or even making that cool dish for her so that she can come over straight to your place. Not all of them will come over, but those who do are likely to bang or at least make out with you.

[Travesty]

(07-16-2014 05:15 PM)Dantes Wrote:  

When I used to live in Manhattan, I would laugh when a friend who was coming to visit asked for a hotel suggestion. I had no clue and most people who live in Manhattan never see the inside of a hotel room. I have found that the prospect of going to a cool hotel in Manhattan represents something new and different for these girls. Something in itself that excites them.

Co-sign this as my one SNL Tinder bang in Manhattan I took to my hotel room and she ranted and raved that:

1) It was all to myself.

2) It was bigger than most people's 1 BR apartments.

Still with this in mind, even with my little experience in Manhattan if you put a player lifestyle high on your list you simply should just live on the island. These workarounds are just so much effort.

Let's put it this way my gut screams at me I'd rather live in a Centrally Located Apartment in a cheaper city, than out in the boroughs of NYC. I think it is more time efficient all the way around meaning of course you only would work somewhere Centrally Located as well.

[Clint Barton]

My game has fallen off in the last year yet the quality/quantity has gone up. Logistics are THAT powerful here.

That said, I salute those who can make it work even if living in the outer boros or outside of NYC. As Dantes noted, this can only make your game tighter.

One piece of advice for those who want to live in Manhattan is to get a 2br and Airbnb the extra room. There are 2br apts as low as $2300 in the LES/Chinatown area. At $100-125 a night you can cut your rent in half by renting out that extra room 10 nights a month. When you are on vacation, that 2br apt fetches $250-300 a night.

[Brodiaga]

(01-09-2015 08:13 PM)Clint Barton Wrote:  

One piece of advice for those who want to live in Manhattan is to get a 2br and Airbnb the extra room. There are 2br apts as low as $2300 in the LES/Chinatown area. At $100-125 a night you can cut your rent in half by renting out that extra room 10 nights a month. When you are on vacation, that 2br apt fetches $250-300 a night.

How do you find out before renting an apartment if the landlord is ok with you renting it out on airbnb? Is the best way to ask the landlord in advance or just do it quietly assuming the landlord is ok with it?

[Dantes]

(01-09-2015 07:36 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

Excellent thread.

Here is an idea for the summer. Worked for me a couple of times last year.

If you work in Manhattan and live out in the boroughs/Jersey, invite a girl to meet up at a park close to work. If she works in a different neighborhood, just meet somewhere in between, like the walk the highline together or whatever. Set up this date right after work during the week when you have nothing else to do.

The purpose of this date is not to get laid, but just to talk to her for anywhere between 30 minutes to an hour and see if you like each other. You can grab a coffee or a quick beer nearby, but basically there is no need to spend anything at all on this date. There is no need to escalate too much, either, but try to kiss her at the end and see the reaction.

During this date, talk up the place where you live and your neighborhood. Not too much, but basically drop bait. A lot of these girls live with their parents or dirty roommates in shitty small apartments, so if your place is bigger that's a plus too. She might want to visit you just to get out of her little cage where she lives. Also talk about food and drinks and mention if you're good at cooking specific dishes or making cocktails. You know, the usual bait dropping, but without the intention to invite her over on the same night.

After that date, text her in a couple of days and suggest meeting up at your neighborhood during the weekend or on Friday. Based on the bait you dropped before, suggest visiting this new cool bar that serves mean mohitos or whatever. Or even making that cool dish for her so that she can come over straight to your place. Not all of them will come over, but those who do are likely to bang or at least make out with you.

A few points as I posted this originally awhile ago. I used to live in Manhattan and it was exponentially easier for me to get laid. I need to put in a lot of energy to game in Manhattan and live in the suburbs. I would prefer to live in Manhattan but my job makes it difficult.

Brodiaga,

Related to your post, it will be difficult. I have been in this situation for the past few years and during the height of my Game. Girls simply do not want to leave the island even if you have a palace. They have to be very invested in you to do so. Girls will rather hang out in Manhattan and go back to their shitty little apartment with annoying roommates. My close rate must be close to 100 percent on girls who do visit me. This demonstrates their level of interest if they come to visit me.

People become Manhattan centric and come to view leaving the island as a big hassle. Even going from uptown to downtown seems far when you have lived there awhile.If you are working in Manhattan, make every attempt to live there. It will be pleasurable with girls an overall better experience.

Hotels Tonight has become my best friend. I tell girls I stay in NYC a night or two per week because I have an office there, which is true. I have made my choice to be close to work, so I need to make the best of it. Honestly, the energy I put into overcoming these bad logistics wears on me. But I discovered that having a long commute to work 5-6 days per week is even more tiresome. I made my choice so these are the steps I go through to make it work.

[Clint Barton]

Find a spot with no doormen. Even better find one with no cameras on front door or lobby. You can always say that you just having friends from out of town. Its easy to control the situation since you live there.

Don't tell the landlord. Keep things quiet and you all good.

[Dantes]

(01-09-2015 08:13 PM)Clint Barton Wrote:  

I lived in the Upper West Side(90th street) for 4 years. Nice 2br apt at a GREAT price. Big space to myself, central park a few blocks away. Even with these Manhattan logistics, getting a girl back there from east village or lower east side was a chore. I had to date and rarely got the SNLs.

I moved to the lower east side in late 2013. in 2014 I tripled the # of bangs I had in 2013. Hotel Chantelle is a 3 minute walk away. Pianos is less than 10 minutes from my pad. I've got great logistics now.

My game has fallen off in the last year yet the quality/quantity has gone up. Logistics are THAT powerful here.

That said, I salute those who can make it work even if living in the outer boros or outside of NYC. As Dantes noted, this can only make your game tighter.

One piece of advice for those who want to live in Manhattan is to get a 2br and Airbnb the extra room. There are 2br apts as low as $2300 in the LES/Chinatown area. At $100-125 a night you can cut your rent in half by renting out that extra room 10 nights a month. When you are on vacation, that 2br apt fetches $250-300 a night.

Clint,

Good advice here. All things being equal in my life, I would take the logistics. It is just not a good option for me now. When I travel and have tight logistics, everything seems easier. I also lived on the Upper west. Back in the old days, the upper west along with the upper east was the place to live. Now everyone wants to be downtown.

[warder]

I think if you rent a room while you're still in the apartment, it's technically legal, but your landlord could still evict you. Renting out the whole apartment while you travel is illegal, but either way it's very difficult to get caught if you don't have a live in landlord, super, or doorman.

I used to rent my place out when I traveled, and it's a great way to fund nice vacations. But I got fucked a bit on taxes which I didn't think I'd have to pay. Made like $6K in 2013 and had to pay about $2K in taxes. My accountant said as long as you rent out less than 15 days your exempt though. So keep that in mind.

AirBnB sends you a 1099, so you pretty much have to pay taxes on it since they report it to the Gov.

Just thought I'd toss that experience out there.

Back to the thread topic, yeah logistics are so important. I've lived in a 1 bedroom in the East Village for 5 years. About two blocks from Blind Barber where I've done a ton of damage.

[Travesty]

(01-09-2015 08:13 PM)Clint Barton Wrote:  

My game has fallen off in the last year yet the quality/quantity has gone up. Logistics are THAT powerful here.

Completely cosign again and a NYC newbie.

Every online girl I talked to made it seem like the UWS was forever away.

You mine gold where it is.

[Onto]

(01-10-2015 02:58 PM)warder Wrote:  

I think if you rent a room while you're still in the apartment, it's technically legal, but your landlord could still evict you. Renting out the whole apartment while you travel is illegal, but either way it's very difficult to get caught if you don't have a live in landlord, super, or doorman.

I used to rent my place out when I traveled, and it's a great way to fund nice vacations. But I got fucked a bit on taxes which I didn't think I'd have to pay. Made like $6K in 2013 and had to pay about $2K in taxes. My accountant said as long as you rent out less than 15 days your exempt though. So keep that in mind.

AirBnB sends you a 1099, so you pretty much have to pay taxes on it since they report it to the Gov.

Just thought I'd toss that experience out there.

Back to the thread topic, yeah logistics are so important. I've lived in a 1 bedroom in the East Village for 5 years. About two blocks from Blind Barber where I've done a ton of damage.

NYS law permits you to have a roommate. The caveat is your lease 99.9% of the time states you must get written permission first from the landlord to sublet to a certain individual.

99.9% of leases forbid the tenant in using their apartment for commercial purposes/financial gain. There are often provisions stating the landlord is entitled to a percentage of such income, not to mention their right to evict you.

Even if you "own" your place, NYS law states that property owners cannot rent out their property for less than 30 days at a time. That's the law. Is it enforced? Depends on your neighbors.

Important: About 10 years ago when I was living on the UES my Super was telling me about having to kick one of his daughter's friends out of their apt before 2 weeks went by. His daughter, a sexy Goth girl by the way, was just helping out her friend and he allowed it but had to eventually force her out because he said NYC law states if a person stays more than 2 weeks in your apartment they gain certain "rights" to your apt to stay longer.

Not sure what those rights are and all the rest, but it's something to keep in mind.

Not having a doorman or super is helpful in avoiding prying eyes, but your neighbors have eyes too.

[Clint Barton]

Yeah best to get a small walk-up on a low floor. Then you would only have one neighbor per floor.

Taxes are a bitch but once you get into the flow, you wind up using airbnb less and booking for cash to your network, former airbnb guests, or roosh crew.

Blind barber a cool spot. Gets crowded but good talent and a great place to go if you have nice logistics. The Wayland and a few bars on Ave C. are close by too.

Llazy during the cold winter that I won't go more than a 10 min walk from my crib.

(01-10-2015 04:25 PM)Onto Wrote:  

(01-10-2015 02:58 PM)warder Wrote:  

I think if you rent a room while you're still in the apartment, it's technically legal, but your landlord could still evict you. Renting out the whole apartment while you travel is illegal, but either way it's very difficult to get caught if you don't have a live in landlord, super, or doorman.

I used to rent my place out when I traveled, and it's a great way to fund nice vacations. But I got fucked a bit on taxes which I didn't think I'd have to pay. Made like $6K in 2013 and had to pay about $2K in taxes. My accountant said as long as you rent out less than 15 days your exempt though. So keep that in mind.

AirBnB sends you a 1099, so you pretty much have to pay taxes on it since they report it to the Gov.

Just thought I'd toss that experience out there.

Back to the thread topic, yeah logistics are so important. I've lived in a 1 bedroom in the East Village for 5 years. About two blocks from Blind Barber where I've done a ton of damage.

NYS law permits you to have a roommate. The caveat is your lease 99.9% of the time states you must get written permission first from the landlord to sublet to a certain individual.

99.9% of leases forbid the tenant in using their apartment for commercial purposes/financial gain. There are often provisions stating the landlord is entitled to a percentage of such income, not to mention their right to evict you.

Even if you "own" your place, NYS law states that property owners cannot rent out their property for less than 30 days at a time. That's the law. Is it enforced? Depends on your neighbors.

Important: About 10 years ago when I was living on the UES my Super was telling me about having to kick one of his daughter's friends out of their apt before 2 weeks went by. His daughter, a sexy Goth girl by the way, was just helping out her friend and he allowed it but had to eventually force her out because he said NYC law states if a person stays more than 2 weeks in your apartment they gain certain "rights" to your apt to stay longer.

Not sure what those rights are and all the rest, but it's something to keep in mind.

Not having a doorman or super is helpful in avoiding prying eyes, but your neighbors have eyes too.

[Que enspastic]

London is the same. The cost of having ideal logistics is rent that is more than most people's annual salaries before tax.

[Distant Light]

NY Native here, horrible logistics all my life... (commute is 1.5-2 hours, 3-4 hours total)
1. Just go to the chicks place
2. Have public sex,
3. Throw an after party at someone else's place that you meet in the night (I used to be known for randomly throwing after parties
4. Pull To Your Place, I've only pulled girls back to my place 3 times and that's only because it was an emergency. (1 girl lost her keys, 1 girl we both blackedout heading to her place)

P.S...If I had good logistics people would probably be at my place EVERY NIGHT. Good logistics is the deciding factor between a guy having sex a few times a week and everyday. When I used to leave with chicks every night the #1 issue was finding a place to hookup. IMO it's worth paying the extra for "good" logistics since it's the hub for people to meetup, pregame, after parties, etc. (As I'm learning though most people aren't really that social and just wanna bang...If that's the kiss I'd say just go to the chicks place)