[speakeasy]

(07-06-2014 03:00 PM)conservative Wrote:  

Think of game as driving, looks as your car model and money as gas. You have money, you can go more. If you have looks, you can get more attention. But if you don't have game, you won't really go anywhere. (and trust me, you'll feel miserable for wasting such resources).

I don't agree with that. A good looking man doesn't need game. Period. Just as long as he doesn't have negative game, i.e. does shit that repels women. If you're a good looking guy, all you really need to be is socially normal and at least somewhat confident and you'll have no problem getting laid. I've met plenty of guys in that situation.

The game industry was basically devised for average looking men to try and punch above their weight class using push/pull tactics, false time constraints, negs, DHVs, magic tricks in some cases, hypnosis in the case of Ross Jeffries and other really technical shit. The industry in recent years though has been moving away from this structured game that was spawned by Mystery Method. And now people are talking about "natural game" which doesn't seem to have any clear definition. "Having game" means knowing how to talk to women in a way that leads to sex rapidly. But I contend that this is a very difficult thing to teach. PUA gurus can outline the fundamentals, but making that actual chemistry spark and a real emotional connection with a girl is something everyone has to figure out on their own time in their own way.

As for game being a necessity for long-term situations, I get what you guys are saying. But to me that's not game, that's just being a man that is sure of himself that dominates over his woman. That's the way all men used to be before feminism. And the way it is now in countries where there is no feminism. I don't see that as "game", I just see it as men being men.

[ComebackKid]

(07-06-2014 06:05 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

Easy answer 7.5+, this is purely on looks not your cloth style, coolness or anything else.

Guys that are a solid 7.5+ in pure looks as a base will get chased after and be allowed beta mistakes often. 8+ and it starts getting ridiculous. Girls starting to act beta and clingy off the bat.

If you think you are a male 7.5+ and never gotten this easy treatment from women you are lying to yourself about how good looking you are in my experience with America. You aren't as good looking as you think hence you need up your game, lift, style etc...

Every guy I know like this has had a GF easily at will that are not dimes but 7+.

Yeah they may need minimal game, but let's put it this way if I was getting those opportunities, my lower level game before finding RVF would easily been enough to nail these girls.

It is a different world for them.

I would struggle to give a rating to a guy. What does male 7 look like? What does male 8 look like?

[Switch]

(07-07-2014 12:34 AM)ComebackKid Wrote:  

I would struggle to give a rating to a guy. What does male 7 look like? What does male 8 look like?

This. I can rate girls down to the .01 but for guys I only know three categories: ugly, normal, and good looking

[UnW]

Whatever it is, It'll be pretty low quality. and nobody likes slaying low quality girls if they can and do pull better looking girls.

[Noah]

Game is necessary for all men, however I can speak from personal experience that it's a completely different world if you're a "hot guy". One of my good friends is a 6'3" male model (most girls would probably rate him a 9-10) and it's always a spectacle when I go out with him. I've seen some of the baddest girls in the bar approach him with the "I just had to come over here because I think you're really cute" shit and all he literally has to do is not fuck it up. I've gone out with thousands of dudes and have never seen a guy get that kind of reception from women.

To put it in perspective, he used to be a bartender at a high end restaurant, and it got to the point where he was actually banging girls on dates with other dudes in the bathroom during his shift. The girls would frequently come up to him and say "you're sexy", and he would generally respond with "you want to show me how sexy I am in the bathroom?". Then he'd smash these girls that came to the restaurant with boyfriends, random dudes, etc.

It's stories like that that really make you swallow the red pill, in case you haven't already.

[iknowexactly]

(07-06-2014 03:17 PM)conservative Wrote:  

(07-06-2014 03:09 PM)Kxty33 Wrote:  

conservative, thanks for your input, but your post kinda confused me. So are you saying that even though your get attention from girls, you can't seem to get laid? OR are you saying that you get laid plenty, but that you can't seem to KEEP the same girl around for an extended period of time?

In other words, is your primary problem with merely getting the pussy, or with KEEPING the pussy? I couldn't tell from your post.

Both. I think I mentioned that I never got laid to date. In most of the dates I did, women lost interest very quickly and there was no recurring date/talks.

Probably a big blind spot-- you seem distant, some odd mannerism or lack of eye contact or most likely a combination of the above.

some reason they are screening you out besides looks and money.

Could be some surprising but crippling thing like bad breath. Get a close friend or pro therapist to assess why you are coming off in a way you don't want.

[Travesty]

(07-07-2014 12:34 AM)ComebackKid Wrote:  

I would struggle to give a rating to a guy. What does male 7 look like? What does male 8 look like?

7+ Facial symmetry, clear skin, usually a defined jawline. Smile is huge for males this is all girls talk about. So teeth that are straight, white, no overbite etc. Eyes aren't beady and are usually of some warm or deep brown or other unique coloring girls like (green, blue). Girls always talk about eyes and smile.

Most likely 5'9"+. I know famous actors and singers get away with being short, but in real life I think it would be hard to be a 7+ on looks ALONE if you are 5'6" in America even if you were jacked.

Body really just has to be not fat or not skinny fat. Thin, fit, or built/ripped. Of course some guys with attractive faces can get away with either the big guy "teddy bear" or "lumberjack" look and some also can get away with a small beer belly. That would be more rare imo.

8+ is just a fucking good looking guy + fit, probably the biggest thing is eyes and smile girls go weak for + wide shoulders and thin waist. Doesn't have to be huge or ripped just in good shape of some kind.

These guys get approached or at the very least have girls crowding next to them and giving them the eyes. This attention comes even when dressed mediocre and with mediocre posture. These guys look good no matter what they are doing. If you have had one as a friend you notice their magnetism from girls.

Legit 8's though are rare for either sex. Only in high end social circle ($) do they seem more common.

I think guys have a hard time making these distinguishing traits because most guys dates down in America. Lots of male 8's with girl 7's because the 7's are easy to handle since they are lower. I also think there are more female 7's and 8's based on pure looks due to girls using make up well, plastic surgery etc (they move up on facial looks more easily than a guy) . Guys don't put as much effort into their looks and can't hide facial flaws like girls can. Therefore male 8's are generally even more rare than female 8's.

I have seen female 8's turn into 6.5's with their make up all off in harsh daylight. Make up and hair done my boner responds vigorously. Guys don't get this option. In fact many girls like the bed-hair, scruffy, not done up look even more for guys because it screams DGAF.

[Jazzman92]

One thing to take into consideration is that 'hotness' and game are positively correlated. People have a tendency to gravitate towards attractive individuals. Therefore an 8.5+/10 guy would always have had positive attention given to him his whole life. Generally speaking a good looking guy will also be popular and have a strong social circle, therefore he will develop enough game to get by.

[blacknwhitespade]

(07-07-2014 09:05 PM)Jazzman92 Wrote:  

One thing to take into consideration is that 'hotness' and game are positively correlated. People have a tendency to gravitate towards attractive individuals. Therefore an 8.5+/10 guy would always have had positive attention given to him his whole life. Generally speaking a good looking guy will also be popular and have a strong social circle, therefore he will develop enough game to get by.

Truth. Looks, money and game. All three of these things are interrelated and play off of each other. Good looking guys have a bit of natural social proof that can take them further in life, socially and professionally. Guys with money can afford the clothes/grooming/surgery to make themselves look better. Guys with game can learn to use those social skills to land lucrative career opportunities and make money.

Looks-wise, you have a big head start if you are a 7+ in looks. My brother is 6'5" and handsome. He's aged a tad in the past few years, but in his physical prime, he had women in bars, at parties, in the check-out line at the shopping mall, all eye-fucking him, flirting with him, bluntly asking him out... It was almost comical. Guys, do what you've got to do to make yourselves look good. Having good looks is game in and of itself, especially to the younger ladies.

[RockHard]

Had a friend in college who was model quality handsome. First time I met him, my first thought was "this guy should be on the cover of GQ". He got opened all the time, to the point he said once "I hate going out, women won't leave me alone". I remember standing outside a bar and he mentioned to me how he wished he had a cigarette, this girl passing by went and offered him one. The guy got some great pussy, but he still had to escalate & engage. The girls would make it easy for him, but he still had to pick up on the signals. This is the dynamic with women flirting - they'll usually do it subtly. They'll make eyes, try to start a conversation, but it's up to the guy to escalate. At the time I'd miss all the subtle shit but he was used to it and he'd say "that girl's flirting with me". I wouldn't believe him but he'd point out what she was doing, and now, years later it makes sense.

On the other hand, when I got out of college I went to work for a large company and took over a project from a guy who it turned out was a legendary player. He'd fucked a ton of women at this company. One woman at work told me this guy could have any woman he wanted. I had never actually met him, he'd left the company about 6 months earlier, but my mental image is that he's something like my college buddy, really good looking dude. A couple years go by, I've switched jobs and one day they tell me they hired a new manager - it turns out that it was this same dude. He's now married to a smoking hot Texas blonde (if you've been to Dallas, you know exactly the type), but the funny thing was how unremarkable he looked. Polo shirts, khakis, balding, your typical office geek. I can't tell you much about his game, I never got to know him that well - these days I'd offer to buy him a drink and pick his brain. I don't know why I didn't do that at the time.

The first guy is the best looking guy I've personally known. The first guy is a guy who everyone looked at and thought "he gets laid all the time", and the reality was he did have some great pussy. The 2nd guy was very average and the one thing everyone *said* about him was that he got laid all the time. That's the difference.

Stuff like that really opened my eyes. When girls say "looks don't matter", that's bullshit. They do. What they're actually saying is "game matters", because they're admitting they'll sleep with a not great looking guy if he's charming, has personality, has a certain edge, whatever. Moreover, they'll follow a guy's lead. That's the critical part. If you want an LTR with a girl, she needs to follow your lead or she'll put your balls in her purse.

[Truth Teller]

(07-06-2014 11:34 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

"Paul Janka is arguably the best looking guy in all of the seduction community."

Okay, maybe a bid of an overstatement, but honestly, I can't think of too many very good looking men who teach.

[Cobra]

I really have a tough time believing that as a good looking guy, you don't need game at all to get laid. Are girls going to take your dick and put it in their vagina? You don't need game at all to accomplish that?

Edit: Or is it that these guys unconsciously use game and don't know it?

[Blackwell]

Cobra is on the money.

Just because somebody isn't well versed in the specific principles or details of game doesn't meant that they don't use it. I know a few guys, good looking guys, who have always done well with women. Their success is not strictly applicable to their looks, they subconsciously follow a lot of the principles we preach. I guess you call them 'naturals' they are the guys that didn't have to put in the work others to do to be successful. However I believe that these guys just have a higher 'floor' so to speak and that with a commitment to bettering their game they could improve their results also.

[reaper23]

unless you have some deformity that can't be overcome, i think most all guys can get themselves into a position of needing less tactical game once their lifestyle game is secure. in shape, good well fitting clothes, posture, confidence, secure professional life, good logistics...these things actually contribute to a man's rating. if you nail all of those you can be a 7 no matter what and with that, women will be receptive.