[Nomad77]

Last night I sent a girl I am seeing a message I knew I shouldn't have. Even at the moment of clicking the Send button I knew I would be punished for it but I did it anyway. Of course now, I will have to take some corrective action to fix the minor damage it caused. The funny thing is, I keep doing this. My problem is not knowing Game. My problem is one of discipline. Having the discipline to do or don't do what I know. Discipline and Game are two very different things. One is a body of knowledge the other the personal will to execute on that knowledge in a timely and consistent manner.

And this applies to all areas of life. I have lost more money in the stock market because of my lack of discipline. My inability to simply wait for something I was sure would eventually happen. And so it is with women. I may know exactly what I need to do to get a girl yet at some random point I will sabotage myself by doing some stupid shit. Usually it's emotionally driven. But the really interesting thing is that before, while, and after I do it I am fully aware that I am making a mistake - that I am doing something wrong. Why do I do it then? To be brutally honest, I do not really know. Luckily for me, most of the time, I am able to compensate for and correct the damage.

It is not enough to know Game or any other body of knowledge. To really put it to most effective use also requires the discipline to execute on it consistently. Most of the time, the woman is not my worst enemy, I am. To achieve anything of greatness in life requires great discipline and this has always been my greatest weakness.

[CaptainCrazy]

You are speaking of sabotaging yourself being driven by emotions (which probably get triggered by some external stimuli). This is essentially how human machine works. The way you probably want it to work is for will to come from the inside and create the right emotions that drive you to do what you want.

There are different ways of dealing with it ranging from NLP for quick fixes to spiritual ways for life long greatness.

Your post, was it question or statement?

[Nomad77]

Both. It was a question on how to not to do this and a statement about the importance of discipline.

[simondice]

This resonates a lot with me this year, where I have fucked up EASY lays for not being disciplined, where I'm making a mistake, fully aware that I'm doing it, and keep doing it anyway. I noticed that it was impatience and sometimes just doing it because the opportunity was presenting itself, not because I was fully interested.your subconscious is a very powerful thing.

[Nomad77]

Yes, I am also impatience a lot of the time and try to force things sort of...

[CaptainCrazy]

(07-04-2014 10:40 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Both. It was a question on how to not to do this and a statement about the importance of discipline.

Let me see if I understands you correctly.

What happens is, you know what needs or need not to be done in a particular situation (be it the Game or stock market) but you do "stupid shit" instead. In my opinion, unconsciously, as consciously you know what needs or need not to be done. Correct?

What you want is to stop doing "stupid shit" and get discipline. Correct?

Just so you now, last time I tried to help someone with something similar on a public forum it didn't went well and I swore not to do it again as it is very unthankful business and, in my experience, people who say they want to change don't really want to change at all. They are simply in love with their problems so much that they won't let go of them as it's easy to blame shit that happens on their predicament.

I am ready to give it the one last go but I'll have to renounce my vow, which in your words will be forgetting the "discipline" and doing "stupid shit".

So, do you really want to get discipline, stop self-sabotage and stop doing "stupid shit"?

I am happy to do it publicly if you're really up for it?

BTW, I don't know you, you don't know me so we are in the same boat and the fact you posted it on public forum probably means you aren't going to a professional anyways.

So, what do you say?

[Nomad77]

I don't think I am only want that does it. I think a lot of men do this so I believe it would be of benefit to a lot of guys. So please continue. Thank you.

[conservative]

This is because the human brain thinks on the short-term. This is why society/civilization creates a path for people (school->college->job...) otherwise most people will never move on on their lives.

When I finish sex, my brain doesn't think about the future (that i'll need sex in the future) and so I'm very likely to do stupid things that might break the relation with the current lay.

Using your brain and controlling your emotions/subconsious is not an easy thing and since I'm not an expert and still straggling I'll leave it to other members to give advice.

[CaptainCrazy]

(07-04-2014 11:57 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

I don't think I am only want that does it. I think a lot of men do this so I believe it would be of benefit to a lot of guys. So please continue. Thank you.

Cool. I just need to know if I understand you correctly.

What happens is, you know what needs or need not to be done in a particular situation (be it the Game or stock market) but you do "stupid shit" instead. Is it correct?

What you want is to stop doing "stupid shit" and get discipline. Is it correct?

Third question is, how is that a problem for you? Please give as much details and examples as possible.

Fourth question is, how did you fail to overcome the problem in the past?

And fifths is, when do you not experience the problem? Any example of when you are actually very disciplined and not do stupid shit.

Some questions might sound a bit silly but they are really important. Please note, it's way harder to do over the forum where I don't see you and I don't receive any non-verbal feedback so please give as much details as possible.

[CaptainCrazy]

(07-05-2014 12:31 AM)conservative Wrote:  

Using your brain and controlling your emotions/subconsious is not an easy thing and since I'm not an expert and still straggling I'll leave it to other members to give advice.

First step in controlling your emotions is very simple. You need to learn to relax you body. Let go of tensions. Do a massage, stretch, meditate if it's your thing, relax as much as possible.

However simple in might look, it's important first step. I've seen people having breakthroughs just by relaxing enough. Mind and body are connected and stuck emotions manifest themselves as tensions in the body. By relaxing enough you might release some old emotions.

You cannot control the emotion if you are tense as they will not flow through your body freely and as result will "control" you.

[Nomad77]

What happens is, you know what needs or need not to be done in a particular situation (be it the Game or stock market) but you do "stupid shit" instead. Is it correct?

- Stupid shit is maybe a bit harsh. I do things that I know are not the best choices that will cause some damage in my life.

What you want is to stop doing "stupid shit" and get discipline. Is it correct?

- Maybe it's an impulse control problem. But yes.

Third question is, how is that a problem for you? Please give as much details and examples as possible.

- Well, when I do these impulsive things they can create a range of problems. With girls it usually means dropping your frame and then they girl will end feeling that you are weak and that she can now disrespect you. With the stock market it means losing money.

Fourth question is, how did you fail to overcome the problem in the past?

- By continuing to do it.

And fifths is, when do you not experience the problem? Any example of when you are actually very disciplined and not do stupid shit.

- Sure, I am usually fairly disciplined 98% of the time. I didn't make any mistakes with that girl for two weeks until last night for example. Now, I am going to have to punish her but it was really my fault to begin with.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Discipline is a continued process I found.

Trading and the stock market requires an inordinate amount of discipline, work and creating a strategy that you are comfortable with over the long run. Afterwards the hard part is to be in total control of your emotions, since your emotions are your enemy at trading - best is to be like a disciplined bot using only mental faculties and intuition.

In a way with women you have to be similar until she is highly invested in you and you can get away with a lot of shit and plenty of Betatude, since your normal frame is a dominant Alpha-state-of-mind. Especially with a high-level woman one tiny error can sink the boat in the very beginning.

My strategy for attaining strong mental discipline: contemplation, meditation and in the past I did mental exercises (concentration - the unknown contrary practice to meditation). Those are the techniques that mankind has been using for millenia. The Samurai did not adopt Zen Buddhism out of pure spirituality - they realized that the meditative practices made them better warriors even in the most demanding of circumstances.

[CaptainCrazy]

(07-05-2014 01:10 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

What happens is, you know what needs or need not to be done in a particular situation (be it the Game or stock market) but you do "stupid shit" instead. Is it correct?

- Stupid shit is maybe a bit harsh. I do things that I know are not the best choices that will cause some damage in my life.

What you want is to stop doing "stupid shit" and get discipline. Is it correct?

- Maybe it's an impulse control problem. But yes.

Third question is, how is that a problem for you? Please give as much details and examples as possible.

- Well, when I do these impulsive things they can create a range of problems. With girls it usually means dropping your frame and then they girl will end feeling that you are weak and that she can now disrespect you. With the stock market it means losing money.

Fourth question is, how did you fail to overcome the problem in the past?

- By continuing to do it.

And fifths is, when do you not experience the problem? Any example of when you are actually very disciplined and not do stupid shit.

- Sure, I am usually fairly disciplined 98% of the time. I didn't make any mistakes with that girl for two weeks until last night for example. Now, I am going to have to punish her but it was really my fault to begin with.

OK, now are are getting somewhere. So, you are disciplined 98% of the time but they 2% of the time you drop the ball, right? Let's take this last girl as an example (and please notice, I believe the problem is probably not related to the Game). What was different when everything was OK and when you dropped the ball?

What I am trying to do here is, I am trying to unpack your strategy for doing the impulsive behaviour vs behavious you are happy with.

I am still trying to explore the surface, BTW. If you knew how typical is 98% everything is fine and then at the last step to success - full stop, break pedal to the floor. It's not even funny.

[Nomad77]

I was thinking about a lot of different things and I got emotional, not about her, but in general about the other stuff I was thinking about.

[Dr.Edd]

Learning game requires a large amount of discipline in itself. From tracking your progress to applying new strategies and everything in between, discipline is needed. Also improving yourself through reading, learning new hobbies and mastering them requires discipline as well. That may be a mental and physical type of discipline. Emotional discipline is harder to control. People are impulsive and tend to act on their emotions. Given a task, I will do all that I can to complete it as best I can (physical and mental discipline) but can be distracted or disturbed (emotional discipline). The more you build on mental and physical discipline, the more it can carry over to emotional discipline.

[Nomad77]

You are correct, emotional discipline is the hardest one of all.

[CaptainCrazy]

(07-05-2014 10:11 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

I was thinking about a lot of different things and I got emotional, not about her, but in general about the other stuff I was thinking about.

I need specific details. What things specifically? What other stuff specifically?

I can throw a lot of generic advice here but I doubt it will help you.

You see, in my opinion, judging by what you wrote, you run a behaviour you don't like and you are completely unconscious of the process. Different things, other stuff, etc. to me mean you simple unaware what actually happened in your mind. That's perfectly fine but to change this, someone got to become aware of the process. If we were in the same, I could've unpack the process by nonverbal communication. In your case it needs to be you.

So, it seems to me that you were thinking about something specific when it triggered the emotional response. What triggered this though that triggered the emotional response? Was it something you saw? Something you've heard or said to yourself in your mind? Or some feeling?

[Nomad77]

Well, to be honest. I can't remember exactly. On any given night I am thinking about a bunch of different things. What specifically I was thinking about at that moment I can't remember. She was one of things but not the only one.

[Mai Pei]

@Captaincrazy

What you're saying is very interesting.

So certain things can trigger unwanted behavior? Say things you're unaware of?

Care to explain more?

I have had the same problem as well.

[BadWolf]

Heh, I thought this was a thread about using your pimp hand vs game.

[Nomad77]

We are not allowed to beat women here like you can in China

[BlurredSevens]

I feel this way a lot in my life: where, I know I am making a mistake, but I do it anyway. Like, right now: I decided this morning that if I did 2 hours of work today (Sunday) then it would give me a head start on the work week. But here I am on RVF instead.

It creates a constant frustration, and it does feel like I'm sabotaging myself. But I always wonder if the part that is doing the sabotaging knows something that the rest of my brain does not. Perhaps it isn't sabotaging me, but saving me? Perhaps there is something I should be seeing, but I'm not?

[CaptainCrazy]

(07-05-2014 07:29 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Well, to be honest. I can't remember exactly. On any given night I am thinking about a bunch of different things. What specifically I was thinking about at that moment I can't remember. She was one of things but not the only one.

When this is a problem. You run an unconscious program and you unaware how it operates.

I could've pulled it out of you but we are on the different sides of the globe so you'll need to do it yourself.

Sidenote: for those who are interested, I am using an NLP model of strategies here.

This model is based on a premise that your brain process the information in way of making pictures in your mind or seeing something outside (visual), hearing sounds outside and inside your mind (auditory), feelings and sensations in the body (kinesthetic - for those of you who don't know, "kino" term came to the Game initially from NLP), saying things to yourself (internal dialog) and smells and tastes.

Smells and tastes are usually ignored in the model of strategies as they are way weaker triggers that the first four.

Strategy usually consist of four steps. Each step is either visual stimuli or auditory or kinesthetic or internal dialog.

First step is a trigger. Second is a the reaction to the trigger. Third is a test for whether the reaction is appropriate and the last is an exit from the program.

For example, consider this description. I see the girl and she has small boobs just the way I like it and she's asian. I fell butterflies in my chest but I say to my self, "fuck it, I want her" then I feel certainty and go and approach.

What we have here is V-K-Ad-K strategy. Visual, kinesthetic, internal dialog and kinesthetic again.

This strategy is functional as I approach the girl in the end. However the strategy can be disfunctional (like in your case) when the end result is unwanted.

The solution is to replace the strategy. But for this I need to know how you do it.

So you need to become aware of the steps you go through that end up in the unwanted result. That's why I was asking for specific details of what happened in the moment.

I know I am asking a lot and can you just try next time it happens to retrace the steps?

This is not easy as if you were totally aware of everything you do you'd be an enlightened Buddha and I'll be first in a row to become your disciple. However, this is just one little behaviour patterns I ask you to investigate.

[CaptainCrazy]

(07-05-2014 10:36 PM)Mai Pei Wrote:  

@Captaincrazy

What you're saying is very interesting.

So certain things can trigger unwanted behavior? Say things you're unaware of?

Care to explain more?

I have had the same problem as well.

Read my previous post. I think it explains it. Ask me again if it doesn't.

Now, the behaviour and motivation are interesting topics. On a surface, strategies are the programs that determine how you do things. You have strategy for any behavour, including the unwanted one.

However, there are deeper levels of psyche that determine the behavious and motivation, like your believes, your values and their hierarchy, meta-programs (the BIOS of the human PC, fortunately rewritable one) and, on the deepest level, "prime concerns".

PS. Please note, all I say is pseudo-science that doesn't work in the same way as Game as a pseudo-science of manipulation of women doesn't work too. I am nobody and you shouldn't listen to me and never study NLP as it sucks monkey balls and Ross Jeffries is gay. Amen.

[CaptainCrazy]

(07-06-2014 01:18 PM)BlurredSevens Wrote:  

I feel this way a lot in my life: where, I know I am making a mistake, but I do it anyway. Like, right now: I decided this morning that if I did 2 hours of work today (Sunday) then it would give me a head start on the work week. But here I am on RVF instead.

It creates a constant frustration, and it does feel like I'm sabotaging myself. But I always wonder if the part that is doing the sabotaging knows something that the rest of my brain does not. Perhaps it isn't sabotaging me, but saving me? Perhaps there is something I should be seeing, but I'm not?

I have to comment on this one. Please take with a grain of salt. I am not a saint and I've had and still have some self-sabotaging behaviours myself. Anyways...

Here is what usually happens on public forums when someone has a "problem" and they post about it.

It starts to get other people around that have the similar "problem".

They start to relate to each other and it feels good because you finally found someone who understands how you feel.

They start to ramble about the "problem" and how they have it.

It goes round in circles.

The reason is, "problem" is not important. The solution is.

Banding together and relating around the common "problem" doesn't solve it. In pathological cases this is how victim mentality gets born. Just have a look (actually go and visit) any so-called "support groups" where members sit in the circle and pity each other.