[Fortis]

I couldn't find a thread on this, but I was curious what you guys think about this idea?

This comes up tome because a girl I was talking to once lamented that most guys are douches and that they need to read theartofmanliness.com. I laughed at her and told her that I think that site has the right idea but there are other sites out there that have information that actually matches what is going on with men today such as Roosh, D&P and goodlookingloser. Obviously, the girl checked out these sites and said something to the effect of "wow, all these guys are douches and these sites are symptomatic of the decline of men."

NOw, when she said all of that, I was a bit surprised by her phrasing, especially "the decline" bit. It almost sounded like she was red pill without even knowing it. Obviously, she can't exactly take the red pill, but I was so struck by how lucid she was. The red pill is a symptom of fucked up relations, so she is right, but men don't need to go all blue pill like theartofmanliness.com

Anyone else ever encounter women who seek to understand masculinity but can't quite grasp it?

IT was a really strange experience and I wasn't sure how to express this to you guys.

Thanks,

Fortis

[la_mode]

Exposing anyone to the red pill usually doesn't go over too well. With that said, self-improvement "red pill" won't be nearly as controversial as Heartiste.

[Fortis]

Haha, yeah. If I showed a woman he artiste she might call down the sister of screaming harpies and go sparagmos all up on my ass. No thanks. I just found it funny that she was so red pill but didn't quite now she was.

[Ziltoid]

An utterly fruitless endeavor; will get you labeled as misogynistic or creepy.
Even if a girl gives you vibes or says things that make you think she's red pill or traditional minded, don't bother even getting into the topic.
Actions speak louder than words, especially to women.

[Fortis]

I'm not trying to game this one, she literally is someone I met in passing, but you do bring up a great point: what women say and what they do are two separate things. She probably talks this redpill game, but would get railed out if a masculine dude came at her.

[Kabal]

Would you also go around telling children Santa Claus isn't real?

[Fortis]

My mom told me santa wasn't real when I was 5, so yeah.

ha, but I get your point.

[The Reactionary Tree]

Good luck. It is a waste of time. Either a girl will figure out that being feminine is the way to be or they'll be she-beasts.

Heck, it's equally as hard to get my male friends to accept the red pill. When I suggest they check out some blogs like Chateau Heartiste or tell them to read books like The Way of Men, Bang, or The Rational Male, they just laugh at it calling it the "He-man woman hating" club like from Married with Children. Then they are upset they cant find a woman or they're totally whipped by their wives... it's pathetic.

My friends think I am some right-wing lunatic. Every once in a while, well after I go on one of my red pill rants, one of my friends will come up to me and tell me that I was right all along. It's the small things in life I suppose lol.

[polymath]

Personally, I think the whole idea of the "red pill" is a little strange, and I wouldn't even talk about it with other men outside of the forum. I recognize that plenty of non-strange guys use the term but this is just me stating my own perspective.

It's good to have a forum like RVF where men can talk about women, travel, life, the challenges they face and the mindsets that help them to succeed.

It's absurd to think there is something secretive, new, or magical about knowing how to handle women without getting used or disappointed. Men of all shapes and sizes have been having sex with no strings attached since the dawn of humankind.

This is why I try to stay away from the term "red pill." I like the idea of a manosphere because it's like a cigar room for the information age, where boys can chat reasonably without some harpy going batshit insane with interruptions and deliberate misinterpretations. However, there is no ideological magic bullet to be found here. There is only good advice and bad advice, insights and falsehoods, and you have to piece together your own narrative that rings true for your own life. No colored pills can do that for you.

I think it makes more sense to talk to women about things that will be mutually interesting, instead of trying to show off blogs and forums that will be controversial to a lot of girls because of ideas that threaten their self-image as enlightened and thoughtful human beings, even if you consider those ideas to be insightful.

[El Chinito loco]

The vast majority of North American women are not attuned to what it is really like to be a man. They have no specific frame of reference because most young women these days were raised with absentee fathers or piss weak male role models.

The wiser ones (notice I didn't say smarter) might be able to comprehend what they see behind the curtain but heavy social programming usually kicks in.

There is no actual value in showing them these concepts from a male point of view. It's better to be the guiding force with actions and not words in their lives.

The third option is better though, don't waste time with North American women at all.

[LaserBear]

I've talked red pill with one girl in my life... had no intention of sleeping with her, we bounced relationship talk off each other constantly, and had lunch once a week to discuss who we were sleeping with and playing.
Still, would never open her eyes up to the blogs or god forbid the forum.

No one wants to know the great and powerful Oz is a man behind the curtain, and even if they still like Christmas... its not the same once you know Santa is a lie.
She has no need for knowledge of this chunk of the web.
No girl does.

She couldn't relate to the messages here anyways.
Has no relatable experiences.
I don't go to.... I'm sure there's some female specific forums for self help.
Because I have no need to.

Actually scratch that... stumbled across a forum for girls who are getting, have gotten, or want breast enlargements once (was checking if a pic of boobs glowing with a flashlight under them was real, ends up implants really do).
Bunch of ditsy chicks patting each other on the back for being brave and getting that new BA (breast augmentation).
It was a funny read, but I couldn't relate or care.
It almost seemed fake cause there was this whole culture around it and it all seemed so trivial.
That's the experience of a female when exposed to our media, it seems almost fake because it is so not geared for them.

[WilliamShatnersEgo]

My woman has red pill written all over her but good luck getting her to admit it.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

I have introduced women to the Red Pill with success.

I basically told them the whole story - ROK is a bit too indirect to tell the ropes. I prepared some 20 pages of notes while on a train once. Most women can't stand more than half of it, especially if they recognize themselves as Alpha Widows, Alpha-Fucks-Beta-Bucks-girls, being already high on the decline of the Sexual-Market-Value etc. It is hard to accept that you have been living according to your base impulses while thinking that you were somehow "above" and beyond male "primitive" sexuality.

Actually quite a few women accept the Red PIll - a good site to send any females to is Rollo Tomassi's Rationalmale and somewhat Judgybitch (MRA activist with lots of Red Pill on the site).

But usually it is better to give the women the gist - those too vested in the feminine imperative and feminism will never accept it. They would rather blow their brains out than to acknowledge Red Pill, because otherwise their reaction to their lives might be like this:

Just like this broad realized in drug-induced-clarity how fat she is and how crappy she feels about herself - most women would have to scream the very same way about their life-choices as they are hitting the Wall.

[funkyzeit]

Exposing a woman to harsh truths about things she's been biologically programmed to hide will be received very poorly. She'll feel exposed and various (subjective and irrational) defense mechanisms will be activated.

[bojangles]

I'm finding fortune with women in the FSU who agree with everything about the red pill and enjoy the conversations about it and worry that the men in their countries are becoming pussies because of too much Bieber and american tv. Of course they hate me with a passion when I tell them men age like a fine wine and women like milk but on the whole it's with passion so great.

[Fortis]

(07-01-2014 07:39 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

Of course they hate me with a passion when I tell them men age like a fine wine and women like milk but on the whole it's with passion so great.

That's quite a bomb to drop on a woman. I always feel kinda bad when I meet a girl who's 23 and just throwing herself at every guy that comes (lol) her way. It's like, "you realise you can't keep this up past like 28, right?"

Of course, I don't want to ruin it for all the other guys, so I don't say anything.

@ zelcorpion

Isn't that how people should react to the stupidity of their lives? I'm done a lot of introspection and I know I've made some terrible mistakes and I remember them so that I don't do them again. I suppose we're touching on male/female differences again, so I guess women don't go deeply into their own minds and deal with the fucked up bits? I suppose I can count on one hand the number of women into self-help and self-improvement beyond getting a better job and such.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(07-01-2014 07:53 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

Isn't that how people should react to the stupidity of their lives? I'm done a lot of introspection and I know I've made some terrible mistakes and I remember them so that I don't do them again. I suppose we're touching on male/female differences again, so I guess women don't go deeply into their own minds and deal with the fucked up bits? I suppose I can count on one hand the number of women into self-help and self-improvement beyond getting a better job and such.

Yeah - that should be the standard reaction indeed.

Expecting much self-perception from women is like expecting it from children. It can be at a higher level, but usually it does not rise above a teenager nowadays. I have had cases of female family members, who actually accepted Red Pill wisdom, but when I said that I could also tell her husband/boyfriend, they were hesitant and avoided it. The reason is of course that a man realizing his real worth past 30 might decide to go have some fun with younger women instead of with her. He might be more attractive to her with his increased dominance, but what else would he do being that more dominant? Especially difficult if the guy is already very good looking, financially successful and a greater Beta. What would turning him into an Alpha do? Even Red Pill women tread carefully around that water.

@ bojangles

Nice neg. Of course they don't like it, but they still know it to be true. Of course the feminine imperative even with FSU Red Pill women tries to get away with as much as possible. One girl told me that if we were living in Russia I could have mistresses and she would accept it, because many wealthy Russians are doing it. But living in the West she would not go for it. Her words: "It is ok there, because society is fine with it and it is understandable, since there are so many young, pretty and poor girls there, who also need someone to take care of them."

[Teedub]

(07-01-2014 07:39 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

I'm finding fortune with women in the FSU who agree with everything about the red pill and enjoy the conversations about it and worry that the men in their countries are becoming pussies because of too much Bieber and american tv. Of course they hate me with a passion when I tell them men age like a fine wine and women like milk but on the whole it's with passion so great.

[DJ-Matt]

First rule about the red pill:
We don't talk about the red pill with women.

[TheWastelander]

It's pointless and I don't understand why you'd bother. Game 'em!

[TravelerKai]

When I discuss redpill stuff with my wife (she is Chinese), she thinks all us Americans are crazy. She thinks redpill is just normal life values and stuff like that. Before she met me, she just thought US women were just merely a little spoiled. She could not understand why we have to do all this stuff we are doing. Now that she has seen America for a little bit, she understands why completely now. She always helps me with my writing, blogging, and mentoring in the manosphere because she feels bad for us. And also because she just likes doing anything with me of course.

[The Beast1]

Women lead with words, men lead with action.

Lead them with red pill action. Let them fester in their stupid.

[Kingsley Davis]

Nothing new here that the ancients did'nt already knew and passed down to us but yet still bare repeated. Women are children in adult bodies and due to hypergamy, every last one of them is looking for a master.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(07-01-2014 09:19 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(07-01-2014 07:53 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

Isn't that how people should react to the stupidity of their lives? I'm done a lot of introspection and I know I've made some terrible mistakes and I remember them so that I don't do them again. I suppose we're touching on male/female differences again, so I guess women don't go deeply into their own minds and deal with the fucked up bits? I suppose I can count on one hand the number of women into self-help and self-improvement beyond getting a better job and such.

Yeah - that should be the standard reaction indeed.

Expecting much self-perception from women is like expecting it from children. It can be at a higher level, but usually it does not rise above a teenager nowadays. I have had cases of female family members, who actually accepted Red Pill wisdom, but when I said that I could also tell her husband/boyfriend, they were hesitant and avoided it. The reason is of course that a man realizing his real worth past 30 might decide to go have some fun with younger women instead of with her. He might be more attractive to her with his increased dominance, but what else would he do being that more dominant? Especially difficult if the guy is already very good looking, financially successful and a greater Beta. What would turning him into an Alpha do? Even Red Pill women tread carefully around that water.

@ bojangles

Nice neg. Of course they don't like it, but they still know it to be true. Of course the feminine imperative even with FSU Red Pill women tries to get away with as much as possible. One girl told me that if we were living in Russia I could have mistresses and she would accept it, because many wealthy Russians are doing it. But living in the West she would not go for it. Her words: "It is ok there, because society is fine with it and it is understandable, since there are so many young, pretty and poor girls there, who also need someone to take care of them."

"Expecting much self-perception from women is like expecting it from children."

Exactly. You could research and recite ten Red Pill facts that are footnoted and proven. What will you get in response? "YOU HATE WOMEN!!!"

It really is like dealing with a 4-year-old and it's getting worse with Facebook, Twitter, etc.

But...I'll also say a lot of Blue Pill men are the same way and the second you go off-script from the Blue Pill party line they start screaming "misogynist!" "redneck!" or whatever the fashionable insult of the moment is.

If you want to see this in action, check out the Facebook hashtag #likeagirl and witness the irrationality: https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/likeagirl

[RouteBackwards]

(06-30-2014 10:14 PM)la_mode Wrote:  

Exposing anyone to the red pill usually doesn't go over too well. With that said, self-improvement "red pill" won't be nearly as controversial as Heartiste.

I disagree that it won't go over well. It depends how you frame it.

Many times I've been out to a bar with a girl I want to bang, and I'll point out how some guy is striking out in front of her. Then I'll break down the mechanics behind his strike out and what he could have done to attract her.

If it's said from a stance of intellectualism, then you have the right idea and most women weirdly swoon to your knowledge of sexual dynamics because they start to realize that who they have always found attractive lines up with your knowledge of human sexuality. But, If you say it from a stance of "RED PILL BITCH," and you start to tell her everything she knows is wrong and that you're right, you come off as arrogant and unattractive.