[Chewbacon]

Hey guys,

[edit] I've visited D.C. and have found it pretty (at least the nice area), but I'd like to know more from Roosh and co., since they live there.

1. How are the women? Are they prettier and/or less bitchy compared to the women in Toronto?

[edit]

3. How is the party scene?

4. For those who have been to TO, how would you compare the two cities?

[Luckystar]

(02-21-2011 05:41 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

2. Are there lots of asian girls? I like asian girls. Specifically, I'm gunning for a korean girl (gotta get my flag on that one).

I would guess Toronto has more Asian girls. But, there seemed to be quite a few foreigners working in DC working in diplomatic/government roles for their respective countries. So, I m sure Asian girls will be around in around, possibly in a more authentic form.

3. How is the party scene?

I had a good time in Adams Morgan area and Georgetown. I can't remember any specifics in terms of clubs or bars though. It was a few years ago.

4. For those who have been to TO, how would you compare the two cities?

Since you ve lived in TO, DC will be a good change for you. DC is slower paced, but should be a good place to study and build networks. It's also close enough to NYC that you may eventually get job offers once you are done. Good luck with law school.

[UrbanNerd]

If this question was posed 10-15 years ago, I would say that Toronto women were MUCH nicer and easier. Now, DC and Toronto women are about the same. Maybe Toronto women are a tad nicer....just a tad. Now Toronto women look better.

For the record, I live in the DC area and have visited Toronto over 100 times.

[emh]

I lived in DC for 7 years, 98-04 and 06-08 (never been to Toronto). In my opinion, the women in DC are some of the best looking in the US. Maybe not up to LA or Miami standards, but better than most places. Of course, most people in DC aren't actually from there, they move there for school or a job. And DC has a probably well-deserved reputation as a work first, have fun second type of city.

There are Asian women in DC, though not as many as you'll find on the west coast of the US. And I don't ever remember meeting a Korean, though there are a few Korean restaurants in the DC area.

As for the party scene, in a city the size of DC, I'm sure you can find whatever you're looking for.

[Roosh]

Is Montreal better than Toronto?

[Saladin]

(02-21-2011 09:02 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Is Montreal better than Toronto?

It apparently is. Montreal is supposed to have much better women than Toronto.

Too bad Montreal is so cold in winter, because I would have moved there for uni in a heartbeat.

[mikeymike]

(02-21-2011 09:02 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Is Montreal better than Toronto?

In every conceivable way lol.

[Caramel Communist]

I have visited T-dot on several occasions for work/fun.

Differences
Cost of living in DC will actually be equal if not more than Toronto...yes...it's like that

Industry's in dc are focused on politics, law firms, lobbying firms, defense contractors, technology companies and gov't.....it ain't like t-dot financial/business districts.

Subway system - you will love DC's...it's one of the best..better than Chi and tied with NY...however in the summer the escalators break down and you have to walk 100 flights...

Crime - Tdot violence would make most americans laugh...DC can get ugly especially in the summer. Know the rules...don't be walking by yourself late at night..it's mostly ppl that know each other that are the perps and vic's...just know where your walking

*****************************************
-Women...dc women are very superficial...they r sizing you up to see how you can benefit them and their career....ppl live to work in this city..they all will have law degree's, mba's or some silly phd and they will make sure that's the first thing you know about them. Their gonna be looking at your clothes, car, and all the other dumb shit they use to measure you.....you will be disappointed...Looks wise? I would say even...the large influx of ppl due to the economy and base realignment has helped improve the stock imho.....

-Large asian pop in DC...especially South Koreans..we have a small chinatown as well...but it's laughable being converted over to condo's and new TGIF fridays...check out 8th st NW...

South Koreans - Montgomery County and Nova
Vietnamese - Nova

Party scene is straight...it's not gona be wild like Montreal or Las Vegas...very conservative due to ppl being careerist but you can still have a good time...

(02-21-2011 05:41 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

Hey guys,

I am moving to D.C. soon for law school at GW, either this september or next (depends on whether I defer). Having spent the past 5 years in Toronto, I've grown pretty accustomed to the city and I am in some ways reluctant to move (but this is mostly just inertia). I've visited D.C. and have found it pretty (at least the nice area), but I'd like to know more from Roosh and co., since they live there.

1. How are the women? Are they prettier and/or less bitchy compared to the women in Toronto?

2. Are there lots of asian girls? I like asian girls. Specifically, I'm gunning for a korean girl (gotta get my flag on that one).

3. How is the party scene?

4. For those who have been to TO, how would you compare the two cities?

[Rocco81]

- Tons of Koreans...consider living over in Virginia just 15 miutes from DC and you will be litereally surrounded by Korean and various other Asian chics.

- DC is dangerous in certain parts but you will be fine. Most of the bad areas you don't have any reason to be there. There are a few areas bordering on the hood (like the aforementioned Adams Morgan) which sometimes have muggers and thugs who just walk over there when the bars close and look to rob people or start shit.

- DC is very expensive (I dont know jack about Toronto) but the nicer areas in DC or Arlington accross the bridge can be comparible to NYC and SF give or take a little.

- Party scene is pretty good...lots of places from holes in the wall to big time clubs. Caramel is correct in that its not a Vegas, but DC people def do drink their faces off. I have never drank so much in life, than I have working and living in this area. Its very common to be out on a random Tuesday or Wed and see young professionals crowding in the bars after work. Thursdays are usually when people start the weekend here. I'm not even saying its cool..its kind of pathetic, because people are always working and networking/politicing when they are out, but it def provides ample chances for you to meet and greet on random nights over drinks.

- Chics in general are fairly good looking, but like Caramel said many are cold and bitchy.

[emh]

(02-21-2011 09:38 PM)torontokid Wrote:  

(02-21-2011 09:02 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Is Montreal better than Toronto?

It apparently is. Montreal is supposed to have much better women than Toronto.

Too bad Montreal is so cold in winter, because I would have moved there for uni in a heartbeat.

Yeah, Montreal often makes top 10 lists of cities with the most beautiful women. Never seen Toronto on such a list.

[Fireworks56]

I take it you've never been to Muzik in Toronto? Granted it was only one time but was very happy with the quality.

Done Montreal quite a bit more... Crescent St. to puff a (overpriced) Cuban before heading to an good lounge ... not sure if Yesterday's is still open (was in Jan. 2008) but it was a great spot... good large Irish style bar upstairs to strike up the conversation and dance club downstairs to lock down the deal, and the crowd trended older. Stay to the places 25+ folks frequent... the 18+ drinking age is great... when you're an American 18 year old and think puking the night before was a good night.

[ManAbout]

Unless you are in New York, LA or San Francisco, nowhere in the US will you get the vast range of nationalities that you have in Toronto. From every type of Asian you can imagine, Korean, Chinese, Vietnames, Filipino to Persian to Russian, you will find it in Toronto. Most US cities are a lot more uniform in their ethnic mix. It`s not to say that you don`t have them, it`s just that they are not present in sufficient numbers to make their presence felt.

[beta_plus]

I wish I had seen this thread a while ago:

My two cents on DC vs. Toronto:

DC may be bad, but Toronto is worse.

I went to university in Kingston and spent lots of time in Toronto. All of my friends who came down with me to DC immediately noticed that it was easier to meet women in DC than TO and Ontario in general. In fact, I remember bumping into a friend from Kingston at a dive bar in downtown DC. He had just moved to DC and I wanted to be sure that DC really was a better place to be w/o biasing his opinion, so I was trying not to tell him that DC was a better place to meet chicks. I need not have worried. The fifth thing he said to me was "You know, it's a lot easier to meet women here". Even now when I go up to TO to visit I get consistently colder reactions from women than I do in DC. As well, if a woman's face is important to you, Ontario is not a great place to be.

Game as we know it was invented in Toronto by Mystery and supplemented by Tyler Durden in Kingston and Ottawa. I do not consider that a coincidence. Necessity is the mother of invention, and Canada's impact on game is way out of proportion to its population.

As for Montreal, I'd argue that you need to know game very well to have success there. Frankly, the women come across as only marginally more open to approaches than in Toronto, and it has nothing to do with people speaking French (any girl under 40 is completely bilingual and the separatist stuff only happens to the east). It's just that in Montreal, there are no fat chicks. Literally. Even most Western European cities now have some. It's amazing to see how attractive some types of women become when they are slender enough to have a proper hour glass figure. If you know what you're doing, the prize of winning in Montreal is definitely worth it, but it's not a place that I would start out learning game if you don't feel very good about yourself on this subject.

[Chewbacon]

this definitely makes me feel better.

[AVisitor]

I agree with beta_plus.

Toronto and Montreal are considerably harder than DC, in my experience. Canadian chicks strike me as cold and arrogant, and French-Canadian even more so. Also, let's not forget that these Canadian cities have a bigger surplus of men, because of a much higher rate of immigration in Canada (mostly male, naturally).

I've also thought about the fact that PUA's Canadian origins (Mystery etc.) are no coincidence. It's because picking up chicks is very hard over there, so those guys really have to resort to a lot of tricks to get anywhere.

Here's another Canadian phenomenon that you may have missed recently: "The Slutwalk" (http://www.slutwalktoronto.com/). It was a huge Canadian parade where the women, basically, told the men to fuck off. I don't want to get into the details/politics of it, but essentially, this is what happens when women have a huge attitude toward men and are pre-disposed against them. That's the kind of stuff that happens in Canada, and I'll take my beloved DC (as difficult as it is) over that kind of feminist/"progressive" crap any day.

[AJ]

(05-30-2011 08:11 PM)AVisitor Wrote:  

Also, let's not forget that these Canadian cities have a bigger surplus of men, because of a much higher rate of immigration in Canada (mostly male, naturally).

I've also thought about the fact that PUA's Canadian origins (Mystery etc.) are no coincidence. It's because picking up chicks is very hard over there, so those guys really have to resort to a lot of tricks to get anywhere.

I couldn't help myself. That's a load of crap right there. Toronto and DC are similar in sex composition Toronto (52/48 F/M) and DC (53/47). Sorry... people spitting nonsense masquerading as fact is just a pet peeve. If you can prove me wrong then I'll gladly eat my words.

I don't think that mystery originating in canada has anything to do the culture. I think its just mystery that made it big. Most of the other PUAs at that time I'm guessing came from the states.

I've lived in Canada/US and I'll chip in my two cents. The reason that people there "seem" colder is everyone is indeed a bit "cliquish". In the US, after high school kids will scatter all across the country whereas in Canada its to several major cities (Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Montreal) but most people opt to stay in their hometown. Therefore for the most part everyone grows up and knows the same people their whole lives and your friends don't really change too much. That being said, the friend bond I find in Canada to be stronger than the states. In the US, its a lot more "every man for themselves" as people get up and move around a lot that being said US I find is a touch more "fake" nice. If you grow up in Canada it's fantastic as you have a huge network of people that you know in every city. If you don't, it's a bit harder.

In terms of the culture - Canadian and American cultures are subtly different. America is more honed on status + money + materialism. Social lines are far more segregated by class/race. If you grow up in Canada you know and will hang out with people of all different races/classes by virtue of the school system and people not moving around a lot. America is a bit different in that regard as people tend to self-segregate a lot if not by race then by socio-economic class.

The asian thing. There are a lot of asians in DC but it's a bit of a different flavor. Canadian immigration laws are laxer than the US and so you'll get a random smattering of families coming in. Asians in America tend to be more monoculture and a bit on the overeducated side - doctor/engineer etc and A LOT MORE status driven... hence why the stereotypes are more prevalent in the US.

If you're moving to DC, remember that most american cities - a sizeable chunk of the population is ghetto something that you don't have to worry about in Toronto.

Toronto has an amazing night life in my opinion. Everything is basically centered on a couple of strips downtown, everything totally walkable, street food everywhere, and best of all you don't get the chance of being shot. You have variety that not many other cities can surpass - persian, indian, italian, eastern european, asian. All with personalities that are very distinct. America to some degree tends to homogenize minorities - hence you'll find guys complaining that although the girl looked asian/indian/european she behaved exactly like an american girl.

I wouldn't want to live in DC for an extended period of time but for school I don't think there's anything to worry about. SHANbangs you'll have a good time.

[Chewbacon]

yeah, I STILL don't know why they say T.O. is the hardest city to pick up in. I think that is more myth. My only two cents is that there is too much diversity, and according to Robert Putnam, that breeds more social distrust than homogenous societies.

[thegmanifesto]

I think Toronto is way better than DC girls wise and swoop wise.

No comparison.

I thought girls were super open and welcoming.

And the guys are extremely docile.

I think most people that rate Toronto poorly are locals from there. But if you are coming from rough and tumble, bareknuckle America hubs, Toronto is a cakewalk.

Way better nightlife in Toronto as well.

I rate DC as a B- city (quite possibly the worst B city out there). Toronto is a strong B.

Toronto in a landslide.

[Moma]

(05-31-2011 09:23 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I think Toronto is way better than DC girls wise and swoop wise.

No comparison.

I thought girls were super open and welcoming.

And the guys are extremely docile.

I think most people that rate Toronto poorly are locals from there. But if you are coming from rough and tumble, bareknuckle America hubs, Toronto is a cakewalk.

Way better nightlife in Toronto as well.

I rate DC as a B- city (quite possibly the worst B city out there). Toronto is a strong B.

Toronto in a landslide.

I have said it many times, Americans will always have an edge in Canada (regardless of the city) due to exotic value. Canadians look up to Americans. I was able to bang a chick last year because I told her I was in the U.S with family. She ascribed that American value to me and I was able to close the deal.

Fellow Torontonians with no family in the US who tend to just travel within Canada or a trip to the Caribbean or something don't get the same exotic value assigned.

The flake value in Toronto is EXTREMELY high. Lizards here are extremely bi-polar and 98 percent of them are running some sort of side hustle with other dudes.

Sometimes you strike and sometimes you don't. The only thing in my belief that ups the percentages are:

1) Get your numbers up thus improving probabilities
2) Increase your value, say you are American if possible.

[Kish]

(05-31-2011 11:21 AM)Moma Wrote:  

The flake value in Toronto is EXTREMELY high. Lizards here are extremely bi-polar and 98 percent of them are running some sort of side hustle with other dudes.

Damn. DC is kinda the same thing. Especially if the girl has any social circle at all. Because the demand for women here is so high even 5s and 6s have options.

[Moma]

(05-31-2011 09:07 AM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

yeah, I STILL don't know why they say T.O. is the hardest city to pick up in. I think that is more myth. My only two cents is that there is too much diversity, and according to Robert Putnam, that breeds more social distrust than homogenous societies.

Dude, I didn't grow up in Toronto and I've never had it so hard before. It almost came to a point where I began to wonder if something was wrong with me.
I had my niche in London, England and I was mainly applying major road game ALL over London and anywhere else in England I could get.
Miami had the same flex no problem.
I came to Toronto and had a lot of mixed messages i.e. having women practically eye rape me and then flaking on a date.

I lived in South Florida before coming to Toronto and when I saw how the Americans went on, scooping fly dymes irrespective of how they look (they tend to be very conscious of looks in London) I thought fcuk it, I'm going to eat Toronto alive.

My game was alpha all the way (courtesy of South London) but I realised that I was burning a lot of vaginal bridges as the women here did not react positively to upfront gaming.

In London, if a lizard doesn't want to get to know you, she will either:
1) Refuse to give her number or
2) Say she has a man

If you really, really insist and you seem reckless and dangerous, then she will give the fake number.

In Toronto, most women give a real number. They just don't answer it or will send endless texts.

A lot of people might say oh it's easy in Toronto but they only tend to game females from their social circle where they've already gotten approval just being of the same social denomination.

Bear in mind that I also game ANY race as I generally find ALL races attractive.
I will game Asian, African, European, Indian, Middle Eastern, I don't give a fcuk.

As said by Avistor, gaming in Toronto is tough if you didn't grow up here.
It required me to switch up my approach and game a lot more ruthlessly and double book lizards so that if one flakes, I have at least two waiting in the sidelines.

I don't think there is a problem in my game because everywhere else I go in the world, shyt opens up like a gaping wound. So the common denominator is, Toronto. That social cliquey thing is a real killer.

[Gmac]

(05-31-2011 11:56 AM)rakishness Wrote:  

(05-31-2011 11:21 AM)Moma Wrote:  

The flake value in Toronto is EXTREMELY high. Lizards here are extremely bi-polar and 98 percent of them are running some sort of side hustle with other dudes.

Damn. DC is kinda the same thing. Especially if the girl has any social circle at all. Because the demand for women here is so high even 5s and 6s have options.

Yeah it's funny. I've got 3 roommates which are a 7 and a 4.5 (haven't met the newest yet), and neither one of them has any problems finding guys. They both basically think of themselves as 9s.

[Hokie30]

(02-21-2011 08:50 PM)emh Wrote:  

I lived in DC for 7 years, 98-04 and 06-08 (never been to Toronto). In my opinion, the women in DC are some of the best looking in the US. Maybe not up to LA or Miami standards, but better than most places. Of course, most people in DC aren't actually from there, they move there for school or a job. And DC has a probably well-deserved reputation as a work first, have fun second type of city.

There are Asian women in DC, though not as many as you'll find on the west coast of the US. And I don't ever remember meeting a Korean, though there are a few Korean restaurants in the DC area.

As for the party scene, in a city the size of DC, I'm sure you can find whatever you're looking for.

I tend to completely disagree with EMH on this one. I have lived in DC for over 22 years and it is one of the worst cities to run game on, has women galore but most of them are not from here and have their shields up 24-7, and quality pales in comparison to Europe or for that matter nearby cities such as Philly. Also, for a city that has 600K residents and a metro area of 8million+ it surprisingly has few happening neighborhoods (adam's morgan, dupont, georgetown are highly overrated and can only appeal to the <25yr old crowd)

[Hokie30]

(05-31-2011 09:23 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I think Toronto is way better than DC girls wise and swoop wise.

No comparison.

I thought girls were super open and welcoming.

And the guys are extremely docile.

I think most people that rate Toronto poorly are locals from there. But if you are coming from rough and tumble, bareknuckle America hubs, Toronto is a cakewalk.

Way better nightlife in Toronto as well.

I rate DC as a B- city (quite possibly the worst B city out there). Toronto is a strong B.

Toronto in a landslide.

Yep, Toronto by TKO in the 6th round (gotta give a tko only not a ko as DC technically has a better ratio). No comparison. I'd say even vs Baltimore DC could barely muster a 12 round split decision.

[beta_plus]

I guess we're all going to have to agree to disagree about DC v. Toronto.

I wish there was some way of weighting how good a city is by how good one's game is. I get the feeling that those here w/top notch game and those w/poor to mediocre game are talking past each other.