[It_is_my_time]

(06-23-2014 12:37 PM)Cyr Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 12:25 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 12:22 PM)Cyr Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 12:15 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 12:12 PM)Moma Wrote:  

This is incorrect. America would not dominate the competition.

You are saying that the USA, who can already play with Germany, Portugal, England, Brazil in head to head competition and at least hold their own would not dominate if we had our best athletes out there, athletes who are quite frankly 3 to 4 levels more athletic in every aspect possible than our current team?

I completely disagree. The article I referenced talked about having Calin Johnson for a goalie, and believed that if he took a few weeks to just learn the position would probably be the best goalie in the world. He is 6'5" with a 46" vertical and damn near perfect hand eye coordination.

If Calvin Johnson spent a few weeks learning the position, he would still be nowhere near the best in the world. The skills required to be good at 'soccer' are not the same as for American sports- although being able to run a 4.5 40 would probably help, he certainly wouldn't be unstoppable.

In football, it is easy for a weaker team to shepherd together a side, and 'hold their own', under good management. However, it is much harder to actually put together an elite side that is in a position to win trophies.

I believe he would be one of the best. I've watched the World Cup, they are great at what they do, but none of those guys is nearly as big or quick or strong as Calvin Johnson. And I doubt any of them have hands that are any better either. He would have to learn the position, where to go and when. He would have to learn how to react properly. But his genetic potential would be not of comparison.

And I am not saying we could just take these guys from other sports and win right now. I am saying that if these guys all played soccer from the age of 4 like in other countries, then we would dominate.

As for Johnson, the reason it is mentioned is because what Johnson already does is close to being a goalie, he already naturally and has worked both to have the skills to be a goalie.

He would possibly be competitive, but I don't think his genetic potential would be that much better. Almost all goalkeepers are 6'4+. Joe Hart is 6'5, Manuel Neuer is 6'4, Thibaut Courtois is 6'6. They aren't as athletic as him, but they are still professional athletes who have trained their whole lives. You can't pull off saves without athleticism and crazy reactions.
Do you honestly think Calvin Johnson could just drop right in and do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjaodPyiEF0

His genetic potential would be above that guy's. Could he just react like that, to a soccer ball after only a few weeks of work, I don't know. It would take work, but with his athletic ability I wouldn't say "no" right away.

I'm just coming from a guy who played basketball his entire life and was okay at it. And then the football athletes showed up. And they could do anything on the basketball against most anyone just due to their athletic ability. The level of athleticism in these guys is just hard to even imagine until you go head to head against them. Lots of those guys playing football could switch over and be good basketball players, just not good enough to make millions at it like they do football.

[scorpion]

It's just silly to say that a bunch of NBA and NFL-sized guys would be soccer gods. There's a lot of money to be made in professional soccer in Europe. How many of the players there are over 6'5" and 220 lbs? Very few. If size was a big advantage in soccer, you would see larger players. But you don't, because size has drawbacks that limit its usefulness in soccer compared to other sports: higher center of gravity, longer legs, more weight to carry around for 80+ minutes.

A U.S. soccer dream team of the best pure American athletes would indeed have a lot of NFL and NBA players on it, but they would mostly be smaller guys: cornerbacks, point guards and slot receivers, guys who are extremely quick at accelerating and changing directions, with very good coordination. The idea that LeBron James would be world class at soccer is just hysterically uninformed. He would have circles run around him by smaller guys like Messi and would be gasping for air after carrying around his huge frame for even 20 minutes.

A Calvin Johnson or LeBron could definitely have the potential to be a ridiculous goalie if they grew up with the sport, but they're too big and muscular to be elite at any of the other positions.

[heavy]

Three reasons:

(1) Team vs Individually...the US is full of individuals more than any other place on Earth. That's why our ancestors moved here.
Soccer -1 in US...Football -1 in US...Bball +1 in US

(2) Playing vs Spectating...US is wealth so spectating vs playing ratio is much higher. NFL is a show like football is a show. A lot of it is strategy. Not that other sports don't have strategy, but stopping play every 4 seconds makes strategy integral to watching the game.
Soccer -1 in US...Football +1 in US...Bball +1 in US

(3) Cost...as has been stated, anyone can play soccer anywhere.
Soccer 0 in US...Football +1 in US...Bball +1 in US

ie Soccer is bigger everywhere else, Football and Basketball are bigger here. I suspect football will decline somewhat as protective mommies have been steering their babies away from it...give it 20 years. Not realizing soccer is one of the worst sports for getting CTE because of headers.

[SheriffBart]

Compare Soccer to my favorite sport, Basketball. They are identical in many ways. A goal at both ends of the rectangular field/court. Dribbling, passing, shooting, etc.

However, in basketball, there are 75-100 scoring instances per game as opposed to 0-10. There are a wide variety of athletes that include some that would be in the circus if not for basketball. The athletes in soccer simply are not as impressive. The ball is almost always in a position to be scored. And there are many other differences that all seem to favor basketball while the games are structurally very similar in object and execution. Why would I enjoy soccer?

Obviously, much of this is personal taste and what I grew up with, but to me soccer is an inferior product. I believe tradition is the only reason it thrives and the fact that all countries have athletes that can play the game since you can be small and short.

[weambulance]

Soccer isn't popular in America because it just isn't a big part of our culture. That's it. Throwing out all this bullshit about how Americans don't appreciate strategy or because it's too subtle or something is just ridiculous. That's like baseball fans saying 90% of the world is mentally deficient because baseball is only really popular in the US, Japan, and the Caribbean. GMAFB.

[puckerman]

There's one big thing that's been left out here. About half of all soccer games end in ties.

AMERICANS HATE TIES.

Soccer has made some inroads because they've created a good tie-braking system.

The Japanese will declare a baseball game a tie after 15 innings. Americans never do that.

[BlurredSevens]

(06-23-2014 10:57 AM)player Wrote:  

- not enough breaks in the play, so TV stations cannot play as many adverts (less of an issue for state-sponsored TV abroad)

This probably has much more to do with it than the "it's not our culture" arguments.

There is much more money to be made broadcasting American Football or Baseball (commercial breaks every 20 seconds) than there is soccer (1 commercial break per game.) Just look at the SuperBowl - it is the largest US sporting event, and every year the "hype" before and after the game is about...the commercials! Americans love to buy shit, so it goes hand in hand.

It's got nothing to do with culture or athleticism, it's all about money! I had never thought of it this way before, but it makes sense to me.

If US advertisers could figure out a way to show more commercials during soccer games, you can damn well be certain it would be the most popular sport here in a matter of months.

[It_is_my_time]

I do have to say it would have been fun to see Barry Sanders grow up playing soccer. Holy cow. That guy had moves on top of moves, even to this day when I see his highlights 25 years later I say "that is not humanly possible".

[draguer]

The idea that you could take someone and train then into an elite level goalkeeper in a few weeks is hilarious, regardless of their natural athleticism.

[weambulance]

(06-23-2014 01:17 PM)BlurredSevens Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 10:57 AM)player Wrote:  

- not enough breaks in the play, so TV stations cannot play as many adverts (less of an issue for state-sponsored TV abroad)

This probably has much more to do with it than the "it's not our culture" arguments.

There is much more money to be made broadcasting American Football or Baseball (commercial breaks every 20 seconds) than there is soccer (1 commercial break per game.) Just look at the SuperBowl - it is the largest US sporting event, and every year the "hype" before and after the game is about...the commercials! Americans love to buy shit, so it goes hand in hand.

It's got nothing to do with culture or athleticism, it's all about money! I had never thought of it this way before, but it makes sense to me.

If US advertisers could figure out a way to show more commercials during soccer games, you can damn well be certain it would be the most popular sport here in a matter of months.

It's not part of our culture for that reason. Most people in America spend their free time glued to the TV. TV is therefore one of the large drivers of American culture.

[Teedub]

Americans just can't handle seeing so many white people that are good at sport!

Curiously, this has been discussed by Steve Sailer here:

http://isteve.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/20-...-race.html

He also mentions that American sports favour black athletes.

Not trying to turn this into a race thead btw.

[speakeasy]

(06-23-2014 10:14 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

Soccer is the most mind-numbingly boring sport to watch second only to curling. Why is the world so silly with it?

If the entire rest of the planet is wild about it and we aren't, I think it's safe to say something is wrong with us. And what's funny is that not only do many Americans find no interest in it, they seem to take pride in not finding any interest in it. The attitude is that "we are Americans, we are above soccer, it's a stupid game for kids." It's almost as if soccer is anti-American. It really is political. The more right-wing and Republican a person is, the more they despise soccer. Who do I see going wild in the bars? Usually urban liberals. I really do think that a large part of the American resistance to soccer is a reaction to the fact that the world loves it and we just want to be contrarians and go it alone. And as someone else said in this thread, you just have to develop a taste for it. My dad is a big sports fan(NBA,NFL), he just started watching the WC and he's now hooked. Says soccer is a great game. Never seen him watch a soccer game in my life till now. It took him 64 years but he's finally acquired the taste for it.

(06-23-2014 01:33 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

Americans just can't handle seeing so many white people that are good at sport!

Curiously, this has been discussed by Steve Sailer here:

http://isteve.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/20-...-race.html

He also mentions that American sports favour black athletes.

Not trying to turn this into a race thead btw.

Just took a look at that Steve Sailor post. That was so completely moronic. Sailor is the ultimate race troll.

[It_is_my_time]

(06-23-2014 01:37 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 10:14 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

Soccer is the most mind-numbingly boring sport to watch second only to curling. Why is the world so silly with it?

If the entire rest of the planet is wild about it and we aren't, I think it's safe to say something is wrong with us. And what's funny is that not only do many Americans find no interest in it, they seem to take pride in not finding any interest in it. The attitude is that "we are Americans, we are above soccer, it's a stupid game for kids." It's almost as if soccer is anti-American. It really is political. The more right-wing and Republican a person is, the more they despise soccer. Who do I see going wild in the bars? Usually urban liberals. I really do think that a large part of the American resistance to soccer is a reaction to the fact that the world loves it and we just want to be contrarians and go it alone. And as someone else said in this thread, you just have to develop a taste for it. My dad is a big sports fan(NBA,NFL), he just started watching the WC and he's now hooked. Says soccer is a great game. Never seen him watch a soccer game in my life till now. It took him 64 years but he's finally acquired the taste for it.

I find the World Cup interesting, because like the Olympics it is only once every 4 years and it is country v. country. Unlike the Olympics you just have one team per country in one sport. So it is pretty intense.

I just wish soccer was a little more popular here so we had better athletes to show case some of the athletic freaks we have in this country. But as football dies out in popularity from becoming just too brutal, maybe soccer can pick up some of those athletes.

And you do have a point, a bunch of the old timers in the USA are very anti-soccer to the point it is almost political.

[Teedub]

I find it interesting when I hear Americans call soccer boring, because whenever I've tried to watch NFL I come to the same conclusion due to all the stopping and starting.

[Moma]

(06-23-2014 01:33 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

Americans just can't handle seeing so many white people that are good at sport!

Curiously, this has been discussed by Steve Sailer here:

http://isteve.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/20-...-race.html

He also mentions that American sports favour black athletes.

Not trying to turn this into a race thead btw.

That was a sweet troll move, bro!

[TonySandos]

Americans are resistant to getting into soccer as of now because we're not top tier in it from the get go. The American public is possibly resistant to it because they're uncomfortable with the chances that it won't be easy to reach the top.

Look at the most claimed teams in basketball and football in the United States.

Lakers, Patriots, Heat as of now. Look at bandwagon popularity in team sport fandom. You'll always have dedicated fans, but most people that are part time enthusiasts, also a sizable portion of merchandise buyers, back winners. The vast majority won't get behind an underdog. The USA ranked high in the first world cup, but America only likes first place winners over consistent placing. I wouldn't consider that very patriotic

[scotian]

In Canada the only boys who play soccer are the ones whose moms won't let them play hockey, pussies.

[img][/img]

[rangman2000]

(06-23-2014 01:40 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 01:37 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 10:14 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

Soccer is the most mind-numbingly boring sport to watch second only to curling. Why is the world so silly with it?

If the entire rest of the planet is wild about it and we aren't, I think it's safe to say something is wrong with us. And what's funny is that not only do many Americans find no interest in it, they seem to take pride in not finding any interest in it. The attitude is that "we are Americans, we are above soccer, it's a stupid game for kids." It's almost as if soccer is anti-American. It really is political. The more right-wing and Republican a person is, the more they despise soccer. Who do I see going wild in the bars? Usually urban liberals. I really do think that a large part of the American resistance to soccer is a reaction to the fact that the world loves it and we just want to be contrarians and go it alone. And as someone else said in this thread, you just have to develop a taste for it. My dad is a big sports fan(NBA,NFL), he just started watching the WC and he's now hooked. Says soccer is a great game. Never seen him watch a soccer game in my life till now. It took him 64 years but he's finally acquired the taste for it.

I find the World Cup interesting, because like the Olympics it is only once every 4 years and it is country v. country. Unlike the Olympics you just have one team per country in one sport. So it is pretty intense.

I just wish soccer was a little more popular here so we had better athletes to show case some of the athletic freaks we have in this country. But as football dies out in popularity from becoming just too brutal, maybe soccer can pick up some of those athletes.

And you do have a point, a bunch of the old timers in the USA are very anti-soccer to the point it is almost political.

Not hating, but the fact you keep pondering how some of the American "athletic freaks" would perform in "soccer" shows you have a poor understanding of the game.

It has been proven countless times over that athleticism is not a prerequisite for being a good player.

Some quick examples off the top of my head from across the last 30+ years.

- Michel Platini
- Diego Maradona
- Zinedine Zidane
- Andrea Pirlo
- Juan Roman Riquelme
- Johan Cruyff

None of those guys were the fastest runners or the highest jumpers but are some of the greatest players of all time.

[TonySandos]

(06-23-2014 02:36 PM)scotian Wrote:  

In Canada the only boys who play soccer are the ones whose moms won't let them play hockey, pussies.

[img][/img]

In all realness from the bottom of my heart, hockey and football are the only sports left that can claim true hardness about themselves.

[rangman2000]

What a lot of people are overlooking is that in the countries where "soccer" is popular it is more than a game.

You are born into supporting a team. Who that team is depends on your location, your economic situation, your politics, your religion, your language, your ethnicity etc.

It is a tribal identification.

It is not a hobby.


To quote the great Bill Shankly: "Some people believe football is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that."

[jmourinho]

Lol, this is the only trophy that matters

[Wutang]

(06-23-2014 01:13 PM)puckerman Wrote:  

There's one big thing that's been left out here. About half of all soccer games end in ties.

AMERICANS HATE TIES.

Soccer has made some inroads because they've created a good tie-braking system.

The Japanese will declare a baseball game a tie after 15 innings. Americans never do that.

Same with MMA. Draws are way more common in Japanese organizations while they are rare in US promotions - even less if you don't count the fights that go to a technical draw because of an injury,

[TonySandos]

Pride Fighting league was way more entertaining than UFC though.

[Mentavious]

Too many sports already to begin with.

If the season was from June-sept then more people would watch (baseball is the only competition) but you can't show it here in the fall/winter where all he 4 major sports are playing.

[Wutang]

(06-23-2014 02:49 PM)rangman2000 Wrote:  

What a lot of people are overlooking is that in the countries where "soccer" is popular it is more than a game.

You are born into supporting a team. Who that team is depends on your location, your economic situation, your politics, your religion, your language, your ethnicity etc.

It is a tribal identification.

It is not a hobby.


To quote the great Bill Shankly: "Some people believe football is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that."

Very very good point.

It's the same for (American) football in the US - both at the college level and the NFL, it's about supporting your school or metro area. People think children are only born into religion/culture but I do think a lot of kids are born into sport teams too. I wasn't born in this county and my parents pretty much never watched any sports when I was growing up and to this day they still they do not follow sports except a bit of basketball when Jeremy Lin fever was at it's height so I've been able to observe this phenemenon as an outsider but still closely since it was all around me.

Think about all those girls you see a sporting events - especially for college sports. Do you think most of them actually have anything but the feintiest idea about what's going on? For them it's not about the tactics or strategy or even about the game itself - it's about the social aspects ie. identifying with other people and feeling a sense of community. Men feel this too though with them the actual game does play a big part.