[Lime]

I wonder to what extent Aaron still stands behind what he says in this video. After having read his book on the decline of the United States, I think his vision about the future economy are too much doom and gloom. Working for a boss? You will get fired and only a few make it to the top. Starting a company? Government will tax you to death.

Is he not a little bit pessimistic on the value of having a lot of money? Especially his notion that growing a big company is foolish because 'government will tax it too heavily' is a little bit too heavy in my opinion. Fact is, there are much more possibilities now for the average person than 200 or 100 years ago.

[Baldwin81]

Aaron’s speaking to what he calls “normal folks…” presumably those younger than 35. He’s speaking to the "average" 80 percent. Not the 20 percent…

The average, under-35, “80 percenter,” is a person without a vision, without a plan. They’re thinking that after school they need to get a job, pay bills, and start “climbing the ladder,” so to speak.

I wouldn’t have used the “don’t try”-language. He underestimates that millennials may take this advice to just do drugs and fuck off.

^ For those who can see through the “don’t try”-language, Aaron is cautioning against allowing yourself to get herded into a rigged corporate game, taking on debt – BOOM you’re 35 and essentially dependent on a corporate gig, with corporate “skills” that don’t necessary translate to entrepreneurship.

Working for others is a great way to get paid to learn. Clary’s telling you that working for others and playing the corporate game is not a long-term solution. Clinical experience dealing with these corporate dudes tells me that past a certain age they turn into half-robot / half-reptile hybrids well-versed in covering their own ass. That shit’s only going to get worse with time.

He’s advising people to: Keep their expenses low, don’t get herded into a rigged, debt-laden game, get some life experience, and make a plan for independent income. Don’t fuss about climbing a ladder that just stops.
I
t’s important to remember that younger RVFers are onto some very non-mainstream shit. Some are so far ahead that they are in their early 20’s, have a plan, are working their ass off, and will start a business before 35.

^ That’s the best way… assuming the plan is good. However, Clarey’s not addressing these people.

[John Michael Kane]

I disagree with his premise. You should always be trying to build wealth, because wealth gives you options. Freedom is enabled by wealth. Also, if you wait too long to make serious money, having a family is much harder, if that is in your future plans. Not to mention, when I look to hire someone, if they are 35 and have showed no ambition in their career, I'll be sure to toss them by the wayside in favor of someone who is more reliable.

[HectorLavoe]

I am going to have read wallstreet playboys and Simon Black to purge my mind of the broke loser advice I just watched in that video.

[rpg]

It seems what this guy is saying is that at 22+ you will get shit on like no other time in life. That is a fact. Take the long game and use the time to shape your opportunities. Stay flexible and able to go where the opportunities are. I would add, stay the hell out of trouble. So many people get fragged by the justice system that when they hit 35 they are unemployable for many good jobs.
I knew young guys that did great jobs on fishing boats, forest fire fighting while young because they were tough and unattached. Use the young age as an advantage.

[Graft]

(06-09-2016 02:30 PM)HectorLavoe Wrote:  

I am going to have read wallstreet playboys and Simon Black to purge my mind of the broke loser advice I just watched in that video.

This guy gets it.

Work hard as soon as you get out of the womb, you never know what could happen. Find your talent early and hone it to perfection. Try to get out of debt and in ownership of a reliable business as soon as possible.

[philosophical_recovery]

Haven't watched the video. Sadly, I have stopped going to CC's blog as well as unsubbed from his videos because he was just too whiny and negative. Particularly, when my worst habits were accentuated by that attitude.

Aaron's first book was something like "Inside the Housing Market Crash," or something like that, which I read ~10 years ago on kindle for a dollar. It was good, as it was an insider look at what happened in the banking industry. From what I remember, he was an economics major, worked part time security on campus, and went on to work at banks where it was clear to him that his managers were idiots and something bad was in the works.

Guess what? In completely unrelated business, in my entire profession, I've run into managers that are idiots. I've also run into general industry trends in management that are idiotic, waste money, and actually result in multimillion dollar failures.

I was moving across the country to escape this situation, going thousands of miles, not knowing anyone in the new town, for quite some time. Each time, I increased my salary, met more women, etc.

It worked, for a while. Then, I ran into another really big idiotic problem. Except, this time, I reacted to it differently. I got sick of going home and drinking. I stopped trying to escape. I realized what things I could change in my own life, how I could react to it. Right after that, I did the 1 year no drinking challenge, picked up a more fun hobby, and got a better job where I didn't have to move across the country. It was very strange switching jobs for more cash and not having to pack up and move 2000 miles, but the feeling has been great since.

But why does that matter?

It seems to me that Aaron never got past the "stick it to your boss" attitude. He went into the banking industry, made it out by blogging, sidework, and writing books, but he never fixed the fundamental problem of being able to work with people. Sometimes, you have to tolerate idiots long enough to let them hang themselves on their own ropes. That screaming negativity comes out negatively in all of his work that I've seen recently. I just don't find it acceptable anymore.

[Crash_Bandicoot]

I'm all about that stable life with an outside life as well in your 20s

Both can be possible, despite all the hate that a stable corporate cubicle life gets in this forum

Consider this as a 20s blueprint:

Pick a large cosmopolitan city (NYC, LA, Chicago, Big European cities if you live outside the US, etc.) and get a job where you can get out by 5 pm. The typical 9-5 job.

Work during the day, and then you have a ton of time to pursue side businesses, go on dates, meet chicks, learn game, volunteer, and most importantly, just experience life and lessons. The stable 9-5 job won't give you a ton of saving like a lot of people here do slaving away in their 20s working 24/7, but hey, at least you'll have time outside of work to work on other things and learn about life.

And all at the same time, you'll be saving some decent $$ from your cubicle job.

I have met a ton of people that slaved away all of their 20s to make bank. But they essentially "started" their life in their late 20s and early 30s, learning things about life and game that I had learned way earlier in my early and mid twenties because I had the time to make the same mistakes earlier in my life.

Then there's the exact opposite kind of dude who parties his 20s away, saves no money, learns a shit ton about life through dates, traveling, etc. but has NO SAVINGS when 30 hits.

Work a stable job, learn about life and get some experiences for 5-7 years, and then once you have enough money saved (or even better, have a side business going), then start living the life you want.

It's all about balance.

[Repo]

How seriously am I supposed to take a guy whose house looks like an episode of hoarders?

[Spectrumwalker]

Guess it depends on your spirit. If you have a restless daydreaming spirit it's good advice. If it's comfort and security that makes you happy then it's bad advice. I ain't quite there yet but maybe 35 is where men start to run low on energy and want to park somewhere. There's always more work than a man can do. Not so with the good times. Personally I'd rather go to my grave remembering the good times then the amount of money I socked away.

Like someone above mentioned. Balance. That's key. Seasonal work is good for that. Work hard to earn your play time, stack beer money, and do your bit for the world. Then when ya get burned out from partying and adventuring...go back to work somewhere and appreciate your freedom all over again. Good to have something to look forward to.

[CleanSlate]

Honestly, I think “balance” is something everyone gives lip service to, but don’t really mean it seriously.

My last company was all about “work-life balance” and all that feel-good stuff. But whenever I tried leaving at 5, I would get an almost imperceptible frown from my boss. As I walked out the door, I could also feel disapproving looks from other workers on their desks.

I even tried coming in at 7 am, but that never matters if your boss comes in at 9. For all he knows, you could have come in at 8:55 am.

Sour grapes? Maybe. But I honestly don’t think companies take work-life balance as seriously as they proclaim to. Good luck finding one that does (other than a oil & gas job with 3-6-9 month rotations).

[lavidaloca]

If you have to start saving at 35 it's going to be incredibly difficult. You are likely on the verge if not already experiencing the high expenditures in life. (Children, daycare, mortgage, car payments, alimony, child support etc.)

The reality is most people save fuck all. They spend everything they make and do so on stuff that provides limited value in terms of increasing their happiness. The obvious American example would be the oversized house and leased cars. That stuff provides limited if any increase in happiness yet people happily spend half their income on them and often more.

If Americans save its usually frivolous amounts that will take 4 decades to amount to anything. I.e. $100 or $200 a month.

One of the big issues is North American work culture doesn't provide for much freedom. You clock in and out, have screw all vacation time unless you work an eternity at the same company and then you still have too little vacation time. We have a society filled with people who rely on pills and junk to keep them slaving away. Part of the issue is the end of the tunnel is so far away for most people. Retire at 65 they say. So slave away 40+ years. Who the fuck can look 40 years in the future and make decisions based on 40 years from now.

Spend on the meaningful stuff that will actually make you happier. Hint: For most people vacations are probably at or close to the top of this list. Cars and McMansions are the killers that will leave you stressed, trapped and tight.

Ignore numbers. If you look at what it costs to "retire in the US" you'll see obscene figures imagining a lifestyle where you take $5,000 a week vacations to Paris. The reality is you probably will have a lot more fun in a place that costs 1/5th to 1/10th as much as a solo travelling male. Heck even as a couple you'll probably have more fun in a lower cost destination. You need to have an idea of what it costs to make you live happy in the place you want to be. (Theres a lot of places that are popular on the forum where people could retire and live on a few hundred thousand or have some base savings and some low stress work / business) Having million(s) saved in those countries will be virtually irrelevant. I suspect a lot of the forum members who have enviable lifes filled with travel and debauchery do so on far less than what you would imagine.

Other scenario is seasonal work. I still till this day thing the guys in the oil field are making the #1 decision in terms of having a great lifestyle. You can save enough money for it to be meaningful by the time you are 35 and you can travel 3-6 months a year to great places.

Everyone wants some sort of balance which involves total simplicity. Work 5 hours a day, 5 days a week, make a good wage etc. Reality is if you want to get ahead your balance will probably be huge periods of work followed by huge down time if you play your cards right.

[NFallin]

This is something that has been weighing heavily on me lately.

Do you get a spot, settle down and bust ass in a career to then pull the plug after 15 years, or keep working 6 months out of the year working decent paying but, thankless jobs in not the best environments, beating the shit out of your sanity and physical well-being.

Professionally by going with the latter you"ll never be successful. But what is success? 1.5mill after 15 years of busted ass and 3 weeks of vacation a year. Or 500k over 20 years working shit jobs, but time to experience life on your own terms.

Damn.

[MongolianAbroad]

Acquire income generating assets.

As passive or as close to it as you can.

Teaching English abroad is not a bad deal in some countries, if I had to start over again at 22 right after college, I'd seriously consider that, drawbacks and all. If you can run a surplus and invest it year after year, you're living a pretty good life, all things considered.

[lavidaloca]

(06-21-2018 12:07 AM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

Acquire income generating assets.

As passive or as close to it as you can.

I agree with this.

Personally I am in the process of purchasing a house in Cuba. The house will cost me less than 5% of my net worth. Probably about 95% of my money is in investments. (Equities, REITS, Indices etc) I then have a small amount of cash as a total portion. That will give me the freedom I want. The typical American though is looking at 90+% of their assets in their house. Heck I bet most are approaching 100%. Instead of working till I die I'll be free later this year.

If I thought like the typical person does I could go buy a 10,000 square foot home in the most expensive area of Cuba and tie up all my assets then bust my balls forever because none of my money is creating money. Instead I'll get a nice normal 2 level home with a 3rd level as a terrace that's centrally located and have enough passive income for life.

I've lived in the homes most people would consider very large (not castles or $20 million palaces) but very big homes almost all my life. Trust me when I say I had just as much fun slumming it in a shitty ass grimy apartment in a rougher area of Havana, Cuba or in my dorm room than I did in homes where each floor is bigger than the average home.

Productive assets give you freedom. It honestly probably doesn't even take that much if you can make some income to supplement it. Many of the older guys here probably could do it just by selling their property.

[lavidaloca]

(06-20-2018 11:32 PM)NFallin Wrote:  

This is something that has been weighing heavily on me lately.

Do you get a spot, settle down and bust ass in a career to then pull the plug after 15 years, or keep working 6 months out of the year working decent paying but, thankless jobs in not the best environments, beating the shit out of your sanity and physical well-being.

Professionally by going with the latter you"ll never be successful. But what is success? 1.5mill after 15 years of busted ass and 3 weeks of vacation a year. Or 500k over 20 years working shit jobs, but time to experience life on your own terms.

Damn.

The problem is the numbers are probably not that pretty. After 15 years in a career barring some exceptional starting salary its very unlikely to have 1.5 million. The compounding time frame is just too low that it would require pretty improbable savings all the way or improbable rates of return. You also are trading your time for money and at that point are probably going to want to have or be close to wanting kids / family. Not worth it if it's going to be 15 years in my opinion. I'd take option two in heart beat unless you have some sort of way in a business or industry to make magnitudes more than typical.

The numbers of savings I've seen posted in the oil thread are magnitudes higher than I see most other professionals I know. (Some business owners obviously due to extremely high incomes save multiples more)

To give you an idea you'd probably have to invest 4-5,000 monthly every month from day 1 to have $1.5 million in 15 years. In order to do that you probably need atleast a 200k salary given you will be in a very high cost of living area to start right away at that type of income. More probable is you have exceptionally high income levels on the back 5 but even then it's pretty unlikely. Even at the VP level big corporations don't pay that extreme. (You are still probably in the low-mid six figures even amongst F500 companies)

[MongolianAbroad]

(06-21-2018 12:26 AM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

Trust me when I say I had just as much fun slumming it in a shitty ass grimy apartment in a rougher area of Havana, Cuba or in my dorm room than I did in homes where each floor is bigger than the average home.

Each year I'm more and more convinced that most men really don't care about stuff. A lot of guys would live in a cardboard box if they could be banging a 10 every day.

When you really think about it, we actually did live in caves or in mud huts for a large part of our existence, and I'm fairly certain guys weren't any less happy. Men tend to acclimate to their surroundings in a positive way, as long as their spot in the social hierarchy is stable and they are comfortable with it.

Women, on the other hand, tend to acclimate to their surroundings in a negative way, as in, no matter what their surroundings are, give it enough time and they'll start bitching about things. Some women are kind and loving, but by and large that's not the case, especially the latest cohorts. I think where most men go wrong is they try to make women happy.

And that's the thing, the minute you try to make a woman happy is the minute you doomed yourself, because a woman can never be happy. At least not in the way a man can be happy.

Once you realize that, it gives you a certain freedom. You'll then work for yourself, to achieve the things you want, and if any girl that you fancy wants to come along for the ride, you say, "come along, I've got space for a passenger," but the minute she starts bitching, there's the door. It's just not worth it. If instead you become the guy that gives in to her demands, you're in for a never-ending slog that only ends when you're broke and useless to her, or dead, whichever comes first.

(06-21-2018 12:26 AM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

Productive assets give you freedom. It honestly probably doesn't even take that much if you can make some income to supplement it. Many of the older guys here probably could do it just by selling their property.

It's the Golden Rule, "He who has the gold makes the rules."

[The Catalyst]

(06-21-2018 12:45 AM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

Each year I'm more and more convinced that most men really don't care about stuff. A lot of guys would live in a cardboard box if they could be banging a 10 every day.

Not that I'm disagreeing, but banging a 10 every day isn't all that much more expensive than rent generally(then again, in NZ rent is ridiculous) and if you're in a real swanky place it's definitely quite a bit cheaper.

No one really is degenerate enough to whoremonger all the time yet they definitely appreciate the higher material quality of life that a better place has.

[MongolianAbroad]

(06-21-2018 01:00 AM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 12:45 AM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

Each year I'm more and more convinced that most men really don't care about stuff. A lot of guys would live in a cardboard box if they could be banging a 10 every day.

Not that I'm disagreeing, but banging a 10 every day isn't all that much more expensive than rent generally(then again, in NZ rent is ridiculous) and if you're in a real swanky place it's definitely quite a bit cheaper.

No one really is degenerate enough to whoremonger all the time yet they definitely appreciate the higher material quality of life that a better place has.

If a girl's a 10 in looks but a whore, then she's a 1 in values, so I'd give her a 5.5 overall (10 looks + 1 values = 11, then 11/2 = 5.5 overall), which is below my minimum.

I get what you're saying, though, it's just whores aren't a part of my life, paid or unpaid. Can't judge, though, if I was disabled, horribly disfigured or mentally/socially handicapped, then it is what it is.

It's just not my thing, so it isn't something I factor in when I make life decisions.

[blck]

I join WWT, DoBA and Gio comments here

This vid bother me a lot, that's some good herd mentality right there with good arguments but promoting it is useless as the majority of advices you can find on the web are from normies to normies.

If you go from one master to another hoping for an amelioration on the job market, life will not be easy.

If you're not as angry as me by wagecucking read this each morning:

[asdfk]

The most important thing I learned from Mystery is to never take advice from men wearing multiple watches.

[BelyyTigr]

(06-03-2014 08:57 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  

'Don't try to work hard in life until you're 35.'

It's 10 minutes but I think it's worth the watch. Although I don't agree with some points, I do agree with others and some of the points he makes are interesting.

Thoughts?

The statement and the notion of it makes me almost vomit.
I haven't watched the vid, but I think I read the blog post on it a while back.

Anyway, sadly there is some sort of sick, warped logic to the statement.
Why? Because people don't like having bosses who are younger than them.

Not that long ago, Britain had lots of people thinking they could retire at 35 or 40.
City traders, property developers and the like. It was actually happening.
Then in the space of a couple of years, super talented young graduates were finding the jobs weren't there. I'm talking streetwise Oxbridge grads and the like who used to get jobs in the City of London(finance etc).

These ambitious young people wound up in the shittest jobs of the lot. They were in call centres and the like. They couldn't get other jobs because the bosses were "oh if I employ you, you'll overtake me in 2 years, why would I want that?"

The truth is many people are vain. They can handle an older boss, but they can't handle a younger one. Thats how Japan used to operate too. And Japan WAS a phenomenal success story. I've seen it. People spending 10 yrs in shite jobs. But by 32, 34, 35 when they are a little fatter, thinner hair, not as "cool", they're finding "dead men's shoes" ie opportunities in their company, or one close by. They're not more ambitious than 10 yrs ago. Their brains and talents have gone to shit to some extent. They're getting jobs purely on seniority and the fact older people don't feel so insecure and jealous about their once youthfulness. Ofcourse the big lie is "you have real life experience now". But in truth the jobs aren't overly skilled and don't need any "real life experience" that they didn't have at 24 ie 10 or 12 years earlier.

Some of these people literally applied for thousands of jobs, which made them very angry with life. But they were never gonna get the jobs anyway. Atleast in those sectors because the market just wasn't there.
The jobs where u CAN progress at a young age tend to be jobs like phone shop manager. Because they only ever employ kids anyway!

Ofcourse the big challenge though is how to get round the insecurity, even stupidity of older plodders and duffers who don't want a younger, more talented or ambitious boss.
My solution was to become my own boss. What are other people's solutions?

[DonnyGately]

If you know the field you want to work in forever, start in that field as young as you can and work your ass off. I worked the hardest in my life from 21-23 on Wall St and that has literally opened every door for me in my life. When I was 32 I landed what many would consider a dream job. Now I can go watch world cup and drink at 2pm because I fucking run shit.

Oh, nice side benefit, I get paid like a boss too. And equity. And options. And bonus. And 24 vacation days [not that i use them all but still]

[DonnyGately]

(06-20-2018 08:49 PM)Crash_Bandicoot Wrote:  

I'm all about that stable life with an outside life as well in your 20s

Both can be possible, despite all the hate that a stable corporate cubicle life gets in this forum

Consider this as a 20s blueprint:

Pick a large cosmopolitan city (NYC, LA, Chicago, Big European cities if you live outside the US, etc.) and get a job where you can get out by 5 pm. The typical 9-5 job.

Work during the day, and then you have a ton of time to pursue side businesses, go on dates, meet chicks, learn game, volunteer, and most importantly, just experience life and lessons.

In Manhattan, most people in their 20s work until 7pm anyway at least if you want to get paid, and people don't go out until like 11pm anyway [unless you're doing dinner obvs]

Happy Hour in summertime is the exception but everyone leaves early for that and bosses are on vaca. But even if you didn't you can prospect a million hot girls in NYC from 10-2am or 4am on weekends, or later.

[Kid Twist]

The other issue is that you have the energy to do shit when you're 21-25, or at the very least, you don't know any better or haven't done all the bullshit, so you aren't tired of it yet.