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A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents
#1

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

The recovery continues:

[Image: cotd-adults-living-with-parents.jpg]

http://www.businessinsider.com/18-34-yea...nts-2014-6

The key takeaway from "Business experts"?

Quote:Quote:

Slok sees this as a bullish force to come in the housing market, characterized by a homeownership rate at a 19-year low.

All those kids living at home must be pent-up demand!

[Image: laugh4.gif]

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#2

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

I think America is reverting to the global mean. This type of arrangement where kids stay home until married is standard in most of the world. Some Latino families I know in the US even stay with the parents after marriage and you'll have like 10 people in one house. It's just financial reality. I'm not trying to defend Obama, but I think it's shortsighted to say this is due to Obama policies when it's been a gradual change that's been happening for many decades. Hidden inflation and stagnant wages for decades on end. It's now coming home to roost. A few generations ago an average income family in a place like Los Angeles could purchase the average house. That's now a pipe dream.

Also, the government can't do anything to "create" jobs in the private sector. That's controlled entirely by supply and demand. When there's demand in the economy, it leads to more hiring. Problem is, now more demand can be met by more productive workers aided by technology as well as offshoring. The conservatives will say that lowering taxes will "create" job. That's bullshit. Lower taxes will mean more profit. It won't mean they will then take that surplus and start hiring more people. All government can really do to create jobs is start new infrastructure projects, new wars or new agencies. And then everyone screams "government is tax and spending!"
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#3

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

Quote: (06-03-2014 06:09 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I think America is reverting to the global mean. This type of arrangement where kids stay home until married is standard in most of the world. Some Latino families I know in the US even stay with the parents after marriage and you'll have like 10 people in one house. It's just financial reality. I'm not trying to defend Obama, but I think it's shortsighted to say this is due to Obama policies when it's been a gradual change that's been happening for many decades. Hidden inflation and stagnant wages for decades on end. It's now coming home to roost. A few generations ago an average income family in a place like Los Angeles could purchase the average house. That's now a pipe dream.

Also, the government can't do anything to "create" jobs in the private sector. That's controlled entirely by supply and demand. When there's demand in the economy, it leads to more hiring. Problem is, now more demand can be met by more productive workers aided by technology as well as offshoring. The conservatives will say that lowering taxes will "create" job. That's bullshit. Lower taxes will mean more profit. It won't mean they will then take that surplus and start hiring more people. All government can really do to create jobs is start new infrastructure projects, new wars or new agencies. And then everyone screams "government is tax and spending!"

In other words, America is reverting to a lower standard of living. You are correct in that it is been happening for decades, and that Obama didn't start this. However, he is guilty of doing more of the same. JFKs America was in a position such that it could squander its wealth through poor policy and ruinous economic ideology and not feel too much of a change, but over time the cracks have widened and are more visible.

It's like the boiling frog experiment in which if you stick a frog in a pot of already boiling water it will jump out immediately, but if you stick it in lukewarm water and raise the temperature a few degrees uniformly over a long period of time, the frog doesn't notice the relative change until it's boiled alive. In the 1950s it was possible to have your standard wife, 2 kids, dog, car and picket fence, plus money for savings and even perhaps a housekeeper on the mans salary alone. Today, that requires two incomes plus maxing out two credit cards on top of the student loan debt both spouses probably have, and you don't even get a house. Most likely you've got an apartment. If you want a house, you have to pile on even more debt. Savings, and children? [Image: icon_lol.gif]

If the change in living standards from 1950 to 2014 took place over 5 or 10 years, there would have been full scale revolution in 1960. Instead the change took 50-60 years, so it was easier to rationalize away. But the erosion still happens. That's the problem with constant inflation. Keynes:

Quote:Quote:

By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth. Those to whom the system brings windfalls, beyond their deserts and even beyond their expectations or desires, become 'profiteers,' who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished, not less than of the proletariat. As the inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery.

Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose.

We talk about all the ills of society today frequently on this board, but for me the economic ills are at the bottom of them all. The biggest one is the quest for inflation at all costs.

Finally, you're right about the only things goverment can do to create jobs. The problem is none of those jobs are desirable. To 'invest' in infrastructure, it has to take money from some part of the economy where it was voluntarily being used and have it involuntarily shifted to other parts of the economy. You don't see the jobs that could have been created if the infrastructure jobs weren't. One of the biggest myths in economics is that WWII ended the Great Depression. Yeah everyone had a job helping the war effort, but food and supplies were rationed on the home front and Americans overseas were getting shot at. It wasn't a great way of life. If the War machine was pumping out home appliances, cars and houses instead of bombs and tanks, the standard of living would have been much better. War is objectively destructive in an economic sense, even though it practically might be the best option. As for new government agencies, those jobs are ultimately jobs that end up making everyone elses' jobs more difficult or more annoying, and perhaps more scarce.
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#4

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

Well, if you look at the plot, the number moved from 29% in 1983 to about 27% from 1986-2006 and up to 31% now.

Assuming the numbers are reliable (I have no idea if they are, probably they involve a good deal of guesswork and extrapolation) that is hardly some sort of catastrophic rise. In fact, it's a quite modest increase.

You have to be careful when looking at plots because they are often scaled in such a way that any change looks big. It's always good to look at what the numbers actually are.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
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#5

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

How many of these guys would drive to West Texas or North Dakota and get a job within 2 weeks that starts off at more than most new college graduates ? Nearly twice that much if you're willing to work a more dangerous one and get drenched in dirt, oil, gas. Its nasty, shitty work but damn man up and save up for a year or two then figure out a new game plan if your retarded degree ain't working.
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#6

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

^
My thoughts exactly, that's plan B for me and several others guys I know.
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#7

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

First of all, hasn't anyone noticed that the FED has been propping up housing prices via QE? If housing prices were allowed to crash back in 2008, instead of the bailouts, then more people would have been able to afford houses.

That's problem #1.

Second, our country is run by big government for big unions and big business. If you aren't part of the cabal you are shit. Keep voting in Democrats guys it's really good for everyone.

Third,

Quote:Quote:

I think America is reverting to the global mean. This type of arrangement where kids stay home until married is standard in most of the world.

Right, because most world governments are run like shit. America is being run like shit right now thus we are going to match the rest of the world.

Quote:Quote:

Also, the government can't do anything to "create" jobs in the private sector.

Right, which is why Gov should GTFO of the private sector. Right now cities across America are moving to ban things like Uber, Lyft, and AirBnB even though the average person can't find a job that pays above $15 an hour. Way too many regulations, too many propping up of failed businesses, etc. All together, the government is choking the life out of the economy.

Quote:Quote:

Well, if you look at the plot, the number moved from 29% in 1983 to about 27% from 1986-2006 and up to 31% now.

Assuming the numbers are reliable (I have no idea if they are, probably they involve a good deal of guesswork and extrapolation) that is hardly some sort of catastrophic rise. In fact, it's a quite modest increase.

Actually, you failed to notice that the x-axis of the graph is scaled to stretch out the years between 2008-2013 and squish together the years of 1983-2007. For Christ's sake, the 90's only have three plot points. If the graph were spaced evenly, the last 5 years would look like the vertical line it actually is.

This is an astronomical increase that has completely outstripped the last 20 years of economy activity. And I have a prediction: this number is going to go way, way up.

Contributor at Return of Kings.  I got banned from twatter, which is run by little bitches and weaklings. You can follow me on Gab.

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#8

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

Living at home doesn't affect a female's dating value, but can truly be the "kiss of death" for a male.
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#9

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

Quote: (06-03-2014 09:45 PM)la_mode Wrote:  

Living at home doesn't affect a female's dating value, but can truly be the "kiss of death" for a male.

yup, that's my biggest inner game issue. 28 and currently living with my mom.
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#10

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

You're also forgetting that Obama has increased the national debt in the last 6 years by astronomical amounts.

Where is all that money going? Why isn't the situation looking any better, or at least setting itself up to look better?

The top 1% are profiting big time off the rest of America.

I see no major infrastructure improvements.(Construction of anything is far more expensive than it used to be).

We have vastly improved technology and yet simple projects cost billions $$. It's all a money sink. PATH recently got a $35 billion budget approved for replacing train cars, fixing a bridge or 2, and doing some general improvements. You're kidding me, right?

For that much money, we should have a new high-speed railway system with various tracks built with state-of-the-art technology to improve the economy in the tri-state area.

It's a joke. Nothing's being done to prepare the workforce for the future economy. Nothing is being done to address the problem that the youth of America are unemployable. There's no creativity or actual national pride. Make money while you can. Whoever's at the top that is.
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#11

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

Quote: (06-03-2014 09:49 PM)JoyStick Wrote:  

Quote: (06-03-2014 09:45 PM)la_mode Wrote:  

Living at home doesn't affect a female's dating value, but can truly be the "kiss of death" for a male.

yup, that's my biggest inner game issue. 28 and currently living with my mom.

Roosh was living with his Dad till nearly 30? Although, he does admit in hindsight that not having an apartment cost him many bangs.

Contributor at Return of Kings.  I got banned from twatter, which is run by little bitches and weaklings. You can follow me on Gab.

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#12

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

All the more reason to make like Roosh and leave America.

In many metropolitan areas, 'where the jobs are' (not counting West TX/ND) rent is sky-high. It's a product of people not retiring to cheaper parts of the country, but rather continuing to work, and the fact that housing prices didn't fall as much as they needed to after '08. Nobody can afford a house, thus the demand for rentals is through the roof, and therefore it costs an arm and a leg to live anywhere halfway decent.

You look beyond your borders, however, things look much more reasonable. Go live abroad, there's not a whole lot left in America for young people.
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#13

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

Quote: (06-03-2014 09:27 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

First of all, hasn't anyone noticed that the FED has been propping up housing prices via QE? If housing prices were allowed to crash back in 2008, instead of the bailouts, then more people would have been able to afford houses.

That's problem #1.

Second, our country is run by big government for big unions and big business. If you aren't part of the cabal you are shit. Keep voting in Democrats guys it's really good for everyone.

Third,

Quote:Quote:

I think America is reverting to the global mean. This type of arrangement where kids stay home until married is standard in most of the world.

Right, because most world governments are run like shit. America is being run like shit right now thus we are going to match the rest of the world.

Quote:Quote:

Also, the government can't do anything to "create" jobs in the private sector.

Right, which is why Gov should GTFO of the private sector. Right now cities across America are moving to ban things like Uber, Lyft, and AirBnB even though the average person can't find a job that pays above $15 an hour. Way too many regulations, too many propping up of failed businesses, etc. All together, the government is choking the life out of the economy.

Quote:Quote:

Well, if you look at the plot, the number moved from 29% in 1983 to about 27% from 1986-2006 and up to 31% now.

Assuming the numbers are reliable (I have no idea if they are, probably they involve a good deal of guesswork and extrapolation) that is hardly some sort of catastrophic rise. In fact, it's a quite modest increase.

Actually, you failed to notice that the x-axis of the graph is scaled to stretch out the years between 2008-2013 and squish together the years of 1983-2007. For Christ's sake, the 90's only have three plot points. If the graph were spaced evenly, the last 5 years would look like the vertical line it actually is.

This is an astronomical increase that has completely outstripped the last 20 years of economy activity. And I have a prediction: this number is going to go way, way up.

[Image: potd.gif]
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#14

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

...
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#15

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

Quote: (06-03-2014 09:27 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:Quote:

Well, if you look at the plot, the number moved from 29% in 1983 to about 27% from 1986-2006 and up to 31% now.

Assuming the numbers are reliable (I have no idea if they are, probably they involve a good deal of guesswork and extrapolation) that is hardly some sort of catastrophic rise. In fact, it's a quite modest increase.

Actually, you failed to notice that the x-axis of the graph is scaled to stretch out the years between 2008-2013 and squish together the years of 1983-2007. For Christ's sake, the 90's only have three plot points. If the graph were spaced evenly, the last 5 years would look like the vertical line it actually is.

This is an astronomical increase that has completely outstripped the last 20 years of economy activity. And I have a prediction: this number is going to go way, way up.

What? First, the x axis looks completely evenly spaced to me. There is a bar for every 3 years.

Second, the plot clearly shows that the number is around 29% in 1983, then around 27% for about 20 years, and then up to about 31% now.

In what world is that an "astronomical" increase? Far more likely is that there is so much noise in the data that no one can even tell if the increase is real.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
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#16

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

Quote: (06-03-2014 10:10 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Quote: (06-03-2014 09:27 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:Quote:

Well, if you look at the plot, the number moved from 29% in 1983 to about 27% from 1986-2006 and up to 31% now.

Assuming the numbers are reliable (I have no idea if they are, probably they involve a good deal of guesswork and extrapolation) that is hardly some sort of catastrophic rise. In fact, it's a quite modest increase.

Actually, you failed to notice that the x-axis of the graph is scaled to stretch out the years between 2008-2013 and squish together the years of 1983-2007. For Christ's sake, the 90's only have three plot points. If the graph were spaced evenly, the last 5 years would look like the vertical line it actually is.

This is an astronomical increase that has completely outstripped the last 20 years of economy activity. And I have a prediction: this number is going to go way, way up.

What? First, the x axis looks completely evenly spaced to me. There is a bar for every 3 years.

Second, the plot clearly shows that the number is around 29% in 1983, then around 27% for about 20 years, and then up to about 31% now.

In what world is that an "astronomical" increase? Far more likely is that there is so much noise in the data that no one can even tell if the increase is real.

Don't look at the years, look at the plot points. The first plot point starts at the total left, but the third-plot point is spaced between 1989 and 1992.

There are 9 plot points but 12 years listed.

Contributor at Return of Kings.  I got banned from twatter, which is run by little bitches and weaklings. You can follow me on Gab.

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#17

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

The number of plot points is not relevant to whether the x axis is uniform or not. The bars that are set for every 3 years show that the axis is scaled uniformly at all times. Also, I don't know how you count 9 plot points -- it seems to me there are more plot points than 3 year bars (in other words, the data is updated more often than every 3 years). It's a bit hard to tell but likely there is a plot point for every year, at least starting from the 90s.

In any case, all of this is secondary to the main point which is that there is no way that a change from 29% to 27% to 31% can be called "astronomical".

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
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#18

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

Quote: (06-03-2014 10:14 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote: (06-03-2014 10:10 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Quote: (06-03-2014 09:27 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:Quote:

Well, if you look at the plot, the number moved from 29% in 1983 to about 27% from 1986-2006 and up to 31% now.

Assuming the numbers are reliable (I have no idea if they are, probably they involve a good deal of guesswork and extrapolation) that is hardly some sort of catastrophic rise. In fact, it's a quite modest increase.

Actually, you failed to notice that the x-axis of the graph is scaled to stretch out the years between 2008-2013 and squish together the years of 1983-2007. For Christ's sake, the 90's only have three plot points. If the graph were spaced evenly, the last 5 years would look like the vertical line it actually is.

This is an astronomical increase that has completely outstripped the last 20 years of economy activity. And I have a prediction: this number is going to go way, way up.

What? First, the x axis looks completely evenly spaced to me. There is a bar for every 3 years.

Second, the plot clearly shows that the number is around 29% in 1983, then around 27% for about 20 years, and then up to about 31% now.

In what world is that an "astronomical" increase? Far more likely is that there is so much noise in the data that no one can even tell if the increase is real.

Don't look at the years, look at the plot points. The first plot point starts at the total left, but the third-plot point is spaced between 1989 and 1992.

There are 9 plot points but 12 years listed.

I have to agree with Lizard of Oz, I don't see what you are trying to say about the plotting of the chart. It looks fine to me.
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#19

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

Quote: (06-03-2014 05:08 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

All those kids living at home must be pent-up demand!

[Image: laugh4.gif]

You would have to be retarded to take out a mortgage in post recession America. The era of buying a bunch of appliances and furniture on a credit card when you don't know if your job will exist 6 months from now is over.
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#20

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

Quote: (06-03-2014 10:24 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

The number of plot points is not relevant to whether the x axis is uniform or not. The bars that are set for every 3 years show that the axis is scaled uniformly at all times. Also, I don't know how you count 9 plot points -- it seems to me there are more plot points than 3 year bars (in other words, the data is updated more often than every 3 years). It's a bit hard to tell but likely there is a plot point for every year, at least starting from the 90s.

Check the little black lines on the bottom. It's squished. However, I think I may be wrong: if it wasn't so squished it would look less vertical than it already is.

Quote:Quote:

In any case, all of this is secondary to the main point which is that there is no way that a change from 29% to 27% to 31% can be called "astronomical".

Yea man, that 4% is millions of people.

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#21

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

Whether or not the graph has been manipulated is not that relevant. The fact remains that the purchasing power of young people has not improved compared to 30 years ago (it has even slightly decreased). The notion of "development" that we are being spoon-fed kind of implies that things are supposed to be getting better.

I recently watched a documentary about how today's politicians lack vision and optimism compared to before (unfortunately not available in English). Instead they are fearmongering about things like terrorism and demographics in order to push through their agendas. Fearmongering always existed in politics but now it's completely taken over - there are no more grandiose projects like going to the moon or solving the energy/environment crisis. Most if not all politicians don't run for office in order to improve the world - they do it for their career, status, money and to end up in the history books.

The documentary also showed how people in the 80's fully expected there to be a 20-hour work week by the year 2000. That was pretty much taken for granted thanks to coming advancements in computers/machines which would increase productivity. And yet here we are 14 years beyond that point and people are still slugging away at 40 hours+ a week. Not to mention most jobs (if you even have a job, that is) are largely redundant (most doctors don't cure patients, most journalists don't inform the public, our school systems don't teach kids anything of value, most lawyers help ensure the implementation of laws that shouldn't even be there in the first place etc).

So 30 years of 40 hours work weeks has resulted in less purchasing power for young people lol.

By reading this forum I've learned that the people who benefit from inflation are the wealthy and the people who own stuff - if you own a peanut factory and peanut prices go up you make more money (credit: WestCoast, I think).
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#22

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

Quote: (06-05-2014 06:29 AM)solo Wrote:  

Whether or not the graph has been manipulated is not that relevant. The fact remains that the purchasing power of young people has not improved compared to 30 years ago (it has even slightly decreased). The notion of "development" that we are being spoon-fed kind of implies that things are supposed to be getting better.

I recently watched a documentary about how today's politicians lack vision and optimism compared to before (unfortunately not available in English). Instead they are fearmongering about things like terrorism and demographics in order to push through their agendas. Fearmongering always existed in politics but now it's completely taken over - there are no more grandiose projects like going to the moon or solving the energy/environment crisis. Most if not all politicians don't run for office in order to improve the world - they do it for their career, status, money and to end up in the history books.

The documentary also showed how people in the 80's fully expected there to be a 20-hour work week by the year 2000. That was pretty much taken for granted thanks to coming advancements in computers/machines which would increase productivity. And yet here we are 14 years beyond that point and people are still slugging away at 40 hours+ a week. Not to mention most jobs (if you even have a job, that is) are largely redundant (most doctors don't cure patients, most journalists don't inform the public, our school systems don't teach kids anything of value, most lawyers help ensure the implementation of laws that shouldn't even be there in the first place etc).

So 30 years of 40 hours work weeks has resulted in less purchasing power for young people lol.

By reading this forum I've learned that the people who benefit from inflation are the wealthy and the people who own stuff - if you own a peanut factory and peanut prices go up you make more money (credit: WestCoast, I think).

The only way to survive is to become an oligarch. Be an owner of something. This whole lease, rent, etc BS is why most of our citizens get ground to dust.

Lose your job? Guess what no more car and home.
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#23

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

Returning to more cohesive family units with different generations living under the same roof isn't such a bad thing for the U.S.

We pride ourselves on our independence, and are critical of peers who live with parents beyond childhood, but a lot of Americans feel lonely and alienated. Foreigners find this facet of our culture odd.

So perhaps we could gain from stronger family ties and learning how to function together under the same roof with other adults. Not to mention that kids staying with their parents into young adulthood will be more likely to take care of those parents when they're old.

Living with a parent during your adult years is challenging, but it also matures your relationship and respect for one another.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
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#24

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

How can you put an 18 year old student and a 34 old person in the same pot?

Maybe this one third is all the 18-23 year olds?
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#25

A Third Of America's 18- To 34-Years-Olds Live With Their Parents

Quote: (06-05-2014 07:08 AM)Mage Wrote:  

How can you put an 18 year old student and a 34 old person in the same pot?

Maybe this one third is all the 18-23 year olds?

If anything, shouldn't the college age 18-22 year olds be biasing the numbers away from living at home? The majority of 4-year college students live in dorms, in my anecdotal experience.
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