[cmrocks]

Hi,

I've recently joined a running group; mostly just to get outside and meet a few new people since I'm new to the city. I only run with them twice a week; Wednesday and Sunday. Wednesday is usually sprints or hill repeats. Sunday is a long, steady distance run as they call it. I'm signed up for a 10 mile race on July 1st. I don't have plans to run any further than that. I'm a reasonably strong runner. Last time I ran 10 km, my time was around 40 minutes.

Anyways, I've always been a traditional heel strike running. Lately, this has been causing me some minor pain in my hips, ankles and knees. I've been reading that I should switch to toe running.

What is the general consensus on this? Worth it? How long does it take to adapt? Any good resources on learning how to do so properly?

[RockHard]

I run off the balls of my feet, not my heels. A natural shoe or 5 fingers will encourage this (no padding under the heels).

It takes a few weeks. I wouldn't run any more than about 5K until you get over the calf soreness.

[cmrocks]

Any tips on how to start?

From looking online, it seems like you have to take shorter strides and lean forward a bit more than usual.

[weambulance]

You should be trying to mid-strike, not heel or toe strike. Running on the balls of your feet is for sprinting, you can't maintain that form in a long distance run efficiently.

We spent quite a lot of time training biomechanics when I was a competitive XC and track runner, because it makes a huge difference in performance and injury prevention. Running in minimalist shoes like Vibram Five Fingers or barefoot is good because it teaches you not to hammer your feet down, but to control your strike. A lot of people slam their feet down hard because they have a cushioned shoe and their form sucks. I recommend incorporating barefoot/minimalist training but still wearing regular running shoes much of the time.

[cooledcannon]

Its definitely better running on your toe/balls of your feet. I dont know how people managed to run on the heel, it seems so inefficient.

I go barefoot all the time, so theres that. Its not standard in NZ though, contrary to popular belief(well, not in the suburb/city im in anyway)

[Ironsun]

Shoe design has a big impact on where your foot strikes. The current consensus is you want land on the fore foot OR the mid foot for shock absorption and general health of foot, knee and joints. Heel striking typically sends that jolt right into the bones and joints.

Shoes play a big role in getting your foot strike squared away. Your shoes should have a low to zero drop, i.e. the difference between the height of the heel and fore foot section of the shoe is zero to 9mm. A lot of shoes are 20+mm difference. I consider anything less then 9mm to be low drop, others may not. Low to zero drop shoes will help to guide you to landing at the mid foot or fore foot.

Check out running warehouse for shoes as they list the drops for most shoes to get an idea on what shoes fit the low drop definition.

This site: Run Blogger has a lot of good info on the subject.

I made the shift from heel striker to mid foot striker. The shoes do make a significant difference and once you get a good pair it is not too hard to do as it felt pretty natural to land more flat footed rather then on the heel. One thing to be aware of, your calves will get a good workout when you shift the strike forward on your foot.

[vinman]

This is a video that I used to help. I have Vibram Five Fingers, and New Balance Minimus.

[Carlos100]

I have been a minimalist runner for about two years. I made the switch when knee and hip pain were getting so bad I could barely walk up stairs anymore. I've been mostly pain-free since switching.

It took me three months to switch. I started with one minute barefoot on the treadmill and increased it by one minute a day. I still did my regular running with traditional shoes (Adidas Supernova Cushions). After awhile, I slowly increased the amount of minimalist running and decreased the amount of heel running until I was completely switched over. I use Vibram Bakila shoes.

My run times have improved since I switched over. The shoes are lighter and it takes less energy for each stride. I think I read somewhere that it is 4% more efficient. That may not sound like much, but over a long run it makes a big difference. I land on the balls of my feet except when I'm running downhill; then I land mid-foot. I push my waist forward and lean more forward when I'm sprinting, otherwise my posture is leaned slightly forward.

During the first year I sometimes had some pain or discomfort in my Achilles tendons, which I mitigated with increased stretching of that muscle. I now rarely have any discomfort. I recommend all runners seriously consider making the switch. Remember to take the transition really slow, as there are some horror stories circulating out there of runners screwing up their feet trying to make the transition too fast.

[Mentavious]

I was seriously about to write a 5 paragraph story on proper running technique for your foot.


Some good points here but just know that you should land mid foot/ fore foot while landing on the outside of your foot at the same time. Next your heel must hit the ground to allow a chillies/calve flexion for propulsion. When you land on the outer half of your foot it will naturally begin to roll inwards because of the force. Next allow your big toe (as your foot will have rolled inwards) to 'push' off. This will allow your foot to act as a single unit.
Don't use your toes to push off like your jumping. The rest comes from your hips(why power cleans are so important in track) and extending it allows for power during the next phase along with stride length.
Again...with your foot front/mid sole to heel. Your Achilles/calves act as a spring.

I was actually a sprinter so take my advice for what it's worth.

[DJ-Matt]

Wow, I'm glad this was brought up. I could never stand to run at all, maybe I was doing it wrong.

[Switch]

(05-20-2014 08:40 PM)Mentavious Wrote:  

I was seriously about to write a 5 paragraph story on proper running technique for your foot.


Some good points here but just know that you should land mid foot/ fore foot while landing on the outside of your foot at the same time. Next your heel must hit the ground to allow a chillies/calve flexion for propulsion. When you land on the outer half of your foot it will naturally begin to roll inwards because of the force. Next allow your big toe (as your foot will have rolled inwards) to 'push' off. This will allow your foot to act as a single unit.
Don't use your toes to push off like your jumping. The rest comes from your hips(why power cleans are so important in track) and extending it allows for power during the next phase along with stride length.
Again...with your foot front/mid sole to heel. Your Achilles/calves act as a spring.

I was actually a sprinter so take my advice for what it's worth.

What were your times sprinting? Just curious. My best time this spring (first time ever running track) in the 100m was 12.5 hand timed. My goal was to go below 12 but had to stop training for reasons. I high-jumped 5'2" also, but had to stop training for the same reasons. My goal was 5'8".

Just to clarify what you are saying: land on ball of your foot (near the toes) and then have your heel hit the ground? Is sprinting different from jogging/running form? When I sprint in spikes i don't think my heels come within 2 inches of the ground, but when jogging medium distance in running shoes I definitely do heel-toe. Should I switch to only toe running for everything?

[Mentavious]

(05-21-2014 05:29 PM)Switch Wrote:  

(05-20-2014 08:40 PM)Mentavious Wrote:  

I was seriously about to write a 5 paragraph story on proper running technique for your foot.


Some good points here but just know that you should land mid foot/ fore foot while landing on the outside of your foot at the same time. Next your heel must hit the ground to allow a chillies/calve flexion for propulsion. When you land on the outer half of your foot it will naturally begin to roll inwards because of the force. Next allow your big toe (as your foot will have rolled inwards) to 'push' off. This will allow your foot to act as a single unit.
Don't use your toes to push off like your jumping. The rest comes from your hips(why power cleans are so important in track) and extending it allows for power during the next phase along with stride length.
Again...with your foot front/mid sole to heel. Your Achilles/calves act as a spring.

I was actually a sprinter so take my advice for what it's worth.

What were your times sprinting? Just curious. My best time this spring (first time ever running track) in the 100m was 12.5 hand timed. My goal was to go below 12 but had to stop training for reasons. I high-jumped 5'2" also, but had to stop training for the same reasons. My goal was 5'8".

Just to clarify what you are saying: land on ball of your foot (near the toes) and then have your heel hit the ground? Is sprinting different from jogging/running form? When I sprint in spikes i don't think my heels come within 2 inches of the ground, but when jogging medium distance in running shoes I definitely do heel-toe. Should I switch to only toe running for everything?

I was never the best 100m dash so my best time in high school was around 11.2
In college I PRed for the 200/400 at 22.5 and 49.1 respectively. I have about 12 inches on you though...I was always too afraid to high jump but I did do a little high jumping.
What I said above was only for long distance. Sprinting is a whole different beast. When you put your heel first you're basically putting the breaks on. If you walk and put your heel down first your leg becomes rigid and allows no flexion of the tendon/calves. You can see by just walking around that your basically stopping movement when you do that. When striking mid foot it's almost natural (or should be) for your heel to hit next.
As for sprinting have you noticed how your shoes curve upwards? Well this helps maintain a rigid foot structure so that when the front of your foot hits the ground you can push yourself off. Your heel will always hit the ground (or get very close to it) even if it's for .0001 that provides flexion and the power you need.
There's other important factors such as body posture, core strength, hip flexion, etc.

Practicing high knees is important. You need your knee to be at a 90 degree angle so you can put as much force into the ground as possible so that when elastic force redirects itself into you then more power is created. Pound that pavement!!

You get most of your power through your hips

I hope I answered your question. I got a little distracted watching basketball.

[Engineer]

How much do you weigh? How high are your arches? Do you pronate or supinate? These might affect your best path forward. I'd be very wary of going from heelstrike to frontfoot strike too quickly. My suggestion is try midfoot for a while and see if your pain issues resolve.

[Engineer]

(05-20-2014 02:04 PM)cmrocks Wrote:  

Hi,

I've recently joined a running group; mostly just to get outside and meet a few new people since I'm new to the city. I only run with them twice a week; Wednesday and Sunday. Wednesday is usually sprints or hill repeats. Sunday is a long, steady distance run as they call it. I'm signed up for a 10 mile race on July 1st. I don't have plans to run any further than that. I'm a reasonably strong runner. Last time I ran 10 km, my time was around 40 minutes.

Anyways, I've always been a traditional heel strike running. Lately, this has been causing me some minor pain in my hips, ankles and knees. I've been reading that I should switch to toe running.

What is the general consensus on this? Worth it? How long does it take to adapt? Any good resources on learning how to do so properly?

Wait a second, your pain started after joining the group - has your mileage gone up more than 10%/week?

[shanked]

I've just started toe-running or mid strike running. Calves are sore but I like it, I feel like it will improve your stand still to sprint take off while your running long distance.

Anyway does anyone here wear orthotics? I was wondering if anyone has used this type of running to slowly move off of having to wear orthotics.

[cascadecombo]

I used to run about 5+ miles daily to supplement my other high school sports. In college I tried to keep this up but started to have some knee pain.

I forget where I heard it from, but I got the idea to try out the Vibrams to encourage running on my toes vs heels. The difference was noticeable from the first day.

During and after the run I had zero pain in my knees. And haven't had any since then. However I was an idiot and did not heed the warnings about only running a a few hundred meters to maybe a kilometer on the first day. I had some sore calves for the next few days.

I had also seen people calling for a class action lawsuit against the company.
https://www.fivefingerssettlement.com/
From what I remember it was a bunch of people crying because they didn't get some kind of magic from wearing the shoe.

I also want to mention, that in general I run faster with these shoes on. The few times buddies want to go running/jogging with my my natural slow pace is one that makes them push their own speed a little. These aren't overweight/out of shape dudes either.

Not to mention, just seeing people run by heel striking now just looks painful. I can't imagine how I could have ran those hundreds or thousands of miles with the heelstrike method before.

[hjs766]

I'm not totally convinced about the whole fivefinger movement, no elite distance runner in the world trains or races in them. This may be due to shoe contracts instead of personal choice however having the choice I'm almost certain that they would choose conventional footwear. Between running on gravelly trails, roads and any course with potential hazards they just aren't feasible for long term injury prevention. I know from an evolutionary standpoint they appear favourable, but this was in a time of no urban infrastructure and very little distance running but simply walking or (slow) jogging followed by sharp bursts of speed in hunting situations. Almost like a fartlek session, not a continuous run.
As for technique, it's optimal to land on the ball of your foot whilst your heel briefly contacts the ground and propels into the next stride. This should facilitate the illusion that you're running on your toes but when you actually contact the ground its the ball of the foot that connects first and the toes that leave last. Provided you're running on your balls, your hips will be higher (but forward) and you'll feel and run taller which providing the right knee lift for the speed required, this will increase stride length. Speed is simply a quotient of stride length(m) divided by stride frequency(s) (distance (m)/ time (s)).
People may say that general running and sprinting technique is different but it isn't, it all comes down to speed which is stride length and stride frequency. The mechanics NEVER change. This is backed up by Alberto Salazar, the head coach of the Nike Oregon Project who trains Olympic stars such as Mo Farah and Galen Rupp to run and effectively train like sprinters... despite being the best in the world over 10, 000m.
Like in game, running has a lot of blue pill rubbish and and lot of purple pillers claiming to be red. When running is red, it is a work of art. The heuristic for running technique and training is: what do the top guys do?
For more information look up Tom Tellez, Dan Pfaff and the late Charlie Francis... Many olympic medals between these coaches.

Anyway, hope that was informative from one runner to another.

Best,
H.

[RexImperator]

If you think about it, running a lot on pavement probably isn't good for you. That's a very hard surface which is a recent invention.

[youngblazer]

I don't do distance running, but I use vibrams when I do sprints on grass fields and it feels great.

[RexImperator]

(07-16-2015 11:13 AM)youngblazer Wrote:  

I don't do distance running, but I use vibrams when I do sprints on grass fields and it feels great.

I do the same.

[birthday cat]

(07-16-2015 03:07 AM)hjs766 Wrote:  

I'm not totally convinced about the whole fivefinger movement, no elite distance runner in the world trains or races in them.

I think some guys train in them but don't race in them. A few years ago I read that Hobie Call trained in minimalist shoes but didn't race in them. He was considered the best obstacle course racer at the time. I think he trained in fivefingers and I remember buying a pair of fivefingers after reading what he wrote. Sorry I don't have a link. I think it was a blog post at http://www.hobiecall.com which doesn't appear to be online now. He said something about minimalist shoes being the best for training but other shoes were faster.

(07-16-2015 06:16 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  

If you think about it, running a lot on pavement probably isn't good for you. That's a very hard surface which is a recent invention.

The theory of "natural" running on pavement doesn't make sense to me since pavement isn't natural. I've tried running on pavement with typical fivefingers and it was hard on my legs.

I don't do a lot of distance running anymore and when I do it is usually on trails but I prefer fivefingers trail shoes on trails or pavement. The trail shoes have 0 drop like other fivefingers but still have a little cushioning so running over rocks or roots doesn't hurt your feet and hard pavement doesn't tear up your legs.

Typical fivefingers or barefoot works for me for sprints on a flat field.