Quote: (05-31-2014 02:42 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:
Quote: (05-31-2014 12:58 PM)Samseau Wrote:
You are absolutely 100% correct however, in that Jewish neo-cons will support Israel over everyone else.
I retract my original statement. Thinking about it more, I was wrong.
Very honorable of you - most people nowadays are too conceited and insecure to publicly change their opinion (except Obama 'evolving' on gay marriage...).
Quote: (05-31-2014 12:58 PM)Samseau Wrote:
Neocons are not the friends of western civilization, especially because of the Jewish influence.
Still, I see neocons as far smaller threats than the socialists and progressives on the left. The neocons can be co-opted into nationalist movements if it means more support for Israel, whereas there is no bargaining with the left.
Personally, I would not go that far. I would say it depends on how neocons are affecting policy. If they are merely promoting a friendly stance towards Israel, that does not extend to foreign invasions supposedly in Israel's interest, then neocons can be a strong contribution to the right, with their money and punditry. The trouble with that is neocons rarely are content with just pro-Israel sentiment. The Republican and Democratic parties are funded by Jews to the tune of 25% and 50% or more, and you can assume some of that is from highly pro-Israel Jews. So there really is no anti-Israel party, there is just "which party is giving Israel more goodies?"
In some ways, neocons are just the latest expression of an old American impulse: "Everyone secretly wants to be an American, we just need to give them the chance." It's foolish, yes, but it's hardly confined to Jewish boomers or even neocons, and it's the source of much of our desire for foreign excursions, for staying in Iraq after we had deposed Hussein. Americans are offended by the idea that the rest of the world doesn't want to follow in its footsteps. All but the most extreme conservatives in America laud America for being a light of progress - that that progress is almost entirely hostile to conservative and traditional values (eg universal franchise, anti-discrimination laws) goes unmentioned.
I am a pro-Israel anti-Zionist. In the mind of the American Jew, Zionism is ethno-nationalism ONLY for the Jews. It can mean nothing else. Ethnostates, states comprised mostly or entirely of one ethnicity, typically the historic resident of the given land, has proven itself to be a solid foundation for peace and order. Yet American Jews, neocon or not, as well as liberals generally, blanch at the prospect of an ethnostate. To be a zionist in America is to say that only the Jews can have an ethnostate, and no one else.
A zionist in Israel is different - from what I've seen among Israelis, at least the right wing zionist types, they aren't reflexively hostile to ethnonationalism, because they haven't grown up with the multiculturalism and anti-Christian sentiment that American Jewry has. Israeli zionists might be skeptical of some ethnostates, but as long as they don't make outright antisemitic statements or aggressive overtures to Israel, they won't really care. Meanwhile, Americans express shock and outrage any time someone somewhere speaks unfavorably of say, homosexuality or "diversity." Israel on the other hand is busy getting chummy with the enemies of its enemies, eg India which just put a Hindu nationalist in power.
Interesting that you'd say that. A good friend of mine, who's a neocon Jew, was ecstatic when Modi (Hindu Nationalist) won. Since I am a Modi supporter he called me up and said he was happy that "India was going to stop supporting the Palestinian Cause". (I doubt that's going to happen)
Neoconservatism is essentially contemporary feudal imperialism. Systematically give power to a few elites and call anyone who doesn't support their plan a socialist. You see a lot of Jewish neocons for 2 reasons -
1. Economic Sense - It makes economic sense for the Jews, who are the wealthiest ethnic group in America, to support an ideology in which the State takes from the middle class and gives to the wealthiest shareholders.
2. Neocon support for Israel - Over the last ~45 years, America has given Israel much military and economic support in exchange for economic access. This has made it easy to invest in Israel. The relatively stable economic and political climate (in comparison to other ME countries) and the need for a stable American anchor in the ME means that Neocons will support Israel. This is very appealing to American Jews, who now have incentive to support Israel.
This support for Israel, paired with rightist tendencies, means that they support Jewish ethno-nationalism in Israel. However, their minorty status in America means that they will never support ethnic political movements here.
The same can be said for many Hindus (including myself), Thais, Koreans, and Eastern Europeans in America. They support ethno-nationalism in their home countries but not in America. Not that such a movement would work - America has no national ethnic identity. Its composed of poor immigrants, refugees and their descendants. Not much pride in any of that.
Now lets look at Russia - a country which is proud of its pre-Soviet history, religion, ethnicity and culture. Their Government supports ethno-nationalism and is somewhat opposed to cultural imperialism. Not easy to enslave such a country. At least Iraq had several warring ethnic groups. And we all know how that turned out. Russia has one dominant ethnic group. Displaying independence and making it hard for American businesses to establish a monopoly makes it a leviathan in a world where there are only 2 others - the USA & China.
This book's summary reflects neocon self-reassurance and fantasy. "At least we can invade them once they become poor". The author is a neocon Jew. He has zero reason to support Russia (Jews have little power compared to Russians, Russia is allied with Syria, a declared foe of Israel).
2/10, Would Not Read